List Mgmt. 2016 Free Agency/Trades/Draft thread Part 2

[Bacon8]

We dont hvae a 2nd rounder.

We also already have Hampton. The point of that was the net movement over 2 years.

 

[Uber poster]

McKenzie, Durdin, 29

For Lyons, 15, 33

 

[GROTTO]

No they wouldn't, they have a better midfield than us

If Hartlett is pushed out, CEY would add to their depth. He would definitely be in their 22.

 

[Danger in Texas]

McKenzie, Durdin, 29

For Lyons, 15, 33

 

[Vhaluus]

McKenzie, Durdin, 29

For Lyons, 15, 33

Hard pass.

 

[DangerSloane]

I will roll a fermented herring in dog hair and snort it if this actually happens

Noted.

 

[Bacon8]

Criminal how underrated Lyons is amongst his own fanbase.

Calling it - if the club offloads him and he's given significant minutes in the middle at his new club then he'll prove himself to be an exceptional AFL footballer.

If we push this bloke out and then commit to Thompson for another year then it may just be the straw that breaks the camels back.

If we wanted to keep Thommo, he'd be signed already.

I think it's reversed. We want to keep Lyons, but not at an exaggerated price. We are waiting to see what he's doing. If he decides to leave, then his contract goes to Thommo. If Lyons stays, then Thommo doesn't get a deal.

So IMO it's Lyons holding up Thommo, not Thommo holding up Lyons.

 

[GreyCrow]

EC I don't understand this logic. We can't get the Academy players anyway - we would get the 29th non-academy player available with pick 29. Pick 29 is pick 29.

We are getting the 35th best player in the draft.

Its still a pick 29 if we give it away. We are not giving someone pick 35 ''coz academy and yeah'' . We are trading pick 29. ( if that is the reasoning behind it)

 

[Large 1]

We are getting the 35th best player in the draft.

I keep seeing this. but I just don't think it will be true that pick 29 will push out far at all. In fact it could be the opposite!

Academy teams can only take as many picks into the draft as the have spots on their list. So they aren't going to be upgrading a lot of deep picks, and it only matters if they 'upgrade' picks that are greater than 29 (in this specific example).

To do this, the academy (or father/son) player would need to be picked before,or at, 29 BUT after the teams last pick prior to 29 (confusing, I know). For example GWS Curren lynhave picks 7, 15ish and 17ish. Therefore, for them to push in front of pick 29 they would have to take an academy player who was picked between 18 and 29. GC's last pick before 29 is 27. Brisbane's is 28 and Sydney's will be from 15-18. There is not a lot of room to upgrade prior to 29 for those teams.

Also in the case of Brisbane and GC, their picks 27 and 28 may be downgraded if they need points to upgrade their earlier picks. Hence 29 could go ahead of one or two of those.

 

[DangerSloane]

I doubt it would be that tbh. Pick 15 instead of pick 11 at the start of our rebuild wouldn't be in our club's best interest. Even though Lyons is worth more than 29, we aren't losing the opportunity to pick up a good player at 11.

Wont it depend on who you're looking at in the draft.
If your main target at 11 is going to be there at 15, you wouldnt be dumb to swap.

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

I keep seeing this. but I just don't think it will be true that pick 29 will push out far at all. In fact it could be the opposite!

Academy teams can only take as many picks into the draft as the have spots on their list. So they aren't going to be upgrading a lot of deep picks, and it only matters if they 'upgrade' picks that are greater than 29 (in this specific example).

To do this, the academy (or father/son) player would need to be picked before,or at, 29 BUT after the teams last pick prior to 29 (confusing, I know). For example GWS Curren lynhave picks 7, 15ish and 17ish. Therefore, for them to push in front of pick 29 they would have to take an academy player who was picked between 18 and 29. GC's last pick before 29 is 27. Brisbane's is 28 and Sydney's will be from 15-18. There is not a lot of room to upgrade prior to 29 for those teams.

Also in the case of Brisbane and GC, their picks 27 and 28 may be downgraded if they need points to upgrade their earlier picks. Hence 29 could go ahead of one or two of those.

That last sentence is a very good point on the implication of the amended bidding system.

 

[Scorpus]

McKenzie, Durdin, 29

For Lyons, 15, 33

We don't need either of those players, especially Durdin.

On top of that we don't have pick 33

 

[Vhaluus]

We don't need either of those players, especially Durdin.

On top of that we don't have pick 33

He wants to trade us their cast off junk for a best 22 player at both clubs... then as if that's not enough he wants an extra pick AND an upgrade on another pick.

If we didn't give them 15, just Lyons and 33 we'd still be getting ripped off.

It's just an idiotic post that isn't worth any serious consideration.

 

[Peter Doherty]

Independent events and Hampton remains speculative anyway. If you have a deep desire to see positive results and it requires joining unjoinable events, which you obviously do and will, then you need to wait a bit to see where Hampton ends up.

How often do we hear footy insiders talk in regards to trades about the big picture. Deals are not done in isolation. I'm not saying Lyons to North was locked in last year. Just before people criticise the Hampton deal and losing a 2nd rounder maybe they hold off, because JL out, Hampton in AND we upgrade our 2nd rounder is a good deal, in my opinion.

 

[Uber poster]

He wants to trade us their cast off junk for a best 22 player at both clubs... then as if that's not enough he wants an extra pick AND an upgrade on another pick.

If we didn't give them 15, just Lyons and 33 we'd still be getting ripped off.

It's just an idiotic post that isn't worth any serious consideration.

Cast off junk? Big men take time and mckenzie has an elite left food. Durdin had an injury played forst season and was tipped to go #6 in his draft year.

Two up an coming platers for a guy that isn't in your best 22.

I think a pick in the mid 30's is good enough. Just like it was when jacobs left port. We got 25 for greenwood and he finished equal 2nd in our B&F in a year we made a prelim. Lyon would be lucky to finish in the top 15 of your b&f this year.

 

[Peter Doherty]

We dont hvae a 2nd rounder.

The point I was making was we traded Hampton for this year's 2nd rouder, if we get North's 2nd rounder it's basically JL for Hampton AND we upgrade our 2nd rounder.

 

[Elite Crow]

Cast off junk? Big men take time and mckenzie has an elite left food. Durdin had an injury played forst season and was tipped to go #6 in his draft year.

Two up an coming platers for a guy that isn't in your best 22.

I think a pick in the mid 30's is good enough. Just like it was when jacobs left port. We got 25 for greenwood and he finished equal 2nd in our B&F in a year we made a prelim. Lyon would be lucky to finish in the top 15 of your b&f this year.

He's not in our best 22? When was the last time he missed a game?

 

[Vhaluus]

Cast off junk? Big men take time and mckenzie has an elite left food. Durdin had an injury played forst season and was tipped to go #6 in his draft year.

Two up an coming platers for a guy that isn't in your best 22.

I think a pick in the mid 30's is good enough. Just like it was when jacobs left port. We got 25 for greenwood and he finished equal 2nd in our B&F in a year we made a prelim. Lyon would be lucky to finish in the top 15 of your b&f this year.

Isn't in our best 22? He has been in our best 22 all year.

Just because your club accepted shitty trades for a player that finished 2nd in your B&F doesn't mean our club is as dumb.

It doesn't matter what durdin was tipped to go because he didn't, he went for pick #16.

Mckenzie meanwhile would actually be worse than Mackay.. so no way he's ever getting a spot in our best 22, just pure junk as a player.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...2=13&type=A&pid1=1766&pid2=3656&fid1=S&fid2=S

There is a stats comparison of Mackay, the worst player in our 22 to McKenzie.... Mackay contributes significantly more for less TOG.

 

[1970crow]

Time will tell which of us is correct, I still think he has a lot of growth in his game.

Agree with this. A genuine inside mid being forced to pinch hit so a cooked one dimensional stalwart can limp to the end of his career in the only role he can play. Still averages 20 touches and gets involved in plenty of scoring chains. I can't see how anyone can doubt there remains improvement in him.

 

[Peter Doherty]

We also already have Hampton. The point of that was the net movement over 2 years.

This is a concept which is well known inside footy clubs but most fans are naive to, so they criticise. The Lever pick trade is another that is a accepted concept within clubs and practiced in the US but most fans here can't get their head around, so they criticise.

 

[Drewie11]

The point I was making was we traded Hampton for this year's 2nd rouder, if we get North's 2nd rounder it's basically JL for Hampton AND we upgrade our 2nd rounder.

Wouldn't it be hampton and Lyons for 2 2nd rounders????

 

[bigman]

Getting rid of Lyons is a mistake particularly for a player like Rockliff. I like Rocky but Lyons this year has been better than him and he does not provide the quick moving elusive mid fielder we need to complement our other players. We need a young Daniel Wells type to mix up our midfield. I honestly hope JL stays but it is apparent that Pykey or others feel we have too much of the same type of player and need a better mix in there.

If it was me I would ask Thommo to retire and try and extricate a Devon Smith from GWS. Just the type of player we need. I would keep JL. He has been one of the best players at hitting targets going forward we have this year in our mids.

Sometimes the grass is greener on the other side.

 

[Peter Doherty]

Wouldn't it be hampton and Lyons for 2 2nd rounders????

We traded our 2016 2nd rounder out last year and this year might get North's 2016 2nd rounder in, which would be an upgrade for us.

 

[Drewie11]

We traded our 2016 2nd rounder out last year and this year might get North's 2016 2nd rounder in, which would be an upgrade for us.

Yes but it's not Lyons for Hampton and upgrading our 2nd.

It is hampton for a 2nd round pick and
Lyons for a 2nd round pick.

It is 2 trades

 

[huludicidal]

Cast off junk? Big men take time and mckenzie has an elite left food. Durdin had an injury played forst season and was tipped to go #6 in his draft year.

Two up an coming platers for a guy that isn't in your best 22.

I think a pick in the mid 30's is good enough. Just like it was when jacobs left port. We got 25 for greenwood and he finished equal 2nd in our B&F in a year we made a prelim. Lyon would be lucky to finish in the top 15 of your b&f this year.

First of all, McKenzie is junk. Chances of him reaching 50 AFL games are dwindling by the second. He is your version of Mitch Grigg, right down to his left boot being his one and only weapon. Not AFL standard. He'd likely be delisted if you didn't have so many retirees and Aaron Black / Nahas freeing up so many spots.

Durdin is a question mark. Maybe he'll develop into a nice player, maybe he won't. We didn't want him on draft day despite him being a local lad, and we took Lever instead. Don't think we're even close to changing our minds on that one, and we have no need for Durdin now with the emergence of Lever, Hartigan and very promising youngsters such as Keath and Doedee waiting in the wings for our defence. He's certainly not required up forward either.

Lyons will be top 12 in our B&F this year, well above the likes of Mackay, Thompson, Cameron and probably even Brodie Smith. Where will McKenzie come in yours?

Ben Jacobs at Port never approached a season of the standard Lyons has just put up. Lyons is worth a pick in the early to mid 20s, and even then I'll be gutted to lose him.

Who knows, maybe Dumont is looking to come back to SA and it'll be a straight swap. I quite like Dumont, but its a case of better the devil you know there. Would rather keep Lyons.