2014 Non-Crows AFL Discussion

[Geoffa32]

United v Victory goals 1 all

Flares 3-2 Uniteds way.....although the victory guys had some crackers.


Got to say the soccer at AO is a bit underwhelming compared to Aussie Rules.

And I had more beers tonight than at any Aussie Rules game this year.

 

[Tyls83]

So you guys don't want him and after his little outburst he won't come to us now. Coming back to Adelaide seems a tad difficult now. I'm really not sure how he expected us to get him after the Ryder deal.

He appears a flog! And I'm not convinced he can play at all. I can't remember a player having such a rant at a club in public before.

 

[Sir Vlado]

So you guys don't want him and after his little outburst he won't come to us now. Coming back to Adelaide seems a tad difficult now. I'm really not sure how he expected us to get him after the Ryder deal.

He's probably burned any chances he had with any other club with possible interest in him, and long term it doesn't seem as if he'll be having much of an AFL career anyway.

 

[Shaxx Attaxx]

He's probably burned any chances he had with any other club with possible interest in him, and long term it doesn't seem as if he'll be having much of an AFL career anyway.

Yeah what an weird way to go about it. I see is dad has cracked the shits on Facebook as well. Being a bitch obviously runs in the family.
Should be a good pick up for Norwood in 2016.

 

[Macca19]

He appears a flog! And I'm not convinced he can play at all. I can't remember a player having such a rant at a club in public before.

Tony Mcguiness almost took Sydney to court at the end of 1996 when they overlooked him in the draft.

 

[Tyls83]

Tony Mcguiness almost took Sydney to court at the end of 1996 when they overlooked him in the draft.

He ranted and raved via fax rather than twitter or Facebook.

 

[cmndstab]

Any compassion for the players? Serious question.
I have had the view (before we drafted Paddy) that the club should be punished, not the players.
Had the same view about Tippett as well, that the club should be punished. I recall being a guy in my 20s and if my employer who I trusted gave me whatever the Essendon players were given, or they put a contract in front of me I probably would have done it.
In my opinion Essendon should be crippled at an Administration and coaching level, the players probably were unaware of what they were doing.

Absolutely - the reality is that the players have been sold up the creek by Essendon here. Yes, I understand "responsibility for your own body" and all that, but honestly, if you're at a club and they're asking you to take something, you're going to take it. Even if the players had queried it (and they may well have) they would have been told it's all above board, it's to aid recovery, etc. Make no mistake about it: the players are the victims in this scenario.

Unfortunately that won't get them out of the penalties that are coming to them. For some of them those penalties will bring an end their careers - for others it will kill it before it even starts. All of them will suffer large loss of income, sponsorship options, and massive blows to their reputations.

I hope every single one of them sues the pants off the administration at Essendon for putting them in this situation.

 

[Don Muraco]

Absolutely - the reality is that the players have been sold up the creek by Essendon here. Yes, I understand "responsibility for your own body" and all that, but honestly, if you're at a club and they're asking you to take something, you're going to take it. Even if the players had queried it (and they may well have) they would have been told it's all above board, it's to aid recovery, etc. Make no mistake about it: the players are the victims in this scenario.

Unfortunately that won't get them out of the penalties that are coming to them. For some of them those penalties will bring an end their careers - for others it will kill it before it even starts. All of them will suffer large loss of income, sponsorship options, and massive blows to their reputations.

I hope every single one of them sues the pants off the administration at Essendon for putting them in this situation.

It really is a tangled web. I wonder when the penalties take effect and the players take action where the great vlad will be involved as far as culpability.

 

[NikkiNoo]

It really is a tangled web. I wonder when the penalties take effect and the players take action where the great vlad will be involved as far as culpability.

Considering that the AFL had heard rumours about what was going on and that they called Hird in to speak to him about Peptides and that they are not to be used, and yet Essendon still kept going with the program, the AFL actually comes out looking better. The AFL then contacted ASADA and said we think you might want to look closer at Essendon. ASADA already had been interested in Essendon and did target testing of more Essendon players. The results were clear but there was elevated levels that told ASADA something was going on that wasn't above board. The AFL did warn Essendon. The culpability rests purely on Essendon, and the players for not checking with ASADA. The players were given training sessions by the AFL and the AFLPA telling them to check everything each year.

 

[Sanders]

Also, Whatever penalty Ryder gets, the two draft picks Essendon got for him, should get the same ban. Essendon should be made to pay if Port are penalized.

So you reckon 2 innocent blokes should serve someone else's sentence?

That's just dumb

 

[little graham]

So you reckon 2 innocent blokes should serve someone else's sentence?

That's just dumb

Is it? As dumb as we getting the biggest punishment for Melbourne throwing games?

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

I gave no idea about him tbh.

We can only hope he is better than Gus.

Surely couldn't be worse...

 

[LiquidCrow]

Dan Gorringe.... Oh he mad!

I reckon there must be hundreds of failed trade negotiations that never come to light, but players don't see it in their best interests to make these public. Gorringe's father might have had a rant, but he's removed those remarks and his responses on the GCS board have been calm and appropriate. It reminds me a little of Melbourne promising the Sloane family they would draft Rory if available with their second round pick in 2008, but let him slip to us. Early on the family expressed their disappointment and hesitancy about dealing with Melbourne again.

Is it? As dumb as we getting the biggest punishment for Melbourne throwing games?

Bailey was coach at Melbourne during the "non tanking/tanking" period (that was the dumb part IMHO), and he did his suspension while employed at Adelaide. The equivalent of what you are suggesting would have been to suspend Neeld or whoever was in charge at Melbourne the time when the sanctions were handed out instead of punishing those responsible. If player bans are the eventual outcome from the ASADA investigation, clubs who have traded for Essendon players would have been fully aware of the risk of this occurring and prepared to accept any negative consequences.

 

[little graham]

Bailey was coach at Melbourne during the "non tanking/tanking" period (that was the dumb part IMHO), and he did his suspension while employed at Adelaide. The equivalent of what you are suggesting would have been to suspend Neeld or whoever was in charge at Melbourne the time when the sanctions were handed out instead of punishing those responsible. If player bans are the eventual outcome from the ASADA investigation, clubs who have traded for Essendon players would have been fully aware of the risk of this occurring and prepared to accept any negative consequences.

I didn't know any of that, I thought Melbourne were cleared of tanking and bailey instructed by the board to play for draft picks.

What i do know is that everyone knows what Essendon did. If you play for them, you telling everyone what they did is Ok. They have tried everything to avoid responsibility for their actions. They have attacked the administration of this league and the anti doping agency, when if they didn't ask the players to sign wavers then inject them off site with banned drugs. this wouldn't be happening.

Guilt by association.

 

[Glenno23]

I hope Essendon are crushed by ASADA. Make em pay for being such ****wits for

a) Doping players
b) Dragging it out

 

[ZingerB]

I'd say so. I suppose it all depends on how long he will be out for. A massive kick in the balls if he misses the season. To be honest the whole essendon drug thing has bored the hell out of me so I havnt paid attention. Might need to look a bit closer now

Ps. I like what the Crows did. A Port supporter summed it up nicely on your board before. I really would of liked Lowden at Port.

All reports are that ASADA will puss out. The line 'ASADA will not accept a penalty that doesn't include missed matches in 2015' has been thrown around a lot. Makes me think they just want a win given how drawn out this has been. If they get a penalty that say goes into round 5-10, that would completely destroy Essendon's season because no one will be match fit, but as long as Lobbe doesn't go down early, Ryder will basically be coming in when we need him at the back end of the season.

 

[crowsup]

I guess that, if the Essendon players that signed wavers shouldn't be penalised, the players that refused to take extra injections should be????

 

[NikkiNoo]

All reports are that ASADA will puss out. The line 'ASADA will not accept a penalty that doesn't include missed matches in 2015' has been thrown around a lot. Makes me think they just want a win given how drawn out this has been. If they get a penalty that say goes into round 5-10, that would completely destroy Essendon's season because no one will be match fit, but as long as Lobbe doesn't go down early, Ryder will basically be coming in when we need him at the back end of the season.

By whose reports are that ASADA will puss out? From the Essendon stooges in the media? They were saying at the start that there wasn't enough evidence. Now that 350 pages worth have been attached to the SCNs, the story has changed to they are only going to give a slap on the wrist. ASADA haven't said anything apart from that there is the possibly of reduced penalties for substantial assistance. ASADA are not the ones that give out penalties. The SCNs go to the ADVRP and if they find that there is enough information in that there there has been a doping violation, then an infraction notice is issued by the sporting body and penalty assigned - in this case the AFL under advisement from ASADA. If ASADA or WADA do not agree with the penalty assigned then they can take it to CAS. The player can also take it to CAS and the AAT. This is far from over now that the new SCNs have dropped.

 

[marty36]

All reports are that ASADA will puss out. The line 'ASADA will not accept a penalty that doesn't include missed matches in 2015' has been thrown around a lot. Makes me think they just want a win given how drawn out this has been. If they get a penalty that say goes into round 5-10, that would completely destroy Essendon's season because no one will be match fit, but as long as Lobbe doesn't go down early, Ryder will basically be coming in when we need him at the back end of the season.

It will be the whole season imagine the AFL trying to do a draw, who would they decide gets to play Essendon in say the first 5 rounds (if Suspended for 5 Rounds) an absolute guaranteed win for that club how is that fair for the other clubs. They will either not miss a game or the whole season. My Money is on the second option.

 

[ZingerB]

By whose reports are that ASADA will puss out? From the Essendon stooges in the media? They were saying at the start that there wasn't enough evidence. Now that 350 pages worth have been attached to the SCNs, the story has changed to they are only going to give a slap on the wrist. ASADA haven't said anything apart from that there is the possibly of reduced penalties for substantial assistance. ASADA are not the ones that give out penalties. The SCNs go to the ADVRP and if they find that there is enough information in that there there has been a doping violation, then an infraction notice is issued by the sporting body and penalty assigned - in this case the AFL under advisement from ASADA. If ASADA or WADA do not agree with the penalty assigned then they can take it to CAS. The player can also take it to CAS and the AAT. This is far from over now that the new SCNs have dropped.

Seen it mentioned repeatedly. Would normally write it off as media spin, but generally the media has been pretty pessimistic about Essendon with the obvious exception of people like Tim Watson. Hard to sort out fact from fiction with all the bs. For obvious reasons I would like to see Crameri, Monfries, and Ryder push Essendon under a bus and get the best possible deal. ASADA's reputation is on the line and unless they have rock solid evidence, they will try and deal. The fact that they offered a deal pre the federal court appeal tells me they are probably open to this. Slagging off ASADA all the way probably didn't help mind you. For a 'deal' to be worth anything it clearly has to be less than the 2 years worst case scenario.

 

[Glenno23]

Seen it mentioned repeatedly. Would normally write it off as media spin, but generally the media has been pretty pessimistic about Essendon with the obvious exception of people like Tim Watson. Hard to sort out fact from fiction with all the bs. For obvious reasons I would like to see Crameri, Monfries, and Ryder push Essendon under a bus and get the best possible deal. ASADA's reputation is on the line and unless they have rock solid evidence, they will try and deal. The fact that they offered a deal pre the federal court appeal tells me they are probably open to this. Slagging off ASADA all the way probably didn't help mind you. For a 'deal' to be worth anything it clearly has to be less than the 2 years worst case scenario.

How would you feel about recruiting Ryder if he has to sit out all of next year?

Right move, wrong move?

 

[ZingerB]

It will be the whole season imagine the AFL trying to do a draw, who would they decide gets to play Essendon in say the first 5 rounds (if Suspended for 5 Rounds) an absolute guaranteed win for that club how is that fair for the other clubs. They will either not miss a game or the whole season. My Money is on the second option.

How is it any different to GWS and GC from a couple of years ago? heck in 2012, if you played Port, GC, and GWS twice you were halfway to the 8 before the season had started.

 

[ZingerB]

How would you feel about recruiting Ryder if he has to sit out all of next year?

Right move, wrong move?

Would depend on what he did in 2016. He could just have a breakdown with all the shit going on (obviously a bad move then). We were desperate for a ruck/forward and clearly playing the shortest player in the AFL at full forward in the prelim hurt us. Even with him out for a year, he still could be the missing link to 1 or 2 premierships. Would you have taken a punt on a guy like Barry Hall in the early-mid 2000's when you desperately needed a forward to complete your side?

 

[NikkiNoo]

Seen it mentioned repeatedly. Would normally write it off as media spin, but generally the media has been pretty pessimistic about Essendon with the obvious exception of people like Tim Watson. Hard to sort out fact from fiction with all the bs. For obvious reasons I would like to see Crameri, Monfries, and Ryder push Essendon under a bus and get the best possible deal. ASADA's reputation is on the line and unless they have rock solid evidence, they will try and deal. The fact that they offered a deal pre the federal court appeal tells me they are probably open to this. Slagging off ASADA all the way probably didn't help mind you. For a 'deal' to be worth anything it clearly has to be less than the 2 years worst case scenario.

They don't need rock solid evidence. They just need probability of a doping offence. This is not law and order, huge difference in the burden of proof for a doping offence when there is no positive test available.

Most of the media are guessing as the only place they are getting information from is leaks from Essendon or the AFL. ASADA's reputation is not on the line. The ACC cleared them when they were accused of leaking. Then off to court we go and Justice Middleton comes down hard on Essendon. They didn't offer a deal pre the federal court appeal. The AFL asked them if there would be an option of a deal for the players. It was an AFL suggested deal. McDevitt has stated there was no deal offered from ASADA.

 

[ZingerB]

They don't need rock solid evidence. They just need probability of a doping offence. This is not law and order, huge difference in the burden of proof for a doping offence when there is no positive test available.

Most of the media are guessing as the only place they are getting information from is leaks from Essendon or the AFL. ASADA's reputation is not on the line. The ACC cleared them when they were accused of leaking. Then off to court we go and Justice Middleton comes down hard on Essendon. They didn't offer a deal pre the federal court appeal. The AFL asked them if there would be an option of a deal for the players. It was an AFL suggested deal. McDevitt has stated there was no deal offered from ASADA.

Wasn't aware of the absence of the deal. I still maintain ASADA's credibility is on the line here. If they lose, Essendon will have a field day, and people who wanted the sport cleaned up will regard ASADA as incompetent. 2 years on there has to be a conclusive result in ASADA's favour. I'm not referring to 'rock solid evidence' in a standard of proof sense, referring to the fact that unless they are about 95% sure of winning, they are likely to offer a deal to make it 100%. The fact that Essendon have pretty much given a big **** you to everyone around them makes that harder, but if ASADA lose, everyone in senior management may as well resign and never enter public life again, and that makes me think there will be a deal. I don't know precisely what that deal will be. Clearly it won't be as generous as the one Cronulla got, but it would have to be juicy enough to induce Essendon players to take it. So again unless there is a lot we don't know and the evidence is pretty damning, I doubt 2 years is on the cards.