Mega Thread 2012 AFL Fixture - all comments re the fixture in this thread pls

[PykeDream]

What I find ridiculous is that a team that travels 10 times, from WA has 7 6 day breaks then an incredibly tough run home.

AFL trying to bury us before the finals start.

That's what happens when you're a successful top four team. Can't expect to get the same draw as you did in the 2011 season every year.

 

[Dan26]

What I find ridiculous is that a team that travels 10 times, from WA has 7 6 day breaks then an incredibly tough run home.

AFL trying to bury us before the finals start.

Why do people insist that the AFL is out to get their club?

For the last few years I've heard Collingwood was deliberately favoured. Now the AFL wants them to lose. A conspiracy.

Now this year I've heard that North Melbourne are favoured in a conspiracy. Deliberately. Of course, the AFL didn't want them to win when they had a hard draw, but now they do want them to win, confusingly.

And Melbourne are being favoured by the draw in a conspiracy, because the AFL wants them to win. Deliberately. Of course, they didn't want them to win when they had a hard draw, but now they do want them to win confusingly

And Hawthorn are being screwed by the AFL, via the draw. Deliberately of course. The AFL hates Hawthorn, apparently. Only Hawthorn supporters think this is true.

And now West Coast is being deliberately diadvantaged by a conspiracy.

I think there is a conspiracy against all 18 clubs. The AFL wants every club to lose, and everyone to miss the finals.

 

[Kimbo]

We have had more scoring shots than North Melbourne in the last 5 games we have played against them.

We have won 2, lost three, but should have won all 5.

We'll beat North easily. We've had the wood on them for 5 years without being able to get the results that our dominaiton has warranted.

Bizarre. So, you've been so dominant that you've won 2/5 games? The lengths some fans go to to support their fantasies astounds me. I wouldn't be surprised if you're embarrassing your fellow Bomber posters.

Does this apply to any game where a team loses despite having more scoring shots? They 'dominated'? At the very least I demand a replay of the 1998 GF, which was clearly a draw (apart from the fact Adelaide kicked more goals).

 

[Kimbo]

It is an outrage that Hawthorn only play 3 games away interstate.

Over a 100,000 civilian casualties in Iraq since 9/11 was an outrage. Global inaction on climate change is an outrage. Hawthorn playing only 3 games interstate is a quirk of a football code fixture. Perspective.

 

[Dan26]

Bizarre. So, you've been so dominant that you've won 2/5 games? The lengths some fans go to to support their fantasies astounds me. I'm sure you're probably embarrassing your fellow Bomber posters.

Does this apply to any game where a team loses despite having more scoring shots? They 'dominated'? At the very least I demand a replay of the 1998 GF, which was clearly a draw (apart from the fact Adelaide kicked more goals).

OK, fair enough, we havn't "dominated" North Melbourne, but I think we've had the better of them in general play without getting the end result every time (although we've still won 2 of those 5 games that we've had more scoring shots)

But, as I asked the other poster, can you remember the last time North Melbourne dominated Essendon in a match and won relatively easily winning most or all of the stats? You can't think of a match can you? Be honest. You can't think of one off the top of your head can you? I couldn't either! That's because you have to go back to 2005.

 

[Kimbo]

But, as I asked the other poster, can you remember the last time North Melbourne dominated Essendon in a match and won relatively easily winning most or all of the stats? You can't think of a match can you? Be honest. You can't think of one off the top of your head can you? I couldn't either! That's because you have to go back to 2005.

I haven't made any claims one way or the other. The last few games have been good contests and we've won most of them. I reckon Rd 1 will also be a cracker.

 

[PieEyedLad]

Pretty tough draw from us, but I'm not complaining. I reckon a pass mark would be 16-18 wins. Sure we play the entire top 8 from this year each twice but a lot of them we generally don't struggle against.

I've spent a couple hours today making an actual full 2012 fixture on a document, so I don't have to keep clicking links and going onto the AFL website if I want to view it. If anyone wants to use it for their fridge or anything, or just have a hard copy on their computer, just download this file, it's only about 350kb.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=LI51JYU2

 

[Kwality]

Anyone done an analysis club by club of the 6 day breaks & whether they include travel?
If so, pls table.

 

[vonn]

I'm not really sure why the Sydney draw on people's hard to easy ladders are 5th. Barring the last months it's pretty decent.

 

[db swannie]

Pretty tough draw from us, but I'm not complaining. I reckon a pass mark would be 16-18 wins. Sure we play the entire top 8 from this year each twice but a lot of them we generally don't struggle against.

I've spent a couple hours today making an actual full 2012 fixture on a document, so I don't have to keep clicking links and going onto the AFL website if I want to view it. If anyone wants to use it for their fridge or anything, or just have a hard copy on their computer, just download this file, it's only about 350kb.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=LI51JYU2

Not quite. You play us once, in Sydney. I'm not sure about the other sides. I know you play the top 5 twice.

 

[PieEyedLad]

Not quite. You play us once, in Sydney. I'm not sure about the other sides. I know you play the top 5 twice.

Ah, so we do.

Dare I say though that given our record against you that's a plus for you guys?

 

[whats_at_stake]

This may have been covered before but how exactly is Hawthorn getting away with only travelling for three away games? If they choose to sell off home games then they should not get any special consideration.

 

[MightyHawks]

This may have been covered before but how exactly is Hawthorn getting away with only travelling for three away games? If they choose to sell off home games then they should not get any special consideration.

Well we went interstate 5 times last year plus the Tasmania matches.

Most years we've had more away matches interstate than either Collingwood or Essendon.

Are you in favour of a complete random fixture?

Or do you need one where everything is completely equal?

 

[Dan26]

Well we went interstate 5 times last year plus the Tasmania matches.

Most years we've had more away matches interstate than either Collingwood or Essendon.

Are you in favour of a complete random fixture?

Or do you need one where everything is completely equal?

Why are you using the fact that you travelled 5 times last year as a justification for only travelling 3 times this year?

5 times is a perfectly normal amount to travel for last years 17-team comp with 7 non-Vic teams.

My team, for example travelled 5 times last year.

So, should I use Essendon's "5 travel trips in 2011" to justify that we deserve to only travel 3 times in 2012?

With 8 non-Vic teams, 5-6 travel games should be the norm.

That means Hawthorn, should really be having either 9 or 10 travel games in 2012 (including your 4 tassy games), if everything was fair, right?

 

[damuzzdu]

Pretty tough draw from us, but I'm not complaining. I reckon a pass mark would be 16-18 wins. Sure we play the entire top 8 from this year each twice but a lot of them we generally don't struggle against.

I've spent a couple hours today making an actual full 2012 fixture on a document, so I don't have to keep clicking links and going onto the AFL website if I want to view it. If anyone wants to use it for their fridge or anything, or just have a hard copy on their computer, just download this file, it's only about 350kb.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=LI51JYU2

You could have save yrself the trouble there is a PDF link on the AFL site which is downloaded and can be saved...you just need to look as it is not highly visable.

Go here...

http://www.afl.com.au/fixtures/tabid/10586/default.aspx..

And under "By venue" is this -------->>

(All times shown are local) | TV & Radio | Venues | Full season PDF

The bolded PDF is a downloadable document.

or just click this...

http://www.afl.com.au/portals/0/afl_docs/fixture_document.pdf

I have also placed one here...

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=S8QISKC8

 

[Prudster]

This may have been covered before but how exactly is Hawthorn getting away with only travelling for three away games? If they choose to sell off home games then they should not get any special consideration.

How exactly do Hawthorn only get 3 home games against Victorian clubs? As has been said before most Hawks fans are happy to travel 5 times if it means 2 extra home games against Victorian clubs.

 

[db swannie]

Ah, so we do.

Dare I say though that given our record against you that's a plus for you guys?

Dare I say you don't like being corrected.

 

[Perry Pie]

Originally Posted by whats_at_stake
This may have been covered before but how exactly is Hawthorn getting away with only travelling for three away games? If they choose to sell off home games then they should not get any special consideration.

How exactly do Hawthorn only get 3 home games against Victorian clubs? As has been said before most Hawks fans are happy to travel 5 times if it means 2 extra home games against Victorian clubs.

You are both right - the Hawthorn fixture is totally wrong - it the worst example of the AFL messing with fixtures I can recall.

Hawthorn should have a fair share of victorian and non-victorian oponents through the season, home and away. (Depending on how a fixture is structured that is between 4 and 6 home and away games per season for each Victorian club). (maybe the AFL wants them to relocate?).

The selling of Hawks home games to Tassie (and now North too) should not come into who they play at all, but it seems to have done so in this case.

This nonsense will continue as long as the AFL refuses to put in place a transparent system for running the fixtures for each season. It is possible to put an honest transparent system in place, it just takes some will on the part of the AFL and the clubs to do it. (how you run a fairer system has been discussed in other threads).

 

[Baz_hawk]

We got pretty lucky with travel, its a pretty skewed draw in that way for us. Our Melbourne home games are mostly interstate teams which means that they wont draw in crowds and the club will lose out financially. From a business point of view, I'm sure the club would have prefered an extra 2 trips interstate and perhaps 2 home games against Essendon and Carlton.

At the end of the day though, the draw is never going to please anyone. I'm sure the 3 travels will be identified by the AFL from the feedback on social media sites and teams that are seen to have got the better end will be dealt extra for 2013. As I said though, footy clubs are businesses and the draw for the Hawks from a financial view would probably be the worst of any Vic club.

 

[Perry Pie]

We got pretty lucky with travel, its a pretty skewed draw in that way for us. ...............

It is not luck - it is designed by the AFL to meet its own objectives (maybe with the complicity of Hawks management). Perhaps the Hawks agreed to less travelling in exchange for more games in Melbourne against non-Vic sides - who knows!? A secret deal? Who agreed to reducing the Hawks away travel requirement below that of any other club and why?

 

[Guardian Hawk]

It also is not lucky as it disadvantages us both in a financial sense (considerably) and in a fixture difficulty sense. As i said before, more likely to win travelling to play bottom four teams than playing Geelong, Collingwood, etc at home. 'Travelling is more tiring' is a non-issue as the trip to Lauceston takes as long as Adelaide and only 20 mins difference to Sydney.

 

[Dan26]

It also is not lucky as it disadvantages us both in a financial sense (considerably) and in a fixture difficulty sense.

Rubbish.

How could it disadvantage you in a "fiuxture difficulty" sense. Of your 11 home matches, 8 of them are against the travelling non-Victorian teams, which mean you have a legitimate advantage in 8 of your 11 home matches.

Hawthorn's home matches
8 versus travelling opponents........................ 8 ADVANTAGES
3 neutral, versus Victorian teams at the MCG.....3 NEUTRAL

Hawthorn's away matches
3 away travel games........................ ............3 DISADVANTAGES
8 neutral, versus Vic teams at MCG or Etihad.....8 NEUTRAL

ALL UP
- 8 "advantage" games
- 3 "disadvantage" games
- 11 neutral
Net Result +5 advantage games

That means if all 18 teams were equal and therefore all 18 teams were 11-11 teams by talent, Hawthorn (assuming they were an 11-11 team by talent) would win 50% of their 11 neutral games (5.5 wins), win all their "advantage" games (8 wins) and lose all their disadvantage games (0 wins) and finish with 13.5 wins and 8.5 losses.

So, Hawthorns fixture, in a football sense, has gifted them 2.5 wins on top of what an average team would expect to win.

Hawthorn effectively start 2012 with 10 premiership points to everyone else's nil.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Not how it works Dan.

Sure, statistically if all teams are completely equal, you're spot on.

BUT (and this is the whole point of my post) all teams are NOT equal (and never will be).

.By your analysis, If Essendon were going into Round 23 needing a win and small percentage boost to play finals...you would prefer to play Geelong at Skilled than GWS in Sydney (Of course you wouldn't).

A draw's difficulty is far more dependanr on who you play twice.

Our double-ups come against Geelong, Collingwood, West Coast, Sydney and Port (playing all interstate finalists away).

By your reckoning, the AFL should have made it harder for Hawthorn by making them play an extra game against GC? or GWS? or Brisbane? or Adelaide? away. I, and most supporters, would prefer to play any of those sides than doubling up against the Grand Finalists.

 

[Dan26]

Not how it works Dan.

Sure, statistically if all teams are completely equal, you're spot on.

BUT (and this is the whole point of my post) all teams are NOT equal (and never will be).

.By your analysis, If Essendon were going into Round 23 needing a win and small percentage boost to play finals...you would prefer to play Geelong at Skilled than GWS in Sydney (Of course you wouldn't).

A draw's difficulty is far more dependanr on who you play twice.

Our double-ups come against Geelong, Collingwood, West Coast, Sydney and Port (playing all interstate finalists away).

By your reckoning, the AFL should have made it harder for Hawthorn by making them play an extra game against GC? or GWS? or Brisbane? or Adelaide? away. I, and most supporters, would prefer to play any of those sides than doubling up against the Grand Finalists.

The reality is you get 5 MORE games with an advanatge than you do with a disadvantage

Now you're correct, not all things are equal. We know this.

But, putting that aside, you have a dream draw football wise that should, in theory, give you 2-3 wins more than what you would get with a "normal draw."

I've factored in 50-50 games against Geelong and Collingwood at the MCG counting as "neutral games." They are tough.... but a good team like Hawthorn should treat them as 50-50.

Football-wise, you have a fantastic draw.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

I know what you're trying to say Dan....
but we may have to agree to disagree because as I see it you're basically saying "if you disregard reality, then mathematical analysis says..."

E.g. Richmond play Geelong at the MCG and the Darwin under 9's in Darwin. By your 'formula', Richmond have it easir against Geelong (the only 50/50 contest). Quit simply, not how it works.

Or, if you prefer a more likely scenario:

1. Nth vs Geel MCG or 1. GWS vs Nth SCG
2. Coll vs Nth MCG 2. Nth v Rich MCG
3. Nth vs Haw MCG 3. Pt A v Nth (Ade)
4. WCE vs Nth Patt 4. GCS v Nth (Met)

According to your 'analysis', North's draw on the left is a dream draw and the one on the right is an absolute nightmare fixture. Yet, if I were a North supportr I would be hoping to win 1-2 matches and not get blown away in the first fixture and be unhappy if we didn't win all four with a healthy percentage in the second fixture.