2014 Draft Discussion

[rusty08]

I'd be interested to hear some thoughts on Freeman.How's he coming along? I've noticed when people are talking about our future forward line, he doesn't seem to get a look in. Only assuming here, but if we were to draft one of Wright and Mccartin, is Freeman a similar type, thinking the stay at home forward?

 

[Ironmonger]

The problem is that dollars and opportunity aren't the only factors. We're arguably dead last on the ladder in terms of desirable football destinations. That can't be countered by bigger contracts.

Which just goes to highlight that ultimately fixing our structural problems are a lot more important right now than our drafting strategy.

 

[POBT]

Which just goes to highlight that ultimately fixing our structural problems are a lot more important right now than our drafting strategy.

I think all our woes are inter-connected that we almost need a circuit breaker. Otherwise, poor performance on field will affect off field performance, which will affect football expenditure, which will hinder development, retention and recruitment which will result in worsening on field performance....


A circuit breaker that I think could have a big impact is if the last two draft cohorts really buy into the club and sign extended deals. If the group combines with the 2008(ish) group, then we've got a solid core of people who are committed to the club.

That could result in the sort of cultural change that was engineered at Port. I get the impression that Leppa is the right bloke to cultivate that sort of sense of belonging but the players still need to buy in.

 

[chopperduck]

It is interesting having all these 200cm forwards. I dont think weve seen what they can really do yet. With players being brought in from other sports, and going after athletes, we havent yet seen this new 200cm KPF really come of age yet. Tippett is probably the closest example.

Usually when you get to that hieght, you arent big muscle wise. Those frames are usually drawn to basketball. I think this is helping the overall agility and coordination of these giants, as opposed to 200cm players 10 years ago who would be unco rucks at best. However they still arent big and strong, so you end up with super tall more agile KPF but ones that arent really great at crashing packs or taking contested marks.

Its not easy getting muscle on those frames either, but Wright is at least already over 100kg.

 

[Ironmonger]

I think all our woes are inter-connected that we almost need a circuit breaker. Otherwise, poor performance on field will affect off field performance, which will affect football expenditure, which will hinder development, retention and recruitment which will result in worsening on field performance....


A circuit breaker that I think could have a big impact is if the last two draft cohorts really buy into the club and sign extended deals. If the group combines with the 2008(ish) group, then we've got a solid core of people who are committed to the club.

That could result in the sort of cultural change that was engineered at Port. I get the impression that Leppa is the right bloke to cultivate that sort of sense of belonging but the players still need to buy in.

Is that a circuit breaker though? We actually had quite a few relatively young players re-sign at the beginning of last year, and lay what seemed to be the beginnings of a new culture with buy-in from a lot of the players.

That sense only lasted a few months. Even if we get the current crop of draftees to re-sign this time around, as soon as our standards slip a little, and they slip at every club from time to time, then we're back in the same position.

 

[Kevvo]

That could result in the sort of cultural change that was engineered at Port. I get the impression that Leppa is the right bloke to cultivate that sort of sense of belonging but the players still need to buy in.

I think this is an interesting point. I also think that some institutional recognition of our players (Rocky in AA etc, rising star for one of the kids), could just formalise that sense that we have some gun players and are building towards something. Doubly so given most journalists seem to be profoundly (EDIT) influenced by those crude measures.

I don't like the sense of pleading for recognition, but I think those little things filter subtly but perceptibly into the way the competition treats clubs. If plparents and friends felt positively about the organisations these kids were at, I think it would at least mitigate some of the retention problem.

 

[acuguy]

I think the circuit breaker is getting as many talented kids who can have an impact almost immediately is vital. This has worked with the recruiting of Aish and Mayes with our 1st rd picks. I am not sure we are position of using our 1st rd pick on a tall at the moment. Our list quality is really poor. Our midfield is 70 percent there, I would rather sure this are up first.

 

[POBT]

Is that a circuit breaker though? We actually had quite a few relatively young players re-sign at the beginning of last year, and lay what seemed to be the beginnings of a new culture with buy-in from a lot of the players.

Wasn't exactly "one in, all in" though, which is the point I'm trying to make. We still had 5 blokes (from the same two draft years ) let their contracts expire so that they could abandon the club.

It will be so much harder to rebuild the culture if a large proportion of the 10-12 blokes we recruited in the past 2 years are waiting to see what happens before committing. The players need to want to do something together - it almost needs to be "**** the world - we'll turn this around". I'm seeing a few signs that we've recruited blokes who buy into the team ethos - if that can become the dominant culture, then we stand a better chance of driving positive change.

I put that sort of team cultural change at the heart of what turned the Bears from a transit lounge/retirement village into a group of blokes who would play for each other.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

Just regarding that Quig. surely there is an optimum height for tall forwards in the AFL? If so, what do you think it is for a KPF/KPD?

In my uneducated AFL opinion, I'd argue that the height (196cm) and size (101kg) of Lance Franklin is the perfect tall forward. He is big enough to take a contested mark and crash packs, quick enough on the lead to out run most midfielders and mobile enough to tackle smaller players. So once you go over those boundaries, you take away from one or more of those attributes.

Jeremy Cameron is another player I'd put in Franklin's ilk.

Or are tall forwards the size of Boyd, Daniher and Wright really capable of having the same attributes as a Franklin or Cameron?

Don't want to appear pedantic, but I think you will find Buddy is 198cm. Tippet is 201cm and from memory Patton and Boyd are both well over 196. I think Quigley's point is that they are getting taller and what was optimal for a key forward some years ago no longer is. Admittedly none of the latter are as mobile or athletic as Buddy, but he is a freak where that's concerned.

 

[carnthemlions]

Don't want to appear pedantic, but I think you will find Buddy is 198cm. Tippet is 201cm and from memory Patton and Boyd are both well over 196. I think Quigley's point is that they are getting taller and what was optimal for a key forward some years ago no longer is. Admittedly none of the latter are as mobile or athletic as Buddy, but he is a freak where that's concerned.

I think Boyd is only a couple of cm shorter than Wright.

Cameron and Franklin aren't a blueprint for anything. Players like them don't come along very often.

 

[Schmidty Chut]

It's really not the end of the world who we pick with that first selection. I'm still thinking take the best available.

Petracca???

 

[Panthera]

A few of the 'draft experts' are openly stating that Dawson is a first rounder (late) every day of the week

 

[chopperduck]

The advantage we have is that we are at the bottom so our picks are very high. Even if Dawson is worth around an end of first round pick, there are very few clubs that could force us to use our 2nd rounder to take him. Bombers pick is end of first round, might be a compo pick or two otherwise it is likely onlu Saints could force us.

 

[jjami15]

After the few weeks deliberations here on this board and also when you read around it looks like it has come down to two (permitted St Kilda take McCartin) of Wright and Petracca. Having Close and Freeman in the books and with the likely addition of Hammelman it could possibly sway their thinking. It would be great to have an insight into wha the club thinks about Freeman and Hammelman as this would IMO sway which way we go. Petracca's form after the championships has him being talked up as a possible pick 1 however due to our needs and St Kilda's this could sway where he goes but adds further to the adage of take best player at X pick. All I know is for the next 4 months there is going to be a lot of talk yet.

 

[Caiphus]

With the combine close to 4 months away there is a lot that can change between now and then.

It quill be interesting to see who the bolters are this year.

 

[Dom PC]

I think Boyd is only a couple of cm shorter than Wright.

Cameron and Franklin aren't a blueprint for anything. Players like them don't come along very often.

I wasn't trying to imply that they are available every draft. I was just giving my opinion on what my ideal KPF shape and size is. The reason that being, I was trying to ask a seasoned AFL and draftee watcher what is the perfect height is for a key forward these days.

I just thought Franklin's shape and size where close to perfect in terms of being that all rounder KPF that can take a contested mark, mark on the lead, crash packs, agile and quick enough to kick goals when the ball goes to ground and apply great defensive pressure without the ball. IMO anyone taller and heavier than Franklin you begin to be less effective in one or more of those attributes.

 

[Simba Moyo]

I'm firmly in the Petracca camp. Just imagine him in a midfield of Rich, Redden, Rockliff, Hanley, Aish, Beams, Zorko, Taylor.. As desperate as we are for a KPF our biggest deficiencies have been contested position/clearances and contested marking and he brings that in spades. I would be much more confident in the club going forward going after someone who looks like a big time game changer than a forward such as Wright who I'm really not sold on. Best available > needs.

 

[Bucking Beads]

I think Retracca could be a good choice. We still need to improve our midfield so if we aren't overly confident with the tall options at our pick maybe we just go best available.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

I think if we rate Hammelman and Uebergang and look like getting one or both then we may look at best available with our first pick. You can only have so many key forward options, assuming we keep Freeman and Lisle. On the other hand, we aren't flush with ruck options and so a guy like Wright would have a lot of appeal you would think.

 

[Hollow Knight]

I think if we rate Hammelman and Uebergang and look like getting one or both then we may look at best available with our first pick. You can only have so many key forward options, assuming we keep Freeman and Lisle. On the other hand, we aren't flush with ruck options and so a guy like Wright would have a lot of appeal you would think.

I reckon Lisle's odds of being on the list next year are about 120/1.

 

[Kevvo]

I think if we rate Hammelman and Uebergang and look like getting one or both then we may look at best available with our first pick. You can only have so many key forward options, assuming we keep Freeman and Lisle. On the other hand, we aren't flush with ruck options and so a guy like Wright would have a lot of appeal you would think.

Actually, I'd have said ruck was probably our best position, and one of the easiest to source mature players who can do a job. I'd be totally comfortable with any of Leuey, West or Martin playing as first ruck, and Archie looks to be developing fairly well. I'm pretty confident that Stef will still be here next year, so I'd say that's probably the last thing we'll need to bolster.

 

[jackess]

That raises an interesting point, with Martin in career best form and being out of contract, what happens if he gets a better offer?

 

[winged1]

It is interesting having all these 200cm forwards. I dont think weve seen what they can really do yet. With players being brought in from other sports, and going after athletes, we havent yet seen this new 200cm KPF really come of age yet. Tippett is probably the closest example.

Usually when you get to that hieght, you arent big muscle wise. Those frames are usually drawn to basketball. I think this is helping the overall agility and coordination of these giants, as opposed to 200cm players 10 years ago who would be unco rucks at best. However they still arent big and strong, so you end up with super tall more agile KPF but ones that arent really great at crashing packs or taking contested marks.

Its not easy getting muscle on those frames either, but Wright is at least already over 100kg.

I dont know about that guys who are 6'7" and co-ordinated are point guards in bb. 200cm isnt big enough to play forward or certainly not centre. Maybe footy is getting the unco 6'7" guys.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

Actually, I'd have said ruck was probably our best position, and one of the easiest to source mature players who can do a job. I'd be totally comfortable with any of Leuey, West or Martin playing as first ruck, and Archie looks to be developing fairly well. I'm pretty confident that Stef will still be here next year, so I'd say that's probably the last thing we'll need to bolster.

My thinking was that West is pretty much gone for all of next year, Leuey is a week to week proposition and I don't see Archie being at the level for at least another year. I also don't see us playing both Leuey and Martin together somehow, unless both improve their ability to play/rest forward.

 

[Panthera]

Decent match up this Sunday with several potential Lions playing: