Universal Love 2016 Draft Discussion

[Jimmae]

Happy to...let's get the conversation back on track to what i originally meant to say..and i will try not to offend anyone.

Does anyone know who decides the living arrangements of new players? Is it purely the club or do players decide?

Barass70 mentioned Pickett, SPS & LeBoi are sharing a house together - I picked these 3 because i don't know any other draftees living arrangements.
They are all new to Carlton and new to Melbourne.

I would have thought it may be beneficial to have someone from Melbourne or a more established player in the house to show them the ropes?
But i guess the club feels those players will be able to motivate each other and form a close bond...with their similar cultural backgrounds maybe helping them to relate to each other.

I'm sure there are others nearby, and that they'll go out in slightly larger groups. Walker is also there at the club to help with this.

 

[Blue__Balls]

I'm also curious about whether this sort of arrangement with new players is common across the AFL. Last year we had Weiters come on board and move in with the Silvagni's, yeah? So he was paired up with Jack (also a new draftee) but would have also had SOS himself around.

I suppose it'd be easier each year to have the new boys room with eachother, firstly because it would be less hassle than throwing established players living arrangements out of whack, and secondly because the new boys would probably be operating to similar schedules. The only time I can see them making a concerted effort to room a draftee with an established player would be if said player had a recently vacated room in their place (say, because their previous housemate got traded or delisted).

I still think there would be positives results to having the 18 year olds rooming with some of the 19-21 year olds where possible, but logistically it might be something that happens when it's convenient, rather than being the preferred set-up.

 

[El Topo]

Happy to...let's get the conversation back on track to what i originally meant to say..and i will try not to offend anyone.

Does anyone know who decides the living arrangements of new players? Is it purely the club or do players decide?

Barass70 mentioned Pickett, SPS & LeBoi are sharing a house together - I picked these 3 because i don't know any other draftees living arrangements.
They are all new to Carlton and new to Melbourne.

I would have thought it may be beneficial to have someone from Melbourne or a more established player in the house to show them the ropes?
But i guess the club feels those players will be able to motivate each other and form a close bond...with their similar cultural backgrounds maybe helping them to relate to each other.

It could be that Pickett has been identified as a potential leader within the squad and has been given the chance to help initiate the other indigenous boys. While they come from as diverse backgrounds as any three white players there is a special solidarity there. Eddie Betts took pride in the same role and it arguably made him a much better player.

 

[ajb72]

How clubs in general manage the living arrangements of [new] recruits. Since some would generally be coming from interstate and not have any social/family networks setup if the right arrangements arent made it could be detrimental to the recruit. It isnt too hard to imagine an introverted recruit living with extroverts and vice versa and not being a particularly happy home life.

Take Macreadie for an example. Stated as being a potential top 10 pick, and then reasons for his pick dropping being along the lines of being moved interstate etc...

Or maybe we just all go back to the imaginary world of players get drafted, they move and play football and train all the time and live happy little lives.

 

[F_therest]

Its actually a really interesting and good topic.

How clubs in general manage the living arrangements of [new] recruits. Since some would generally be coming from interstate and not have any social/family networks setup if the right arrangements arent made it could be detrimental to the recruit. It isnt too hard to imagine an introverted recruit living with extroverts and vice versa and not being a particularly happy home life.

It would be a BIG deal these days especially with the worry around the 'go home' factor of interstate recruits.
In the lead up to the draft some posters were concerned about picking SPS because he was from WA and possible flight risk.

How well settled and happy he is with his living arrangements would go a long way to determining if he's happy at Carlton or want's to leave.

A lot of recruits wouldn't have lived out of home before being only 17 or 18...and are suddenly living with other 18 year olds.

Even bigger deal for clubs like Brisbane...they would put a lot of work into welfare for their draftees, with living arrangements and friendship groups being a big part of that.

 

[F_therest]

It could be that Pickett has been identified as a potential leader within the squad and has been given the chance to help initiate the other indigenous boys. While they come from as diverse backgrounds as any three white players there is a special solidarity there. Eddie Betts took pride in the same role and it arguably made him a much better player.

If anyone was to take up that kind of role i reckon it'll be SPS personally...was captain of his U-18's team iirc and actually seems quite talkative and confident...while also have a burning determination to succeed and do his family/town proud.

 

[Aphrodite]

So much name calling & abuse and the thread being derailed by one single post.

Was getting too nasty.

Thread cleaned up.

Play nice thanks all!

*BUMP

Obviously some didn't see my post above.

Anymore name calling/abuse will earn you some time off.

Enough is enough.

Group hug all!

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Yep, that's the first thing I noticed when I moved from Hobart to living in Brisbane a few years back. That, and the fact that they still didn't have recycling bins, and every second 4WD drive had hunting lights/pro-guns stickers all over them.

Seriously red-necked, like stepping back 30 years in time.
And they say Tassie is backwards...

Rubbish. Unless you were living in some hick country town. Or Bob Katter country.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Daylight savings is ****ed though...

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

[F_therest]

I'm also curious about whether this sort of arrangement with new players is common across the AFL. Last year we had Weiters come on board and move in with the Silvagni's, yeah? So he was paired up with Jack (also a new draftee) but would have also had SOS himself around.

I suppose it'd be easier each year to have the new boys room with eachother, firstly because it would be less hassle than throwing established players living arrangements out of whack, and secondly because the new boys would probably be operating to similar schedules. The only time I can see them making a concerted effort to room a draftee with an established player would be if said player had a recently vacated room in their place (say, because their previous housemate got traded or delisted).

I still think there would be positives results to having the 18 year olds rooming with some of the 19-21 year olds where possible, but logistically it might be something that happens when it's convenient, rather than being the preferred set-up.

I think my response was accidently deleted lol anyway let's continue..

Did Weitering stay with SOS' family the whole year? Would be surprised if so since Weitering's from Melbourne?

I agree with you that it's probably easier boarding the new guys together logistically and it might be easier for them to bond and lean on each other since they're all going through the same thing together.

Just on that...the likes of SPS and Fisher who are from interstate were drafted on Friday and were at the club Monday...short turn around.
I'm assuming the club would have organised where they live for them, do CFC basically have a bunch of houses near Ikon Park on retainer they rent out every year?

 

[Blue__Balls]

Daylight savings is stuffed though...

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

As a suburban Melbournite, I love it - actually get some decent training in for cricket a few nights a week.

What's the downside for the rural folks - too dark in the early hours to get stuck into the work?

 

[FlowersByIrene]

As a suburban Melbournite, I love it - actually get some decent training in for cricket a few nights a week.

What's the downside for the rural folks - too dark in the early hours to get stuck into the work?

I'm not rural. Just don't like daylight savings. Don't see the point.

 

[Blue__Balls]

I think my response was accidently deleted lol anyway let's continue..

Did Weitering stay with SOS' family the whole year? Would be surprised if so since Weitering's from Melbourne?

I agree with you that it's probably easier boarding the new guys together logistically and it might be easier for them to bond and lean on each other since they're all going through the same thing together.

Just on that...the likes of SPS and Fisher who are from interstate were drafted on Friday and were at the club Monday...short turn around.
I'm assuming the club would have organised where they live for them, do CFC basically have a bunch of houses near Ikon Park on retainer they rent out every year?

Not sure if it was the whole year - and I imagine it was so that he wasn't having to drive up from Mornington to get to training (I imagine the Silvagnis would be pretty close by to Ikon Park).

I reckon with the big change in professionalism required for a new AFL player when it comes to diet, training, social guidelines, recovery etc. that having a slightly more experienced player with the new guys would help make sure they stay the course. As mentioned, Pickett may be experienced enough to offer that help, so maybe that's all there is to it.

I'm not sure how much socialising the boys do together in their own time. I'm sure some love hanging out with their teammates, while others probably appreciate having some time to themselves after spending all week together.

 

[Blue__Balls]

I'm not rural. Just don't like daylight savings. Don't see the point.

Haha - cricket training, walking the dogs, mowing the lawn...that's about all I've got, but it's enough for me.

 

[therubbernub]

I think overriding all that has been said about the indigenous players, is respect. Respect for their playing abilities and certainly in the case of SPS respect for his dedication and leadership. I dont think anyone here intentionally posts anything derogatory towards an indigenous player -and i think that tends to get forgotten with all the grandstanding on both sides.

 

[Jimmae]

I'm not rural. Just don't like daylight savings. Don't see the point.

The original reasonings were two fold: to save on energy costs for lighting at a time when it was incredibly expensive by taking advantage of the summer, and to shift the typical work schedule to better aligned with solar time as the seasons change, so people could still enjoy the day after work.

In the future it will probably be abolished as work practices are relaxed in many industries and people just shift opening and closing times to suit, but 100 years ago it was much more difficult to quickly communicate this information, so a standardised practice helped a great deal.

 

[Blue For Life]

I've been posting the same for some time now.

Completely agree.

Getting belted every week stints development - not enhances it.

We need to give the guys the opportunity to implement the game plan and at least be competitive every week - that's when proper development will take place.

A list rebuild not only puts a side at the back of the que, more so building via drafting kids is approximately a 6 year investment.
All the noise coming out of the CFC suggests the club has the right personal making the right decisions moving the club upwards and onwards.
The young kids will get games when they are ready and SOS and BOLTS have brought in some experience which could be considered insurance on the kids but also to fill a need

You are right. it is why I specifically stated "The idea behind this is that wins will come if the process is right." (change of emphasis).

You are also right MM tried to instil his own processes. He needed to be given a chance to show they would work. They failed miserably in his first year as coach. They failed miserably in the first game against Port in his second year. They failed miserably up to midway through the second quarter against Richmond the following week. I joined the chicken little thread after that and didn't stop crowing until, as was inevitable, the sky did fall in.

By contrast I have loved every step that has been taken by SOS and BB on field and off . . . . up to picking AS. In the scheme of things it is a minor aberration (unless good reasons can be given for his recruitment) but it needs to be noted. We don't have to defend everything SOS and BB do to still love them round the place.

You claim there are good reasons, thus:



I am happy to accept for the sake of the argument that AS is a "hard bodied , blooded AFL backup who will plug critical spots in case of injury." I am happy to accept for the sake of the argument that AS will plug those spots beautifully, perhaps much better than the injured players he replaces.

I still don't see why we have recruited him. We are on a REBUILD. We have plenty of seasoned players on the list already that I don't think, for differing reasons, will be on the list long term - Rowe, White, Jaksch, Jones, Gorringe. I get the need to protect kids from being physically beat up but Plowman (5th season), Marchbank (3rd season) and W'ring (prodigy) are not really in that category. So have we recruited AS to protect JGM and Macreadie and Mckay? Give me a break.



So would I but what part of the phrase "Rebuild without taking short-cuts" do you not understand?



I agree there is a risk that kids will get scarred by multiple beltings. IMO that risk is increased by imposing unrealistic expectations on kids that they "need to win". IMO the risk that we would suffer multiple beltings was bigger last season than it would have been in 2017 without AS.

Why? Because last year we started the recruiting of our KPPs who, after ruckmen, take the longest to develop AFL hardened bodies. We went alright.

As you rightly acknowledge the good thing about losing, particularly losing badly, is that players learn what they need to improve on in order to be part of a flag-winning AFL side.

Since AS has not been recruited to be part of a flag-winning team (at least no one - least of all you - has yet suggested it), all his presence in the side will do is limit games for youngsters who might and prevent that necessary learning to occur.

And maybe we are better off finding out early which of our kids is going to crumble when things get tough so we can dump and reset on the rebuild path. Not all of our picks, regrettably, are likely to be out and out successes.

Losing on a consistent basis puts players in self preservation mode and when developing kids and now we have a large group of young inexperienced players, it will definitely do more harm than good.
Recruiting guys like Palmer and TCOS (third cousin of SOS) is insurance on the youngsters the club is investing in.
It's part and parcel of rebuilding the list.

 

[smashbox gill]

barass70 Marc Shmurf 3 deathanxiety do you have any info on the clubs (SOS and boltons) opinion on our draft

Who they were shocked slipped thru, who they rated where, who they missed out on etc????

 

[Cliper]

So would I but what part of the phrase "Rebuild without taking short-cuts" do you not understand?
.

Windhover, seems to me you are apportioning AS as THE shortcut, am i correct?
If so, how is spending virtually nothing on an experienced player a short cut? It's cost us nearly nothing draft wise, would have to pay someone for that list spot anyway.Who is he going to keep out? some other newbie? a kid?
As for we have other bodies,Rowe,White.. if they go down? Jones Jasch etc.. are not even in the equation due to differing roles they play.
I just cant see AS as a shortcut, Marchbank would have been such if we had coughed up our first pick but really, what have we got to lose?

 

[TheCoach16]

I'm not rural. Just don't like daylight savings. Don't see the point.

I'm with you... 8:30pm and it looks like noon outside, what sort of s**t is that ?!

 

[TerryWallet]

barass70 Marc Shmurf 3 deathanxiety do you have any info on the clubs (SOS and boltons) opinion on our draft

Who they were shocked slipped thru, who they rated where, who they missed out on etc????

smashbox, ep posted the day after the draft that we got the players we were hoping to except that we were planning to get Ed Philips with a later pick.

I am presuming that if we got Philips, we obviously would have passed over one of Kerr, Williamson or Polson.

Personally i am happy with the 3 we got over Philips, although i feel Kerr is only a real longshot. More than happy with Williamson and Polson though.

But anyways, hope that answers your query.

 

[Funk]

I think overriding all that has been said about the indigenous players, is respect. Respect for their playing abilities and certainly in the case of SPS respect for his dedication and leadership. I dont think anyone here intentionally posts anything derogatory towards an indigenous player -and i think that tends to get forgotten with all the grandstanding on both sides.

Agree - way too much grandstanding going on IMHO

 

[AB_Blue]

Not backwards.......lol
From the state that won't bring in daylight savings because it will upset the farmers and fade the curtains.

Daylight savings is s**t for farmers.....not so much now but Feb-March-April it's total crapola

 

[Chalky Blues]

Daylight savings is s**t for farmers.....not so much now but Feb-March-April it total crapola

Is this the old cows will get confused argument again? How could it possibly be s**t for farmers?

 

[thylacine60]

I think overriding all that has been said about the indigenous players, is respect. Respect for their playing abilities and certainly in the case of SPS respect for his dedication and leadership. I dont think anyone here intentionally posts anything derogatory towards an indigenous player -and i think that tends to get forgotten with all the grandstanding on both sides.

Kicked off in WW1 Germany I think. That's 100 years ago for those playing at home.