List Mgmt. 2016 Free Agency/Trades/Draft thread Part 2

[Deaneus!]

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...2=14&type=A&pid1=3858&pid2=3110&fid1=S&fid2=S

Note the disposal efficiencies.

Wow, they're practically the same player, except Rory has a +5% better disposal efficiency

One was pick 4, one was pick 81

Yikes

 

[ironside]

Has any club that has said they are willing to trade out a best 22 player, expecting other clubs to essentially bid, ever got a decent return?

 

[Vhaluus]

Last years trade period wasn't a failure. Every single thing you post about this club is negative. Trolllllllllllll

Did you even read my post?

IF we get Hartlett it would be admitting last years trade period was a failure.

But we aren't getting Hartlett because last years trade period wasn't a failure.

Rather than scream Troll at me constantly perhaps you should take some time to actually read my post, might keep some of the egg off your face.

 

[Vhaluus]

Wow, they're practically the same player, except Rory has a +5% better disposal efficiency

One was pick 4, one was pick 81

Yikes

In fairness Atkins would have gone a lot higher in the draft if it wasn't for a history of behavior issues.

 

[Roo Lives Again]

Did you even read my post?

IF we get Hartlett it would be admitting last years trade period was a failure.

But we aren't getting Hartlett because last years trade period wasn't a failure.

Rather than scream Troll at me constantly perhaps you should take some time to actually read my post, might keep some of the egg off your face.

I don't have any egg on my face. Everything you say is laced with negativity. Even if we got Hartlett it wouldn't be saying last years trade period was a failure. We've added players with speed and who can play in several positions. Stop making outlandish statements.

 

[Golumless]

In fairness Atkins would have gone a lot higher in the draft if it wasn't for a history of behavior issues.

Was touted as a top 30 pick, so we were quite lucky he had those issues.

 

[Jars458]

IF we get Hartlett it would be admitting last years trade period was a failure.

No it wouldn't. It would be admitting we think Hartlett improves our squad. Won't happen anyway.

 

[Golumless]

Did you even read my post?

IF we get Hartlett it would be admitting last years trade period was a failure.

But we aren't getting Hartlett because last years trade period wasn't a failure.

Rather than scream Troll at me constantly perhaps you should take some time to actually read my post, might keep some of the egg off your face.

Not really.

If we trade for Hartlett, we believe he can make a difference in pushing us to a premiership. It is completely irrelevant to our 2015 trades, as like all trades it's about opportunity.

I'm ok with getting Hartlett all up, had a good 2013-15 and is starting to stagnate ala Vince. May be the full time midfielder we're missing.

 

[Vader]

Last years trade period wasn't a failure. Every single thing you post about this club is negative. Trolllllllllllll

The jury is still well and truly out on whether or not last year's trading was a failure. It certainly hasn't been a roaring success in the short term.

Of the 4 players we traded in:

• Seedsman is the only one to have played an AFL game. He finishes the season outside the best 22, and only a 50/50 chance of being a "best 22" selection in 2017.
• Hampton missed a large chunk of the season through injury, and has never been considered for AFL selection as a result. Probably less than 50/50 to be "best 22" in 2017.
• Menzel was clearly unfit (by AFC standards) at the start of the season. Since then he's been concussed twice, and had a stop-start season courtesy of the SANFL fixturing. Has never been close to gaining AFL selection in 2016, and it's hard to see this changing in 2017.
• Gore hasn't really impressed much, even at SANFL level. Some posters have even suggested that he could be delisted (though I think that's unlikely). Unlikely to make it at AFL level.

That just leaves Milera (who was drafted using the pick we gained from Geelong). Milera played half the season, and definitely showed some promise. However, he does have a lot of work to do if he's to play in the AFL again next year (or beyond). Of the 5 players arriving as a result of last year's trading, he's by far the most likely to play 100 games for the AFC. Actually, he's probably the only one who is likely to play 100 games for the AFC.

If you call that a success, then I think you're kidding yourself. It's too early to call it a failure, but that's the way the scales are leaning.

** Doedee was drafted using our own 1st round draft pick, and his recruitment is/was not the result of trading.

 

[Vhaluus]

No it wouldn't. It would be admitting we think Hartlett improves our squad. Won't happen anyway.

If Hartlett improved our squad it would be because w don't believe Menzel, Milera and Hampton could do as well or better than him... therefore a failed trade period.

 

[Vhaluus]

The jury is still well and truly out on whether or not last year's trading was a failure. It certainly hasn't been a roaring success in the short term.

Of the 4 players we traded in:

• Seedsman is the only one to have played an AFL game. He finishes the season outside the best 22, and only a 50/50 chance of being a "best 22" selection in 2017.
• Hampton missed a large chunk of the season through injury, and has never been considered for AFL selection as a result. Probably less than 50/50 to be "best 22" in 2017.
• Menzel was clearly unfit (by AFC standards) at the start of the season. Since then he's been concussed twice, and had a stop-start season courtesy of the SANFL fixturing. Has never been close to gaining AFL selection in 2016, and it's hard to see this changing in 2017.
• Gore hasn't really impressed much, even at SANFL level. Some posters have even suggested that he could be delisted (though I think that's unlikely). Unlikely to make it at AFL level.

That just leaves Milera (who was drafted using the pick we gained from Geelong). Milera played half the season, and definitely showed some promise. However, he does have a lot of work to do if he's to play in the AFL again next year (or beyond). Of the 5 players arriving as a result of last year's trading, he's by far the most likely to play 100 games for the AFC. Actually, he's probably the only one who is likely to play 100 games for the AFC.

If you call that a success, then I think you're kidding yourself. It's too early to call it a failure, but that's the way the scales are leaning.

** Doedee was drafted using our own 1st round draft pick, and his recruitment is/was not the result of trading.

I actually see Hampton and Menzel as more likely to be best 22 than Seedsman, injuries have just been very unfortunate for them. Seedsman however hasn't really been much more than a potential marginal upgrade on Mackay/Henderson.

 

[Vader]

I actually see Hampton and Menzel as more likely to be best 22 than Seedsman, injuries have just been very unfortunate for them. Seedsman however hasn't really been much more than a potential marginal upgrade on Mackay/Henderson.

I don't think the club sees him as an upgrade on either of them. Maybe at the start of the season, but it clearly hasn't been the case for a while now.

 

[Vhaluus]

I don't think the club sees him as an upgrade on either of them. Maybe at the start of the season, but it clearly hasn't been the case for a while now.

well that just furthers my point. Menzel and Hampton if they play up to their potential can be big additions to our side, Seedsman is either not an upgrade or a marginal upgrade.

 

[Pugsley]

Methinks you doth protest too much

I just find it easier to take the Khyber Pass.

 

[MRB37]

All I hope for is that Hartlett isn't the "best 22" player they're targeting. If he's our big in and we lose Lyons, CEY, Henderson, Otten, Grigg then that's culling our depth for a marginal at best upgrade to our 22. We can't expect an injury run like this year every year.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

They would have had $700k spare for Carlisle who didnt sign last year.
This year they wouldnt hvae had to meet minimum payment requirements surely.

Carlisle wasn't getting anywhere near this at Essendon .......and i doubt he's getting that much at St Kilda

Whatever cash was saved by trading Carlisle, has been already eaten up in overpaying players on contracts to woo them back ......how much extra do you think Essendon are paying Hurley on his new contract versus the contract he was on b4 suspended? ....maybe an extra $75K per year?

 

[WaynesWorld19]

You don't think he's worth $400k?

I said i don't think he's being paid that .....i would imagine Mackay would be on the same line of $ Contract as Henderson & that it's normal to trade down the $$$$ for length of contract

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Hendo is unrestricted. Mackay was restricted when last out of contract. Not similar at all

That has nothing to do with the value of their contracts pre-qualifying for Free Agency

 

[Iron]

Yeah I think if we get Hartlett we're pretty much admitting that last years trade period was a failure.

Hartlett wasn't available last year. If a better option knocks on your door a year later, it doesn't mean the decision you made was the wrong one. If you truly look at life through that sort of lens, my god.

 

[arrowman]

All I hope for is that Hartlett isn't the "best 22" player they're targeting. If he's our big in and we lose Lyons, CEY, Henderson, Otten, Grigg then that's culling our depth for a marginal at best upgrade to our 22. We can't expect an injury run like this year every year.

My gut feel about how we will approach this year's trade/draft:

Last year (and previously) we brought in quite a lot of players who have the potential to be first 22 - B grade or A grade - in 2017 and beyond.
Hampton/CEY/Doedee/Milera/Gore/Seedsman/Wigg/Knight and so on.

All players out of our current 22, and all with the potential to play roles - some hopefully significant - in our next best 22.

(I know some posters have expressed negative views about how many on that list will make it, but let's assume for the moment that the club at least has a view that some or most of them will hit the mark to some degree.)

So, it seems to me that our list is pretty well stocked with that sort of player, and therefore I would expect that this year we will either (or both)
1. Package up some of these players and maybe a draft pick to land a Big Fish - a ready-made A grader - or
2. Just do the draft (maybe trading for a pick upgrade / get in to the second round)

What I don't see us doing is repeating the 2015 trade period in terms of bringing in more "second string / potential" players.

 

[Vhaluus]

Hartlett wasn't available last year. If a better option knocks on your door a year later, it doesn't mean the decision you made was the wrong one. If you truly look at life through that sort of lens, my god.

Please read all the rest of my comments in here before you bother to respond and waste my time. Hartlett shouldn't be best 22 if Menzel, Milera and Hampton perform as we are expecting.

 

[MRB37]

My gut feel about how we will approach this year's trade/draft:

Last year (and previously) we brought in quite a lot of players who have the potential to be first 22 - B grade or A grade - in 2017 and beyond.
Hampton/CEY/Doedee/Milera/Gore/Seedsman/Wigg/Knight and so on.

All players out of our current 22, and all with the potential to play roles - some hopefully significant - in our next best 22.

(I know some posters have expressed negative views about how many on that list will make it, but let's assume for the moment that the club at least has a view that some or most of them will hit the mark to some degree.)

So, it seems to me that our list is pretty well stocked with that sort of player, and therefore I would expect that this year we will either (or both)
1. Package up some of these players and maybe a draft pick to land a Big Fish - a ready-made A grader - or
2. Just do the draft (maybe trading for a pick upgrade / get in to the second round)

What I don't see us doing is repeating the 2015 trade period in terms of bringing in more "second string / potential" players.

I'm fine with all that IF we land an A grader. I don't think Hartlett is that.

 

[DangerSloane]

Carlisle wasn't getting anywhere near this at Essendon .......and i doubt he's getting that much at St Kilda

Whatever cash was saved by trading Carlisle, has been already eaten up in overpaying players on contracts to woo them back ......how much extra do you think Essendon are paying Hurley on his new contract versus the contract he was on b4 suspended? ....maybe an extra $75K per year?

He absolutely is getting that much at St Kilda...

Unless his salary has been cut due to his coke habits.

 

[Iron]

Please read all the rest of my comments in here before you bother to respond and waste my time. Hartlett shouldn't be best 22 if Menzel, Milera and Hampton perform as we are expecting.

Lord almighty. The part I'm contending is the only part of your post that mattered - Hartlett is better than you give him credit for.

 

[Team DJ]

He absolutely is getting that much at St Kilda...

Unless his salary has been cut due to his coke habits.

The general public obviously have no idea or choose not believe how rife Cocaine is in the AL industry.