2011 Draft Discussion #2

[cotter101]

Given that WHE is the elite of the elite in terms of endurance, why does he only average 14 disposals a game?

Has all the tools just did not get much of the ball until the end of the season(Correct me if I am wrong.) But he is already famous on Facebook.


http://www.facebook.com/pages/im-no...but-i-know-will-hoskin-elliot/129964480363997

 

[Special88]

Given that WHE is the elite of the elite in terms of endurance, why does he only average 14 disposals a game?

He was pretty inconsistent through that stage. After the champs he started racking up the big numbers in the TAC cup.

Might be one of those players who gets better as the season goes on.

 

[whatboutbob]

Given that WHE is the elite of the elite in terms of endurance, why does he only average 14 disposals a game?

Can't complain about his two finals performances, averaging 20 disposals, 7 marks and 6 tackles.

 

[chopperduck]

I would imagine from what i've read that he would be a little bit like Rich, in that he won't rack up 30 odd touches each game, he is more likely to get 20, but be a lot more dangerous with them. If he is that skilled and does that much when he gets the pill, getting 15-20 touches a game isn't bad.

 

[Nuggo]

We have a lot of short midfielders on our list. With the taking of Zorko I wonder if we would prefer a tall midfielder/s with our early picks.

 

[cotter101]

We have a lot of short midfielders on our list. With the taking of Zorko I wonder if we would prefer a tall midfielder/s with our early picks.

I would think Zorko will play forward.

 

[Nuggo]

I would think Zorko will play forward.

A HFF pushing into the midfielder or a small FF hanging around goals all game?

 

[cotter101]

A HFF pushing into the midfielder or a small FF hanging around goals all game?

We are going to be letting Banfield up the ground more so I would rather him hanging around the goals.

 

[JasRulz63]

We have a lot of short midfielders on our list. With the taking of Zorko I wonder if we would prefer a tall midfielder/s with our early picks.

There's not really many tall midfielders this year though;
WHE (182cm), Buntine (188cm), Sumner (182cm), Adams (181cm), Crozier (184cm), Kavanagh (187cm), Greene (180cm)

Coniglio (183cm) and Tyson (186cm) aren't tall either. All are shorter than Judd (189cm), though a few may grow a bit more.

 

[Nuggo]

We are going to be letting Banfield up the ground more so I would rather him hanging around the goals.

Brings it back to the point that Banfield is also only 183cm so between Rich, Rockliff, Banfield and Bartlett (touch wood) that is the making of a small midfield.

Redden and Polec are both of a good size and so is Lester if he plays through there.

So I think height might play a part in our selection policy.

 

[Nuggo]

There's not really many tall midfielders this year though;
WHE (182cm), Buntine (188cm), Sumner (182cm), Adams (181cm), Crozier (184cm), Kavanagh (187cm), Greene (180cm)

Coniglio (183cm) and Tyson (186cm) aren't tall either. All are shorter than Judd (189cm), though a few may grow a bit more.

I'll punt on these two.

 

[Special88]

There's not really many tall midfielders this year though;
WHE (182cm), Buntine (188cm), Sumner (182cm), Adams (181cm), Crozier (184cm), Kavanagh (187cm), Greene (180cm)

Coniglio (183cm) and Tyson (186cm) aren't tall either. All are shorter than Judd (189cm), though a few may grow a bit more.

These two are the ones that i hope we draft.

Re Buntine - The kid is a ready made player and his decision making will improve us coming out of the backline enormously. It will also allow Hanley/Adcock to push into the midfield to help out Black and co.

Re Kavanagh - If Polec and Bartlett can get regular games next year we'll have plenty of outside mids with elite skills and when Black retires i think we'll be missing that one gun inside mid.

If those two are still available with our picks then i say take that and hope we get a quality KPP with our next pick.

 

[cotter101]

If we went two smalls with 8 & 12 I would be going for Toby Greene with 8 or 12 racks up clearances which is a need for us.

 

[thoselionslads]

We are going to be letting Banfield up the ground more so I would rather him hanging around the goals.

Zorko will no doubt spend a lot of time forward but his best work is done in the midfield. I don't necessarily think Zorko will spend any more or less time up forward than any of our other mids/fwds. In fact, I'm willing to bet he will become a regular fixture in our midfield rotations in the back end of the year.

 

[Hollow Knight]

If we went two smalls with 8 & 12 I would be going for Toby Greene with 8 or 12 racks up clearances which is a need for us.

So does Kavanagh. More upside too IMO.

 

[pauldrc]

From what I've seen/read, Buntine looks like he might be an ideal Drummond replacement (minus the superboot??)....

Am I right in thinking that??

Drummo is such a key player for us....so if that is so, then he would be a must if he's still available....

 

[Dom PC]

Height is over rated in the midfield I think. Not saying having all 175cm players is ok. But the 180-185 range isn't overly short for a midfielder. Pretty sure next year we have Bartlett and Green under 180cm... adding another 180-183cm player wouldn't hurt.


Kavanagh is the one I'm warming to at 8. Most seem to say he has huge potential and has been injured this year meaning he hasn't been at his best and is still considered top 10 worthy.

Adam Tomlinson anyone think he will be taken earlier than pick 30 ?

 

[JasRulz63]

Emma Quayle tends to think Tomlinson will go quite high

 

[Hollow Knight]

Height is over rated in the midfield I think. Not saying having all 175cm players is ok. But the 180-185 range isn't overly short for a midfielder. Pretty sure next year we have Bartlett and Green under 180cm... adding another 180-183cm player wouldn't hurt.

Don't forget Zorko at 175cm.

 

[Hollow Knight]

From what I've seen/read, Buntine looks like he might be an ideal Drummond replacement (minus the superboot??)....

Am I right in thinking that??

Drummo is such a key player for us....so if that is so, then he would be a must if he's still available....

Docherty is probably the Drummo clone in this draft. Superboot and all.

Buntine is a classier playmaker with good skills but doesn't have the epic superboot thing. More comparable to a Gibbs/Heppell/Enright.

 

[irel]

There's not really many tall midfielders this year though;

There is some realy nice tall midfield talent among this year's draftees. Kavanagh, Tyson already mentioned, Seb Ross, Daniel Markworth, Jackson Merrett, Brandon Ah Chee, Eliot Yeo in the next tear. There are others just a bit of trawling needs to be done.

 

[JasRulz63]

There is some realy nice tall midfield talent among this year's draftees. Kavanagh, Tyson already mentioned, Seb Ross, Daniel Markworth, Jackson Merrett, Brandon Ah Chee, Eliot Yeo in the next tear. There are others just a bit of trawling needs to be done.

Yeah I was thinking more our early potential picks (in response to Nuggo) from the general BF group think, don't really know enough about the draftees that have been rumoured in the next tier.

 

[jjami15]

I feel we will get a good spread of players. First two picks will obviously dictate what we do later on. Pick 30 and 47 i feel will be used for a ruckman. Picks 8 and 12 there are a few ways to go.
Scenario 1 = Mid (8) - KPP (12)
Scenario 2 = KPP (8) - Mid (12)
Scenario 3 = KPP (8) - KPP (12)
I have no real leaning one way or the other but do not believe that we should go for mid + mid if that was to occur. Do prefer Scenario 1 or 2. I do include Buntine as a mid eventhough he is more of HBP. In a perfect world - Sumner/Kav/Buntine (8) -Tomlinson/McInnes/Elton(12) -If Tomlinson/McInnes/Elton was to fall to pick (30) jump all over it or another KPP -Dobosz/Frost/Kersten - Pick 47 either a ruck or an outside mid such as Jackson Merrett, Brandon Ah Chee, Eliot Yeo. If we were to take the best two KPP's at 8 and 12 i could live with that aswell.

 

[Quigley]

The BF Phantom is underway on the Draft and Trading board. I have taken Sumner with my first pick and my write up is below. I really like this kid as you may work out from my write up.

Liam Sumner
DOB 16/8/93 Ht 178 Wt 69

Its often very easy for us amateurs to overrate players like Sumner. He is not a big possession winner at any level and he flashes a few great plays at the Champs and everyone jumps onboard and talks him up to unrealistic levels. A lot of that applies to Sumner but unlike a lot of such players (e.g. Blease) has consistently shown the ability to amaze and has worked hard to improve his game in areas that need work. He does need to improve his inside work and other aspects of his game but he realises that and has worked hard all year to do just that and he has improved.

The thing which sets Sumner apart from the crowd at under 18 level is the pace at which he plays the game. He attacks the ball or man at full pace and he executes. Juniors often struggle when they step up to the next level and are forced to do things quicker and at full pace. Sumner should not have much trouble adapting as he already does just that. He runs to collect at pace, kicks on the run at full pace, tackles at pace and generally just attacks the game at pace. He is there and gone before the opposition can react and this provides enormous X factor to his game.

The comparison is regularly made to Dale Thomas and I think the comparison stands up very well. Sumner may not ever be the forward that Thomas was but they will be pretty similar in the way they play through the middle of the ground. It took Thomas a few years to work out what he needed to do to become an elite midfielder and I think it may take Sumner a little while to get there as well but I think he already knows what he needs to work on and has started doing it.

The two major areas physically which he needs work are his weight and his endurance. He is never going to be a particularly solid guy but give him a year in the system and the weight issue should take care of itself. His endurance base is something which he has improved a great deal this year but he still needs to improve a fair bit more. Improving his endurance will enable him to play more time, get to more contests and generally just influence the game more often. His team is going to want the ball in his hands and improving his endurance is a key to this happening. He tested probably a little better for endurance at the Combine than I expected (scraping into the top 30% in the beep and 3km) which shows the work that he has been doing but he has a way to go to get it up to where it needs to be for the AFL.

On the park its really noticeable how well he runs the lines and how well he reads when to run them. He seems to innately know where to run in traffic and the defenses often just seem to open up in front of him. He is has a nice balanced running style and he has very good pace and evasiveness as well. He ran a 2.90 in the 20m and finished in the top 10 in the repeat sprint which showed that he times fast as well as plays fast. He has a very quick first couple of steps and has top shelf agility (top 20%) that makes him very difficult to tackle and on the other side of the coin allows him to make a lot of tackles himself. Tackling is something else he has improved a lot over the course of the year. Being a predominantly outside player he was not a big tackler but after being told by his coach to focus on it more he has improved a great deal and is now very dangerous if the ball is in his area. He closes the man down very quickly and pins the arms well.

Sumner is a very thin guy at the moment but he has pretty decent core strength. He holds his feet well in contests and has exceptional balance. He also recovers very quickly when he leaves his feet or the ball goes to ground and this can be a major advantage for him. With the ball on the ground he has nice clean hands and will collect and dispose of the ball cleanly and with pace. He has done more inside work as the year has progressed and he is capable inside although he is used most often as a receiver. As he develops physically and he works on it more I see no reason why he could not develop an inside game much in the way that Thomas has.

One of the features of his game is his delivery into the forward line. His ability to weight inch perfect passes to his forwards at full pace is exceptional. His kicks may lack a little zip but they usually put exactly where the forward wants it or needs it so that the defender can’t get to it. He may also be the best kick in this draft off his non-preferred. He is a capable goal kicker although he does perhaps have a bit of a highish release. He has kicked some bags in the TAC this year and gets up into the air well to mark (he with third in the running jump at Camp with 88cm) or on the lead. Overhead his hands are solid but not fantastic.

Sumner is not someone who has been an elite player throughout his junior career and so been gifted an armchair ride. He has athletic talents but he has had to constantly work at his game to get it to the stage where it is at. He seems to take feedback well and works hard to correct deficiencies in his game. What he also does better than most of the guys who have been the “star” all the way along is work for his teammates. He blocks, shepherds, covers and does all the other little 1%ers that are often the difference between a winning team at AFL level and the also rans. Overall I like Sumner a lot and think he has the potential to be an elite player at AFL level. Whether he has the ability to win more of the ball is the only thing stopping me from putting him higher in my mock.

 

[jjami15]

The BF Phantom is underway on the Draft and Trading board. I have taken Sumner with my first pick and my write up is below. I really like this kid as you may work out from my write up.

Liam Sumner
DOB 16/8/93 Ht 178 Wt 69

Whether he has the ability to win more of the ball is the only thing stopping me from putting him higher in my mock.

No, No, 8's fine thanks. Just hope Kerr and Hadley are on the same page