List Mgmt. 2016 Free Agency/Trades/Draft thread Part 2

[GreyCrow]

It'd be pretty rough for him to get a cab home here after a night out so makes sense.

Best thing about this post. Uber poster liked it

 

[GreyCrow]

Posted yesterday, he re-signed today.

Erp

 

[1970crow]

That's a big call, given how poorly he polled in the AFLCA voting this year.

Of the players you named...
Thompson - 22 votes (8th)
Smith - 18 votes (10th)
Cameron - 11 votes (12th)
Lyons - 1 vote (equal 20th)
Mackay - 0 votes

Rankings are where they finished on Adelaide's ladder - not the competition overall. AFLCA voting is relevant because it's decided by the same people who do the B&F votes - the coaches.

It's safe to say that the Pyke in particular doesn't share BigFooty's love for Lyons, and don't rate him anywhere near as highly as many posters here on BigFooty. By extension, it's highly likely that the assistant coaches will have a similar view.

I would be very, very surprised if Lyons finishes in the top-12 in the B&F this year. He will almost certainly finish ahead of Mackay, but it's highly unlikely that he'll poll more votes than Thompson, Smith or Cameron.

The fact that the coach (possibly coaches) doesn't rate him very highly is probably a good part of the reason why the contract he's been offered is (allegedly) so low, and why the club would (allegedly) be willing to trade him if given the option.

Except there's a reason that b&f' aren't just 5,4,3,2,1 these days. Thommo polled enormously in the first 6 rounds and some had him certain to go around in 2018 off the back of it. Will barely poll for the rest of the year outside a couple of games. Lyons will poll consistently throughout the year and will be a fair chance to catch Thommo.

 

[Shoota Welsh]

wait is rockliff to the crows actually a thing? definitely a need and would make our midfield half good considering thompson needs to go.

 

[Vhaluus]

wait is rockliff to the crows actually a thing? definitely a need and would make our midfield half good considering thompson needs to go.

All realistic reports say no, he's staying at Brisbane.. but fans keep clinging to any vague scrap they can to keep the hope alive.

I wouldn't give it any credence.

 

[cammo6556]

All realistic reports say no, he's staying at Brisbane.. but fans keep clinging to any vague scrap they can to keep the hope alive.

I wouldn't give it any credence.

Ah cmon... even wet blankets can become dry with enough sunlight.

 

[NikkiNoo]

Im willing to bet you all of Nikki's socks that Lyons will get more votes than Charlie this year. Why? Because our voting system for the B&F is totally different to the CA award.

Dammit you had to include ALL my socks didn't you? I'm very fond of my Wizard of Oz ones. I will be very mad at you if I have to give them up.

 

[Vhaluus]

Ah cmon... even wet blankets can become dry with enough sunlight.

Look I'd love to grab him... but the question posed was about if it is a real thing, so I was giving him an honest response based on the information we have.

It's great to dream and I'm all for it, but I'm not going to fill his head with false hope when he's trying to work out how realistic the idea is.

 

[Tyls83]

North fans need to remember what they gave up for 10 gamer Jed Anderson. Despite contrary beliefs within the AFL, playing for box hill doesn't make you more valuable than a first 22 mid at a top 6 club.

 

[TexForPM]

What's irritating is that the facts don't match up with your fantasy. You can't do the mental gymnastics required to cope with the real world being different from your fantasy.

You two are both irritating me this morning.
talk about grinding each others gears. Would love to see you in the same room.

 

[NikkiNoo]

The B&F Top 5 at AFC last year came 1st, 8th, 5th, 6th & 4th in the AFLCA.

The AFLCA votes had Thommo as our 2nd best - came 7th in the B&F.

Mackay was 11th in the AFLCA leaderboard for us, yet soundly beaten by many in the B&F.

CC was 10th in the B&F, 13th on AFLCA with 6 votes. If Lyons came 15th in AFLCA, he could be top 12 in the B&F - AFLCA doesn't count Finals either, and Lyons was close to BOG last week.


My favourite that I found:

10 CARLTON V ADELAIDE
9 – Josh Jenkins (Adel)
9 – Marc Murphy (Carl)
4 – Rory Laird (Adel)
3 – Scott Thompson (Adel)
2 – Patrick Cripps (Carl)
2 – Kade Simpson (Carl)
1 – Zach Tuohy (Carl)

Round 10 v Carlton
Jenkins 24, Laird 20, Dangerfield 14, Lynch 12, Brown 10, Jacobs 10, Hartigan 6, Smith 5, van Berlo 4, Wright 4, Thompson 3, Grigg 2, Sloane 1

It's a STRONG correlation Bacon. He got 3 in both voting! You can't get much stronger than that!

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

North fans need to remember what they gave up for 10 gamer Jed Anderson. Despite contrary beliefs within the AFL, playing for box hill doesn't make you more valuable than a first 22 mid at a top 6 club.

Posters are constantly reminding us of that trade, so we don't need any more reminders. He'll get the game time from us. It'll be a 20s pick from either us or part of a deal involving the brions.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Posters are constantly reminding us of that trade, so we don't need any more reminders. You are not going to get a first rounder from us for Lyons not matter how you contextualise it. It'll be a 20s pick from either us or part of a deal involving the brions.

who the hell suggested a first round pick for Lyons? ....that's madness

If we get pick 29, that would be an excellent result for us in all honesty

 

[big78sam]

Posters are constantly reminding us of that trade, so we don't need any more reminders. You are not going to get a first rounder from us for Lyons not matter how you contextualise it. It'll be a 20s pick from either us or part of a deal involving the brions.

To me, that seems fair (20s). I'd say crows would push for next years 2nd rounder unless they need one this year for other deals. Next year's draft is said to be a "super draft" and north's 2nd will likely be earlier next year.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

who the hell suggested a first round pick for Lyons? ....that's madness

If we get pick 29, that would be an excellent result for us in all honesty

My apologies, he compared it to the Anderson trade which was a first rounder, with improved picks equaling a mid 20's pick.

 

[baldandbroke]

I agree with your thinking but disagree with your reasoning in this scenario.

If you want to talk continuous improvement, player upgrades and being ruthless, then lets have a look at a cooked Scott Thompson who is currently filling the role Jarryd Lyons could/should be playing and would perform to a far higher level than Thompson is physically able. Club champion aside, Thompson's only elite attribute that remains is his footy smarts. Due to sheer pigheadedness/dumb loyalty we've elected to continue with Thompson and ignore natural replacements (Lyons, CEY et al).

You can't then say we're being ruthless when Lyons is a logical replacement for a weaker footballer in the lineup that we appear willing to persist with.

If our club was taking a consistently ruthless stance across the board in the same mould as a Hawthorn or Geelong and felt that Lyons was part of the discussion requiring upgrading I could understand the thinking, but there are other examples within our own lineup of underperforming footballers who prove this isn't the case (see Douglas and Mackay).

I didn't know that Thommo had signed on for 2017. Thought that was just classic BF conjecture? And when has Thommo taken Lyon's spot recently - Lyons has been in the middle plenty in 2016?

I expect Thompson to retire at the end of our season, or at the very least step back to SANFL as a very cheap back-up. Douglas is only a small step behind him as well.

The big difference is that Cheney was not best 22 for them. Surplus to requirements with Gibson, Lake and then Frawley. Akin to us trading Jake Kelly. Anderson was hardly best 22 either. Hawthorn are just fortunate their lesser players command high prices due to Hawthorn's strength.

Lyons is best 22 for us, and has probably been our third best midfielder this season, behind only Sloane and Matt Crouch. It's been apparent this year that we have a lack of quality pure midfielders, let alone ones who hit the scoreboard as well. This has been our biggest weakness for me this year.

Since we have played our oldies Thompson and van Berlo over potential replacements like Wigg and Ellis-Yolmen, we can't be so arrogant as to think that these guys will immediately step up and fill Lyons' void. Not to mention they might also request a trade if we decide to give Thompson another year, because our past selection indicates they won't be getting a game soon.

Also consider the great message it sends to our playing list and our supporters who want loyalty from the players. Lyons is a player I respect enormously for the character he has shown, staying loyal to the Crows and trying to improve himself rather than requesting a trade for more opportunities, when nobody would blame him for doing the latter. But nope, we would rather kick him to the kerb for a late second rounder once his value has increased. We don't need more average draft picks. We need established players to complement Sloane, Lyons and the Crouches in the middle.

Maybe this would be acceptable if we are getting a big fish like Rockliff or something fairly above his value like a first round pick, but I think it would be a terrible decision to trade him for a second round pick who we would spend years developing and may not even become as good as Lyons.

I think the problem with your logic is that you are saying we will get the same for Lyons that the Hawks got for the Cheney deal - I don't think so. Also, we will have to trade in someone like Rockliff - whereas the Hawks got Frawley as a Free Agent. The terms are very very different (as you point out) - but the principle is the same. Get a better player for a position - move on the lowest ranked player in that group - improve your list and best 22.

If we get Rockliff - who would you move out of our midfield group? Has to be Lyons. Sloane / MCrouch / BCrouch / Rockliff. That is a pretty good looking tough combative mix - when you factor in outside players like Milera, Hampton, Knight, Cameron that we have on our list - and the likes of Gore / Wigg that are coming through ... surely the player that is least required and has the most currency is Lyons. He has currency because he is a good player, and that is what the good teams do - they move good players (like Cheney / Lyons) on when a better player (Frawley / Rockliff) become available.

I suppose the other factor that isn't being considered is what Lyons wants. 4 years and much better coin? Stand out of the way and let him move on. There is no way he is worth that to us right now.

I don't think too many AFC supporters don't see that Lyons is AFL grade. I also don't think too many will mind if he moves on for greener pastures and we replace him directly with someone who is more talented and a better player.

 

[Roo Lives Again]

I have never posted a trade rumour in 8 or 9 years of bigfooty but heard this so thought I'd post it. I cannot confirm the veracity of this.

The story is that a deal was agreed in principle yesterday for a 1st rounder plus either a 2nd rounder (traded or next year's I guess) or a player for Rockliff.

Comes from a footy journo who belongs to an organization that is a tier below the news limited/Fairfax journos. He wouldn't reveal his source so take it with a grain of salt.

That would be a big win for Brisbane

 

[Mismatched]

I have never posted a trade rumour in 8 or 9 years of bigfooty but heard this so thought I'd post it. I cannot confirm the veracity of this.

The story is that a deal was agreed in principle yesterday for a 1st rounder plus either a 2nd rounder (traded or next year's I guess) or a player for Rockliff.

Comes from a footy journo who belongs to an organization that is a tier below the news limited/Fairfax journos. He wouldn't reveal his source so take it with a grain of salt.

Does seem to be a bit of smoke surrounding this one, so who knows, we might be in with a shot. Certainly our approach to Lyons and Thommo suggests there's something blowing in the wind.

 

[Tyls83]

I promise not to mention Jed Anderson again [emoji23]

 

[TexForPM]

Criminal how underrated Lyons is amongst his own fanbase.

Calling it - if the club offloads him and he's given significant minutes in the middle at his new club then he'll prove himself to be an exceptional AFL footballer.

If we push this bloke out and then commit to Thompson for another year then it may just be the straw that breaks the camels back.

If he is pushed out for a draft pick I agree. However, if we land a big name then it's a great move.

 

[Mismatched]

All realistic reports say no, he's staying at Brisbane.. but fans keep clinging to any vague scrap they can to keep the hope alive.

I wouldn't give it any credence.

It's playing out very similar to Menzel was last year, some fluf early that was quickly shut down, simmered along with nothing getting out until half way through trade week. I spoke to someone involved in the trade and there was a lot of background work happening to get the trade done whilst Menzels manager was swearing black and blue to the media that he was going no where.

Not saying it will happen, and I'm certainly not getting my hopes up, but there's plenty to suggest it's a possibility.

 

[Vhaluus]

It's playing out very similar to Menzel was last year, some fluf early that was quickly shut down, simmered along with nothing getting out until half way through trade week. I spoke to someone involved in the trade and there was a lot of background work happening to get the trade done whilst Menzels manager was swearing black and blue to the media that he was going no where.

Not saying it will happen, and I'm certainly not getting my hopes up, but there's plenty to suggest it's a possibility.

You might be right... I really wish we didn't have to lose Lyons for it though.

 

[ad victoriam]

It's good that their having to pay fair price but theirs no doubt that our pick gets pushed back and 29 will become approximately the 35th player picked in the draft

That pick 35 will most likely be the 25th best Vic, SA or WA kid. there are about 10 kids from the eastern states that will be pick up and 2 father sons. Then remove the picks required for Points. It balances out.
Thats a Graham or Scharenberg, plus a few Vic's that Bicks can add. And I would take a 19 year old Scharenberg for a 24 year old Lyons any day. One will be a Good Player one will be a great player.

 

[Elite Crow]

You might be right... I really wish we didn't have to lose Lyons for it though.

We shouldn't have to. CEY and our first should be enough.

Thommo should be retiring and Rockliff plays in his spot.

 

[Danoz]

The B&F Top 5 at AFC last year came 1st, 8th, 5th, 6th & 4th in the AFLCA.

The AFLCA votes had Thommo as our 2nd best - came 7th in the B&F.

Mackay was 11th in the AFLCA leaderboard for us, yet soundly beaten by many in the B&F.

CC was 10th in the B&F, 13th on AFLCA with 6 votes. If Lyons came 15th in AFLCA, he could be top 12 in the B&F - AFLCA doesn't count Finals either, and Lyons was close to BOG last week.


My favourite that I found:

10 CARLTON V ADELAIDE
9 – Josh Jenkins (Adel)
9 – Marc Murphy (Carl)
4 – Rory Laird (Adel)
3 – Scott Thompson (Adel)
2 – Patrick Cripps (Carl)
2 – Kade Simpson (Carl)
1 – Zach Tuohy (Carl)

Round 10 v Carlton
Jenkins 24, Laird 20, Dangerfield 14, Lynch 12, Brown 10, Jacobs 10, Hartigan 6, Smith 5, van Berlo 4, Wright 4, Thompson 3, Grigg 2, Sloane 1

You need to remember that the opposition coach votes are half the AFLCA votes. Malthouse/Barker obviously thought Thommo was good in that game, our coach maybe not so much?