List Mgmt. 2016 List Management: Contracts, Trading, Drafting, Academy

[Glen Buterol]

Nothwithstanding the previous comments ... the Saints' board is always good value for a chuckle ... so -

GWS put a price of 2 first round picks on Treloar (who would have been presumably the equivalent of a top 5 pick originally), who was out of contract, and it ended up as 2 firsts plus a fourth round pick with a second round pick going back. McCarthy, with 2 years left on contract, was allegedly 2 first round picks, but rejected (presumably due to value beyond trade & time left on contract.)

So, Lachie is a #1 draft pick, never out of the team except for injury, now with 54 games and likely to be about 70 by season's end. Possibly hasn't hit the heights we would have liked, but a really talented outside runner nonetheless, and in time we'd expect him to be very very good. I reckon that GWS would ask for 2 first round picks (this year + a future pick) as a starting point, no question. Then it would be up to Saints to negotiate from there - possibly down to first + second round picks or a second round GWS pick going back. I understand an argument that Whitfield is an outside mid versus Treloar's inside value, so not worth as much. But, I don't think that GWS would make it easy for Saints like they did with Plowman for the Blues - Lachie W is highly valued and a first team fixture. Not going to be cheap, and I wouldn't think a single first round pick would do it (or equivalent in points). And I don't think the threat of PSD would hold much - Lachie strikes me as the honourable type.

And having just had a quick look at the Saints' discussion, I'd be doubtful that GWS would be willing to package Jack Steele and Lachie for a cheap package deal. They'd definitely be worth more separate. Points for academy kids are already assured, so GWS won't be desperate to sell at any price.

Have at it!

Thank you

 

[Turbocat]

I thought it was Richmond sniffing around Marchbank - or was it St Kilda? Or was it Whitfield? Maybe Tomlinson.

Somebody needs to do a spreadsheet or diagram. Keep track of which Giants players are going to which club at any given moment.

Might look something like.....
View attachment 234634

Anyway - this week it's Marchbank and Carlton. Can't wait 'til next week.

Ichabod .. I cant deny these type of rumours are plentiful and quite often as solid as soft butter... Its just when the reporter (Sam Mclure) mentioned that Carlton were looking at him.. I thought that the Blues had already had pinched a few off you.

 

[Ichabod Noodle]

I thought that the Blues had already had pinched a few off you.

We don't call 'em the WSU Blues for nothing

 

[West Is Best]

I'm talking now. Those kids are years away from being dominant inside mids. GWS need results now

I'm all for going out and grabbing a big name.

As long as the price is right.

 

[Danny88]

I'm all for going out and grabbing a big name.

As long as the price is right.

That's the key... I'm not ok with throwing 7-800k at a player... What we really need is a good run at finals, get the 'team on the rise' tag and have players take a little less to be part of success

 

[kulak]

That's the key... I'm not ok with throwing 7-800k at a player... What we really need is a good run at finals, get the 'team on the rise' tag and have players take a little less to be part of success

I want to keep Dylan Shiel, Jeremy Cameron and Josh Kelly, at almost any cost. Happy for Toby Greene, WHE, even Tom Scully, various others who are good but not great, to move on if needed to create salary cap space to keep our stars & potential stars. We have lots of kids coming through who need room in the team to develop.

Toby Greene may be better than Tom Steele today, but I would rather have Tom Steele in the team to develop, and space in the salary cap to resign Dylan Shiel on a bumper long-term contract.

That said, if there is a genuine difference-maker available like Heppell, sure why not...but still only if it doesn't cost us any of Shiel / Cameron / Kelly.

 

[Determinant]

I want to keep Dylan Shiel, Jeremy Cameron and Josh Kelly, at almost any cost. Happy for Toby Greene, WHE, even Tom Scully, various others who are good but not great, to move on if needed to create salary cap space to keep our stars & potential stars. We have lots of kids coming through who need room in the team to develop.

Toby Greene may be better than Tom Steele today, but I would rather have Tom Steele in the team to develop, and space in the salary cap to resign Dylan Shiel on a bumper long-term contract.

That said, if there is a genuine difference-maker available like Heppell, sure why not...but still only if it doesn't cost us any of Shiel / Cameron / Kelly.

I think you invented Tom Steele

 

[Ichabod Noodle]

I want to keep Dylan Shiel, Jeremy Cameron and Josh Kelly, at almost any cost. Happy for Toby Greene, WHE, even Tom Scully, various others who are good but not great, to move on if needed to create salary cap space to keep our stars & potential stars. We have lots of kids coming through who need room in the team to develop.

Toby Greene may be better than Tom Steele today, but I would rather have Tom Steele in the team to develop, and space in the salary cap to resign Dylan Shiel on a bumper long-term contract.

That said, if there is a genuine difference-maker available like Heppell, sure why not...but still only if it doesn't cost us any of Shiel / Cameron / Kelly.

Jack Steele

 

[kulak]

I think you invented Tom Steele

IF WE DON'T RESIGN TOM STEELE I'M TEARING UP MY MEMBERSHIP

 

[Colonial]

IF WE DON'T RESIGN TOM STEELE I'M TEARING UP MY MEMBERSHIP

I think i have been gone longer than 3 weeks.

Whose Tom Steele and when did we sign him?

 

[Ellie Aquitaine]

Tom Steele - Academy kid who was born a stone's throw from the MCG, raised by wolves in the Snowy Mountains until discovered by Kevin Sheedy when he was on a spruiking tour. As a 7 foot 5 on-baller, built like the Telstra Tower, he was hard to miss. We stuck him in the Academy and a star was born.

Of course the Victorians whinge, but I say until Eddie Macguire can prove he's the missing Shaw brother who should have been a Collingwood father-son, then I say we keep him.

 

[coniglio_number1]

Everyone knows that the shaws play for Sydney teams so the pies have no claim

 

[coniglio_number1]

So Tomlinson has had 2 chances to show that he has a spot on the 22 and blown both chances. His numbers in the NEAFL say he is elite yet his lack of confirmed position and inability to take a contested grab makes him a likely candidate to be released from his contract to a club like Carlton.

Given the bad blood with McCarthy and the hearsay I imagine the club would be willing to part with him for a price. I doubt we will do freo any favours but can't see us accepting a lowball offer. He has the choice the break contract and deregister himself. Means he sits out for 2 years.

Stewart I want to keep but if he is offered guaranteed game time and big coin I can see him leaving.

This looks like a crazy exodus of KPF talent but we still have Cameron, Patton, Lobb, Himmelberg and Finlayson that play KPF along with the ever growing Zac Sproule. I would think this could be a great opportunity to load up for the 2017 draft like we did last year.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

With so many good academy players coming through, as well as three first round picks, I was wondering what you think your strategy might be at the end of the year? I'm assuming the Collingwood pick will end up top 8, and the Geelong pick and your original one somewhere from 12-16.

So do you:

Trade out all three picks with other clubs for a greater value in points, and spend them all on academy players?

Trade out the Collingwood pick so you don't have to spend it on Macreadie, and hope that Sproule/Setterfield or whoever else get bid on after your two late first round picks, allowing you to use them on other players? Might risk your chance at getting all the academy players though.

Trade out one or both of the late first round picks, but keep the Collingwood one, hoping that Macreadie gets bid on after it, allowing you to use it on someone else?

Keep all three first round picks, and just see what happens with them?

It's a really interesting situation, wondering how you'll play it.

 

[coniglio_number1]

With so many good academy players coming through, as well as three first round picks, I was wondering what you think your strategy might be at the end of the year? I'm assuming the Collingwood pick will end up top 8, and the Geelong pick and your original one somewhere from 12-16.

So do you:

Trade out all three picks with other clubs for a greater value in points, and spend them all on academy players?

Trade out the Collingwood pick so you don't have to spend it on Macreadie, and hope that Sproule/Setterfield or whoever else get bid on after your two late first round picks, allowing you to use them on other players? Might risk your chance at getting all the academy players though.

Trade out one or both of the late first round picks, but keep the Collingwood one, hoping that Macreadie gets bid on after it, allowing you to use it on someone else?

Keep all three first round picks, and just see what happens with them?

It's a really interesting situation, wondering how you'll play it.

Depends if the league caves to pressure to reduce the points value of later picks. If it happens then we will probably keep the picks.

Also the club has shown its hand towards this years draft by not hiring any additional staff to our recruiting department given the departure of grubby and the banning of another key recruiter. Club is only focused on the academy kids and isn't even scouting the other states bar Victoria via phil Scully.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

Depends if the league caves to pressure to reduce the points value of later picks. If it happens then we will probably keep the picks.

Also the club has shown its hand towards this years draft by not hiring any additional staff to our recruiting department given the departure of grubby and the banning of another key recruiter. Club is only focused on the academy kids and isn't even scouting the other states bar Victoria via phil Scully.

Even if they reduce the value of the later picks, you'll most likely find clubs willing to stump up the required points values to "buy" your early picks. Early picks mean so much more than a few later ones. I can see why they would want to reduce the value to be honest, it was way too easy to sell of those early picks for a higher point value last season. Couple that with the fact that multiple later picks meant each pick increased in value as ones before it got used and they moved up the order, this all meant that you and Sydney and Brisbane got massive value for those earlier picks, much more than the league envisaged I'd imagine.

Interesting to hear you aren't scouting other players heavily, I guess that really means you'll trade out of the first round again. Maybe keep Collingwood's pick if it turns out to be really early and you expect Macreadie to be bid after it - surely you'll at least scout the top few players and a top five player is something you wouldn't turn down I imagine.

Anyway, interesting to see how it all plays out. Academies and future pick trading has certainly made drafting a lot more interesting at the very least.

 

[captainMyCaptain]

Seems like things are slowly moving forward between Whitfield's management and the club

 

[coniglio_number1]

Even if they reduce the value of the later picks, you'll most likely find clubs willing to stump up the required points values to "buy" your early picks. Early picks mean so much more than a few later ones. I can see why they would want to reduce the value to be honest, it was way too easy to sell of those early picks for a higher point value last season. Couple that with the fact that multiple later picks meant each pick increased in value as ones before it got used and they moved up the order, this all meant that you and Sydney and Brisbane got massive value for those earlier picks, much more than the league envisaged I'd imagine.

Interesting to hear you aren't scouting other players heavily, I guess that really means you'll trade out of the first round again. Maybe keep Collingwood's pick if it turns out to be really early and you expect Macreadie to be bid after it - surely you'll at least scout the top few players and a top five player is something you wouldn't turn down I imagine.

Anyway, interesting to see how it all plays out. Academies and future pick trading has certainly made drafting a lot more interesting at the very least.

I imagine the first round Victorians are being looked at with our recruiting team watching tapes from the other states for certain players. Majority of the hard scouting will take place during the champs and combine at this stage it seems.

Unless phil is seriously racking up his frequent flyer points and traveling the country.

 

[Malifice]

So Tomlinson has had 2 chances to show that he has a spot on the 22 and blown both chances. His numbers in the NEAFL say he is elite yet his lack of confirmed position and inability to take a contested grab makes him a likely candidate to be released from his contract to a club like Carlton.

With the obvious intrest we had in him last year and the reports that were also into Marchbank in a big way (and going by our two clubs recent form with trading), I wouldnt be shocked if we didnt dangle something out there for a mutually beneficial trade.

Conventional wisdom is we're going to have pick 1 or 2. Also pick 19/20 odd, and maybe a PP around the end of the 1st round as well (we'll certainly ask for one - whether we get it or not is a different question).

Assuming this holds up, there is some talk about sending pick 1/2 and 2 picks around the 20 mark your way in exchance for Tommo, Marchbank and two of your (currently) three mid first rounders.

Would give you guys the chance to use pick 1/2 on best available in the draft before academy bids kick in (unless someone bids on an academy player at pick 1), and then have a bunch of picks in the late teens/ early 20's (picks 19 and 21 from us, whatever Freo hand over for Macarthy and the Geelong 1st round pick) to spend on your two academy boys (bids at the early stages expected in the top 10 for both) leaving you with enough points for a player or two in the top 25.

Works out to be (roughly) pick 2, 19 and 21 [4,200 points] for (Thommo, Marchbank, 6 and 12) [3000 points plus players].

You get full value for pick 2 (taking best available) and then can use (Freo pick @13 for Macarthy, Geelong pick @15, Carlton picks @19+21) to pay for your two academy blokes (at a 25 percent discount) and still have enough points left over to grab two more players inside the top 25.

Just tossing some thoughts out there.

 

[Turbocat]

With the obvious intrest we had in him last year and the reports that were also into Marchbank in a big way (and going by our two clubs recent form with trading), I wouldnt be shocked if we didnt dangle something out there for a mutually beneficial trade.

Conventional wisdom is we're going to have pick 1 or 2. Also pick 19/20 odd, and maybe a PP around the end of the 1st round as well (we'll certainly ask for one - whether we get it or not is a different question).

Assuming this holds up, there is some talk about sending pick 1/2 and 2 picks around the 20 mark your way in exchance for Tommo, Marchbank and two of your (currently) three mid first rounders.

Would give you guys the chance to use pick 1/2 on best available in the draft before academy bids kick in (unless someone bids on an academy player at pick 1), and then have a bunch of picks in the late teens/ early 20's (picks 19 and 21 from us, whatever Freo hand over for Macarthy and the Geelong 1st round pick) to spend on your two academy boys (bids at the early stages expected in the top 10 for both) leaving you with enough points for a player or two in the top 25.

Works out to be (roughly) pick 2, 19 and 21 [4,200 points] for (Thommo, Marchbank, 6 and 12) [3000 points plus players].

You get full value for pick 2 (taking best available) and then can use (Freo pick @13 for Macarthy, Geelong pick @15, Carlton picks @19+21) to pay for your two academy blokes (at a 25 percent discount) and still have enough points left over to grab two more players inside the top 25.

Just tossing some thoughts out there.

So 1200 points for players picked 9 in 2011 and 6 in 2014... Id have thought Marchbank is at least worth 1200 points , he is only in year 2 and P6 is worth 1751... be a great deal if GWS agree to that.

If GWS wanted to just trade for points , Id hope Geelong look into getting their R1 back. If GFC finish at 15 for instance (1112) , id be willing to give more points than that to get it back. Our R2 and Bris. R3 would is a good start , perhaps we add something for to ensure a points win for GWS.

 

[JC100]

With the obvious intrest we had in him last year and the reports that were also into Marchbank in a big way (and going by our two clubs recent form with trading), I wouldnt be shocked if we didnt dangle something out there for a mutually beneficial trade.

Conventional wisdom is we're going to have pick 1 or 2. Also pick 19/20 odd, and maybe a PP around the end of the 1st round as well (we'll certainly ask for one - whether we get it or not is a different question).

Assuming this holds up, there is some talk about sending pick 1/2 and 2 picks around the 20 mark your way in exchance for Tommo, Marchbank and two of your (currently) three mid first rounders.

Would give you guys the chance to use pick 1/2 on best available in the draft before academy bids kick in (unless someone bids on an academy player at pick 1), and then have a bunch of picks in the late teens/ early 20's (picks 19 and 21 from us, whatever Freo hand over for Macarthy and the Geelong 1st round pick) to spend on your two academy boys (bids at the early stages expected in the top 10 for both) leaving you with enough points for a player or two in the top 25.

Works out to be (roughly) pick 2, 19 and 21 [4,200 points] for (Thommo, Marchbank, 6 and 12) [3000 points plus players].

You get full value for pick 2 (taking best available) and then can use (Freo pick @13 for Macarthy, Geelong pick @15, Carlton picks @19+21) to pay for your two academy blokes (at a 25 percent discount) and still have enough points left over to grab two more players inside the top 25.

Just tossing some thoughts out there.

Well reasoned except for the fact Marchbank won't be on the table. Young, highly rated and has been playing games and showed plenty.

The players that can potentially be pried away are Tomlinson, WHE, Barrett if they can't establish themselves in the best 22. With McCarthy going home we won't have to get rid of anyone else.

Pick 1 won't hold great appeal I wouldn't think. We can get a couple of very good young key position players. We have some gun mids waiting in the wing in Ahearn, Pickett, Kennedy and hopper who are yet to play a game.

If we do much trading I can see use trying to stock up on future picks similar to this year. Ensure a constant stream of quality young kids are coming to the club as we rise up the ladder

 

[Raymann]

Well reasoned except for the fact Marchbank won't be on the table. Young, highly rated and has been playing games and showed plenty.

The players that can potentially be pried away are Tomlinson, WHE, Barrett if they can't establish themselves in the best 22. With McCarthy going home we won't have to get rid of anyone else.

Pick 1 won't hold great appeal I wouldn't think. We can get a couple of very good young key position players. We have some gun mids waiting in the wing in Ahearn, Pickett, Kennedy and hopper who are yet to play a game.

If we do much trading I can see use trying to stock up on future picks similar to this year. Ensure a constant stream of quality young kids are coming to the club as we rise up the ladder

I don't think Marchbank will be a giant next year.

 

[Andre the Giant]

I don't think Marchbank will be a giant next year.

Have heard he has battled homesickness and yet to re-sign.

Like him a lot but Macreadie will be a like for like replacement if he goes.

If he was up for trade there would be a heap of Victorian clubs after him. St Kilda would give their nuts for him.

 

[JC100]

Why do you say that? I can't see any reason why he won't be.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Andre the Giant]

With the obvious intrest we had in him last year and the reports that were also into Marchbank in a big way (and going by our two clubs recent form with trading), I wouldnt be shocked if we didnt dangle something out there for a mutually beneficial trade.

Conventional wisdom is we're going to have pick 1 or 2. Also pick 19/20 odd, and maybe a PP around the end of the 1st round as well (we'll certainly ask for one - whether we get it or not is a different question).

Assuming this holds up, there is some talk about sending pick 1/2 and 2 picks around the 20 mark your way in exchance for Tommo, Marchbank and two of your (currently) three mid first rounders.

Would give you guys the chance to use pick 1/2 on best available in the draft before academy bids kick in (unless someone bids on an academy player at pick 1), and then have a bunch of picks in the late teens/ early 20's (picks 19 and 21 from us, whatever Freo hand over for Macarthy and the Geelong 1st round pick) to spend on your two academy boys (bids at the early stages expected in the top 10 for both) leaving you with enough points for a player or two in the top 25.

Works out to be (roughly) pick 2, 19 and 21 [4,200 points] for (Thommo, Marchbank, 6 and 12) [3000 points plus players].

You get full value for pick 2 (taking best available) and then can use (Freo pick @13 for Macarthy, Geelong pick @15, Carlton picks @19+21) to pay for your two academy blokes (at a 25 percent discount) and still have enough points left over to grab two more players inside the top 25.

Just tossing some thoughts out there.

I'll be getting a priority pick to get a root with Miranda Kerr before you guys are offered a priority pick.

The AFL still hates you for being cheats.