Analysis 2016 AFL Trade Week Thread

[RussellEbertHandball]

I was searching for some old comments about Parker and came across this from 22 Nov 2013 the day after the national draft, in response to a comment by the late Natman (RIP).
https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/rookie-draft.1041956/#post-31023024

Natman said: ↑
We must pick up another ruckman in the Rookie draft - it is too much of a risk to go into a season with only 3 real ruckmen (assumes we pick up Renouf) in the squad.

I reckon the brains trust thinking will be Lobbe + Redden - rookie list Renouf, Harvey is there in the Daniel Stewart tall forward/ruckman role and they will use Westhoff and Trengove as pinch hitters.

Parker did say in his Q&A the other day with bigfooty posters

"We think we’re in a good position with our talls – over 195cm – so it’s not an urgent need for us to fill but it’s something we’ll consider as we go through the draft."
==========

So based on that thinking back in November 2013 I reckon our current list management team's think is

KPF's - Dixon, Westhoff, Howard and we can rest Ryder and Jacko there

Rucks - Ryder, Lobbe, Frampton, Howard and we can ruck Jacko and Westhoff and Dixon if need be

Port supporters who are sick of this shit, thinking is;

KPF's - Dixon only because
Westhoff isnt a true KPF, Howard wont play after he debuts in the SANFL approx Rd 13 to give his ACL the full 12 months, so will have little impact at AFL level, Ryder shouldn't be playing much up forward because unless Lobbe performs like he did in the first 15 games or so of 2014 he will be rucking 75% of the time and Jacko isnt a KPF.

Ruck's - Ryder, Lobbe, Frampton and Jacko will be our second ruck when Lobbe isn't playing, which could be bugger all unless he pulls his finger out.

 

[NEGAN]

I was searching for some old comments about Parker and came across this from 22 Nov 2013 the day after the national draft, in response to a comment by the late Natman (RIP).
https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/rookie-draft.1041956/#post-31023024


I reckon the brains trust thinking will be Lobbe + Redden - rookie list Renouf, Harvey is there in the Daniel Stewart tall forward/ruckman role and they will use Westhoff and Trengove as pinch hitters.

Parker did say in his Q&A the other day with bigfooty posters

"We think we’re in a good position with our talls – over 195cm – so it’s not an urgent need for us to fill but it’s something we’ll consider as we go through the draft."
==========

So based on that thinking back in November 2013 I reckon our current list management team's think is

KPF's - Dixon, Westhoff, Howard and we can rest Ryder and Jacko there

Rucks - Ryder, Lobbe, Frampton, Howard and we can ruck Jacko and Westhoff and Dixon of need be

Port supporters who are sick of this shit, thinking is;

KPF's - Dixon only because
Westhoff isnt a true KPF, Howard wont play after he debuts in the SANFL approx Rd 13 to give his ACL the full 12 months, so will have little impact at AFL level, Ryder shouldn't be playing much up forward because unless Lobbe performs like he did in the first 15 games or so of 2014 he will be rucking 75% of the time and Jacko isnt a KPF.

Ruck's - Ryder, Lobbe, Frampton and Jacko will be our second ruck when Lobbe isn't playing, which could be bugger all unless he pulls his finger out.

I know I will get shot for this but Jackson should be our permenant ruck with Ryder playing majority fwd.

Ryder was fantastic up fwd in the back half of 2015. He is the perfect foil for Dixon, plus he will smash ruckmen in the 4th qtr with the way Trengove will wear them down.

I am against Trengove going into our back line, he is a ruckmen I don't care what anyone says and he is not as good as Ryder up fwd.

Playing Trengove as our first ruck solves a lot of problems with minimal loss anywhere else.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

I know I will get shot for this but Jackson should be our permenant ruck with Ryder playing majority fwd.

Ryder was fantastic up fwd in the back half of 2015. He is the perfect foil for Dixon, plus he will smash ruckmen in the 4th qtr with the way Trengove will wear them down.

I am against Trengove going into our back line, he is a ruckmen I don't care what anyone says and he is not as good as Ryder up fwd.

Playing Trengove as our first ruck solves a lot of problems with minimal loss anywhere else.

Nope Ryder doesn't kick many goals but has had the odd good game as a forward, but his main asset is his leaping ability which leads to his taps to advantage to give Robbie and co first use of the ball, which then gives us the opportunity to get it quickly and accurately into our forward line. Jacko wasn't a great tap ruckman this year, he was a big hearted clearance player who quiet often roved the other ruckman's tap. He also did many hack kicks out of those centre stoppages which many times ended up with the opposition. I've said it before, but if Jacko is second ruck, I would use him for 2 or 3 centre bounce downs per quarter as the enforcer ruck rover player to help win the ball. He basically plays on the ball for 15 to 30 seconds for the centre bounce down and swaps with the other mid and drifts forward.

 

[FranKenHinckley]

16. Matthew Lobbe
17. Harry Taylor
18. Alex Rance
19. Callan Ward

28. Marlon Motlop
29. Brendan Whitecross
32. Levi Greenwood

33. Matthew Westhoff
37. Scott Thompson
40. Chris Mayne
42. Jack Steven
43. Easton Wood

49. Mitch Farmer
53. Kyle Cheney
54. Cale Hooker
59. Craig Bird

F. M. D

Quite possibly the single most depressing thing I have ever read here

 

[NEGAN]

Nope Ryder doesn't kick many goals but has had the odd good game as a forward, but his main asset is his leaping ability which leads to his taps to advantage to give Robbie and co first use of the ball, which then gives us the opportunity to get it quickly and accurately into our forward line. Jacko wasn't a great tap ruckman this year, he was a big hearted clearance player who quiet often roved the other ruckman's tap. He also did many hack kicks out of those centre stoppages which many times ended up with the opposition. I've said it before, but if Jacko is second ruck, I would use him for 2 or 3 centre bounce downs per quarter as the enforcer ruck rover player to help win the ball. He basically plays on the ball for 15 to 30 seconds for the centre bounce down and swaps with the other mid and drifts forward.

I guess I am still of the belief that ruck taps are overrated. Robbie doesn't need ruck taps to win a clearance.

Remember Jackson got thrown into the ruck and performed at a high level and produced numbers never seen before. We have an absolute weapon here a ruck who wins more clearances than the actual mids why wouldn't we persist? Not to mention his tackle count. With Lade coming in it can only benefit Trengove.

Trengove smashed the premier ruckmen in the league but got tired towards the end.

In 2015 Ryder going fwd changed his form and our teams form imagine him with Charlie imagine that with trengove and not lobbe.

2 monsters up fwd one athletic one a beast. Its beautiful.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

I guess I am still of the belief that ruck taps are overrated. Robbie doesn't need ruck taps to win a clearance.

Remember Jackson got thrown into the ruck and performed at a high level and produced numbers never seen before. We have an absolute weapon here a ruck who wins more clearances than the actual mids why wouldn't we persist? With Lade coming in it can only benefit Trengove.

Trengove smashed the premier ruckmen in the league but got tired towards the end.

He had two games where he got unbelievable clearance figures and yes they had been seen before. He got 13 against Brisbane's Stefan Martin at AO and then 12 weeks or so later at the Gabba he got 15 clearances against a 1st gamer in Archie Smith.

I am a great fan of Jacko's but lets not turn his heroics into an incorrect story of being a dominate ruck. He didn't have 2 great games in a row. He had 3 good games in a row - excellent against the Bulldogs, pretty good against Freo, the bye and then very good against Maric. He got smashed by the All Oz ruckman Max Gawn but he touched up the previous All Oz ruckman in Goldstein who was in the middle of an injury run.

Gray is a freak, but how much better for him and his body if he gets taps to advantage rather than having to always smash in and get the ball. Boak, Wines, Ebert, Hartlett, Ah Chee etc aren't freaks like Robbie.

 

[Jakksynn]

Straw i am currently clutching at - this trade is not in the worst three this trade period.

At least we didn't trade 2 second rounders nd next years 1st for pick 10, to lure a player that hasn't played since 2014. Selling the farm.

At least we didn't sign Chris Mayne for 4 years.

At least we didn't push out our best contested midfielder and vice captain for a 9 pick upgrade in the third round, and a 2 pick ugrade in the fourth. The famous packet of thins light and tangy.

Sigh.

The glaring difference between us and Hawthorn is they've just won 3 in a row and we've done nothing but embarrass ourselves for the best part of a decade. They have the runs on the board, and have proven they have wise heads running he ship, we're the monkey banging on a typewriter hoping something happens

 

[NEGAN]

He had two games where he got unbelievable clearance figures and yes they had been seen before. He got 13 against Brisbane's Stefan Martin at AO and then 12 weeks or so later at the Gabba he got 15 clearances against a 1st gamer in Archie Smith.

I am a great fan of Jacko's but lets not turn his heroics into an incorrect story of being a dominate ruck. He didn't have 2 great games in a row. He had 3 good games in a row - excellent against the Bulldogs, pretty good against Freo, the bye and then very good against Maric. He got smashed by the All Oz ruckman Max Gawn but he touched up the previous All Oz ruckman in Goldstein who was in the middle of an injury run.

Gray is a freak, but how much better for him and his body if he gets taps to advantage rather than having to always smash in and get the ball. Boak, Wines, Ebert, Hartlett, Ah Chee etc aren't freaks like Robbie.

I did the stats based only on his games as ruck.

He averaged 8 clr 7 tkls and 18 posessions In his ruck games no other ruckmen got near these numbers as a whole granted he lost in taps. Inconsistent yes but what do you expect given the circumstances.

The fact he even had 2 games with 13 and 15 clearances is enough to convince me its enough to persist with. We were all shitting bricks about Lobbe and his tackles in 2014.

Getting touched up by Max Gawn in your make shift role as ruck in your first year there is no shame in that. As you stated he smashed Goldstein etc..

What he produced would have at least 14 other teams salivating at the prospect of what he can achieve with a preseason rucking plus a ruck coach not to mention a fresh Paddy as his wingman.The other 3 teams have Goldstien Nic Nat and Gawn.

His ruck performance this season went fairly unoticed and I thank god that it has been criminally underrated.

If he can learn the art of rucking and tapping he would average the AFL's version of a tripple Double.

 

[Jakksynn]

Say your young son takes a shit in the hallway and you say "good pooing!" that's not supporting him, that's enabling him and encouraging him to continue shitting in the hallway. That's Port right now.

"Support" all you want, but others are more pragmatic.

Supporter has never sat well with me. You shouldn't always support your club, every club ****s up and it's the fans job to let them know. So I'm not a supporter, I'm a follower. I'll follow this club all the way into the depths of hell, but I'll be kicking up a storm the whole way.

 

[Sleezy]

The glaring difference between us and Hawthorn is they've just won 3 in a row and we've done nothing but embarrass ourselves for the best part of a decade. They have the runs on the board, and have proven they have wise heads running he ship, we're the monkey banging on a typewriter hoping something happens

Agree they have the runs on the board, but they aren't the first and won't be the last to go too far trying to stay in contention.

I don't agree with Portia's strategic dip assessment for two reasons:
- They won't have any high end draft picks to take advantage of their drop off, having already sold the farm
- Their midfield depth is extremely poor. First choice midfield is now McEvoy, T Mitchell, Shiels, O'Meara*, with Burgoye, Hodge, Smith & Duyrea. There is no-one underneath. Uninspiring.

They need to be chasing FA next year to replenish. I reckon Lewis & Mitchell left to make room for Fyfe. Will be interested to see watch.

 

[Established1870]

I reckon Lewis & Mitchell left to make room for Fyfe. Will be interested to see watch.

Honestly don't see him leaving Freo tbh. Well not for Hawthorn anyway. The team they're setting up will challenge for flags in the next few years so you'd think Fyfe would stay for that.

 

[Sleezy]

Honestly don't see him leaving Freo tbh. Well not for Hawthorn anyway. The team they're setting up will challenge for flags in the next few years so you'd think Fyfe would stay for that.

Agree that there are doubts about him leaving at all, and bigger doubts him naming the hawks as his destination. But i think that's what they are setting up to do.

I mean who else is a FA from that draft that is worth chasing? Dusty maybe, Pittard maybe, Gawn maybe. That's pretty much it.

 

[Rankor]

Suggested trade on Drafts board for hartlett.

Give you
11+Black
For
19+Hartlett+44

We take his full contract and pay 1/2 of Blacks for 2017
?

 

[port_adelaide_1870]

Suggested trade on Drafts board for hartlett.

Give you
11+Black
For
19+Hartlett+44

We take his full contract and pay 1/2 of Blacks for 2017
?

Nope. Not trading Hartlett for an upgraded first, a depth player and a 3rd rounder

 

[Magus]

Nope. Not trading Hartlett for an upgraded first, a depth player and a 3rd rounder

 

[PJ Power]

Suggested trade on Drafts board for hartlett.

Give you
11+Black
For
19+Hartlett+44

We take his full contract and pay 1/2 of Blacks for 2017
?

If possible that would trump yesterday's attempt by the club of self-mutilation.

 

[Kingfish73]

Jonas 3 years! You gotta be kidding right? Ken must be making the chief decisions on players. Ken is loosing the plot me thinks. Dead man walking unless something out of ordinary happens 2017.

 

[Macca19]

Suggested trade on Drafts board for hartlett.

Give you
11+Black
For
19+Hartlett+44

We take his full contract and pay 1/2 of Blacks for 2017
?

Horrific

 

[Lagooner]

So, what fresh hell will today bring?

#pray4penske

 

[cj_09]

 

[raptalia]

Jonas 3 years! You gotta be kidding right? Ken must be making the chief decisions on players. Ken is loosing the plot me thinks. Dead man walking unless something out of ordinary happens 2017.

Yes, I can only think that this is a ploy to get another club to bite at the trade table.

In a full list I cannot see Tom making our best 22 so surely a twelve month contract with a conditional extension is the way to go. Apparently we did this with AhChee so why not Jonas?

If Rucci is right and Tom Jonas will sign a three year deal I am beginning to loose all faith in the list management at Alberton.
A three year deal for Jonas is the stuff the Lobbe contract was made of.

 

[raptalia]

View attachment 302157

Oh dear, does that somehow mean we are going to trade next year's second round pick?

 

[Lagooner]

Oh dear, does that somehow mean we are going to trade next year's second round pick?

Nah as the 3rd party facilitator we'll come out of this with a little bit of cream on top.

Right?

 

[raptalia]

This from the AFL website,

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-10-18/a-rift-with-ken-hinkley-thats-rubbish-says-ports-list-manager

Looks like Crowie and Elbows shit stirring and the AFL giving it some credence.

 

[Kingfish73]

Yes, I can only think that this is a ploy to get another club to bite at the trade table.

In a full list I cannot see Tom making our best 22 so surely a twelve month contract with a conditional extension is the way to go. Apparently we did this with AhChee so why not Jonas?

If Rucci is right and Tom Jonas will sign a three year deal I am beginning to loose all faith in the list management at Alberton.
A three year deal for Jonas is the stuff the Lobbe contract was made of.

He would have accepted a 1 year deal! Its ludicrous. I understand he has some upside as a depth player, but not worth 3 years. I guess we dont know the finer details and I usually would give the benefit of the doubt to the club making the right call. But our track record given long contracts is becoming Costanza like!