Gold Coast's Tom Lynch? He'll be playing out next year as a 23 year old.
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Analysis 2016 List Management Discussion
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Gold Coast's Tom Lynch? He'll be playing out next year as a 23 year old.
Has anyone followed gorringe at the Suns? I can't seem to work him out. Port seemed to show a lot of interest previous years yet we get him for free as a DFA. From what I've seen at training he seems to have the attributes of a good player just curious as to why every other club wasn't interested?
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Wickzki
Definitely Sam MacLure.
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Earned himself a reputation as a bit of an airhead and as Feva said, FIGJAM. There was a story floating around that his father supported that attitude and they were both furious with Port as they allegedly promised to get him and then went ahead and got Ryder instead and couldn't satisfy GC's request in trade (similar to Fremantle and McCarthy this year).
Personally, I believe that he could be an absolute steal. SOS and Bolton are instilling a great learning and development environment at the club. Given he's not quite 24 he could come on at the Blues and really cement himself a position in the 22. If not then we cut him loose. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. A calculated low risk gamble.
Yea i've heard his got some personality flaws, who would you say he plays the most like? as i cant say i remember him from any of the suns games ive watched.
ferrisb
Brownlow Medallist
From what I have pieced together, gorringe has been played out of position, or perhaps does not have a position.
200cm, athletic, very good leap. Maybe not tall / strong enough to be a centre bounce ruckman however.
There was talk (last year?) of turning him into a midfielder. I guess he is a very tall athlete, but not natural enough a footballer to be a CHF/B. Situation reminds me a little of hampson.
Perhaps he's a giant utility/flanker. Like a really tall everitt (who himself is a really tall utility / flanker).
200cm, athletic, very good leap. Maybe not tall / strong enough to be a centre bounce ruckman however.
There was talk (last year?) of turning him into a midfielder. I guess he is a very tall athlete, but not natural enough a footballer to be a CHF/B. Situation reminds me a little of hampson.
Perhaps he's a giant utility/flanker. Like a really tall everitt (who himself is a really tall utility / flanker).
One of the initial intake at the Suns...pick 10 in 2010.
Bit injury prone early and had plenty of competition for game time (read Lynch, Dixon, Thompson, Smith, May, Day, Nicholls more recently, Bock 1st year, Fraser 1st year)
Played some very decent cameos in ruck and out of the square. Tried briefly in defence, but this was discontinued when Thompson and May stepped up.
Extremely athletic, there was a story in the pre season two years ago trumpeting the desire of he and the Suns to be seriously tried on a wing, as was one of the better runners and deemed to have the ball skills.
The dramas over potential trade to Port pretty much resulted in him going through the motions last season. Comes across as an underachiever against potential. If he switched on could have a very valuable player, or may continue
to do the same as at the Suns (much as the highly talented Jones has, although Gorringe is substantially superior athletically)
I have Phillips in front as a ruckman, but Kreuzer, Casboult, Phillips and Gorringe are an exceptionally mobile group of ruck/forwards, and create some interesting options.
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Blue For Life
Senior List
On the surface it appears that the CFC under BB, the club is heading in a positive direction.
For the first time in years they are getting the process right. Here's the thing with a solid structure, things should go smooth and on the up. What we must remember is that the right structure doesn't break down, it's people that do.
So what I am saying is if and its early days yet, we continue to head in the right direction with recruiting, development, game plane, culture,on field and off field, then we will again be a powerhouse club,and if we don't stick to the right processes then unfortunately we will stay down the bottom.
The general consensus is that we are finally getting it right and it will be a slow burn and we will witness more lows than highs early days but when it finally gels, watch out because it's going to be something to behold, and I for one am backing BB. Go Blues....
Blue and Silver
Brownlow Medallist
It's almost 4 in the morning and a weary B&S holds on to his last gulp of coffee as he finishes the last bit of work. Hours to kill now...
So here is yet another lengthy analysis piece, which I undoubtedly will feel is underwhelming:
The focus of this effort will be to identify long-term needs for the list and transitional requirements in our rebuilding process. I will do this by sub-dividing players by type, providing them a subjective rating both for current output and potential output and then reviewing the data to assess what holes we have.
NOTE: Potential indicates what they might produce over the remainder of their career. Players later in career will have lower expectations
NOTE: Current output is judged on AFL performances, lower tier leagues are not considered in this assessment.
NOTE: Output is in the context of the position. Some players are more valuable to the team but have a lower rank simply because there is stiffer competition across the league
LEGEND:
Type
SD (Small Defender) - MD (Medium Defender) - TD (Tall Defender) - SF (Small Forward) - MF (Medium Forward) - TF (Tall Forward) - IM (Inside Midfielder) - OM (Outside Midfielder) - T (Tagger) - R (Ruck)
Types in Brackets indicate alternative positions.
Ratings:
A+ (Superstar) A (Elite) B+ (High Quality Player) B (Quality Player) C+ (Average Player) C (Inconsistent Player) D+ (Lacks Impact) D (No Impact)
SD:
Dylan Buckley (SF) - Current: C Potential: B
Kade Simpson (OM) - Current: B Potential: B+
Sam Docherty (OM) - Current: B Potential: A
MD:
Dillon Viojo-Rainbow - Current: D Potential: C+
Matthew Dick - Current: D+ Potential: C+
Zach Tuohy - Current: A Potential: A
Simon White (MF) - Current: C+ Potential: C+
Ciaran Byrne - Current: D Potential: B+
Ciaran Sheehan - Current: D+ Potential: B
Billy Gowers (T) - Current: D Potenital: B
TD:
Sam Rowe (TF, R) - Current: C Potential: C+
Kristian Jaksch (TF) - Current: D+ Potential: B
Lachie Plowman (IM) - Current: C+ Potential: B+
Jacob Weitering - Current: D Potential: A+
Michael Jamison - Current: B Potential: B+
Jesse Glass-McCasker - Current: D Potential: B+
SF:
Jed Lamb - Current: C Potential: B
Liam Sumner - Current: D+ Potential: B+
Clem Smith - Current: D+ Potential: B
Dennis Armfield (T,SD) - Current: C+ Potential: C+
Matthew Wright (IM) - Current: C+ Potential: B
Andrew Galluci - Current: D Potential: B
MF:
Andrew Walker (MD) - Current: B Potential: B+
Jack Silvagni (MD) - Current: D Potential: B+
Andrejs Everitt (MD, OM) - Current: B Potential: B+
TF:
Harry McKay (R) - Current: D Potential: A
Liam Jones - Current: C Potential: C+
Jayden Foster - Current: D Potential: C+
Charlie Curnow (IM) - Current: D Potential: A+
Levi Casboult (R) - Current: C+ Potential: B+
IM:
Marc Murphy (SF,OM) - Current: A Potential: A
Bryce Gibbs (MF, MD) - Current: B+ Potential: A
Patrick Cripps - Current: B+ Potential: A+
Sam Kerridge (MF, T) - Current: C+ Potential: B+
Mark Whiley - Current: C+ Potential: B
Nick Graham - Current: C+ Potential: B+
OM:
Blaine Boekhurst - Current: C+ Potential: B+
Jason Tutt - Current: C Potential: B
David Cuningham - Current: D Potential: A
Dale Thomas (MD, MF) - Current: B Potential: A
T:
Ed Curnow - Current: B Potential: B
R:
Matthew Kreuzer (TF) - Current: B Potential: A
Andrew Phillips - Current: C+ Potential: B+
Daniel Gorringe (OM) - Current: C+ Potential: B+
Cameron Wood - Current: C+ Potential: C+
Matt Korcheck - Current: D Potential: B+
Assessment:
Small Defenders: (3 Primary, 1 Alternate)
Strong competition in this spot. Kade retiring soon will require a replacement.
Current Median: B
Potential Median: B+
List Management Priority: Low Priority
Medium Defenders: (7 Primary, 5 Alternate)
Outside of Tuohy a real concerning area. None of the players who would be here as a primary position have really done enough. Having said that, there are quite a few players in this spot who might come good
Current Median: D+
Potential Median: B
List Management Priority: Low Priority
Tall Defenders: (6 Primary, 0 Alternate)
This section could be a real area of strength in a year or two, and has plenty of potential to grow into. Has been a weakness.
Current Median: C
Potential Median: B+
List Management Priority: Low Priority
Small Forwards: (6 Primary, 2 Alternate)
This could be a very hotly contested position. No established candidate existing means that this sections promise is very much up in the air. Right now it's a wait and see on how the current crop goes.
Current Median: D+
Potential Median: B
List Management Priority: Low - Medium Priority
Medium Forwards: (3 Primary, 4 Alternate)
Walker's impending retirement (not to mention Everitt's age) means this spot will need some recruiting in the near future. Quality exists short term.
Current Median: B
Potential Median: B+
List Management Priority: Medium-High Priority
Tall Forwards: (5 Primary, 1 Alternate)
An area of peak recruitment recently. This explains the no-impact median value. Would expect the current crop to get a good run before it becomes a high priority again, but some of the current players are already on the edge of delistment
Current Median: D
Potential Median: B+
List Management Priority: Low - Medium Priority
Inside Midfielder: (6 Primary, 3 Alternate)
Chiefly championed by Murphy, Cripps and Gibbs, this division will need to be freshened up with a high end talent soon.
Current Median: C+
Potential Median: B+
List Management Priority: High Priority
Outside Midfielder: (4 Primary, 3 Alternate)
The prospects in this division look good, but it is an area of weakness on the field. Probably needs a refresh with the outgoing Thomas
Current Median: C
Potential Median: B+
List Management Priority: Medium Priority
Tagger: (1 Primary, 3 Alternate)
1 data point is a bit of a joke to do even this sort of rudimentary assessment on. Ed's successor will probably already be on the list IMO
Current Median: B
Potential Median: B
List Management Priority: Low Priority
Ruck: (5 Primary, 3 Alternate)
5 rucks is a lot. I would expect Wood to go, and we won't see much of Korcheck for a while. Real contest here is for second fiddle between Phillips and Gorringe.
Current Median: C+
Potential Median: B+
List Management Priority: Low Priority
Summary:
Our biggest priority going forward looks likely to be midfielders and then forwards. Defensive prospects are numerous. We will probably shed a ruck and some medium defenders as well as the weakest tall forward prospects.
I would expect top-end midfield prospects to be the first focus of the list-management team, followed by a high-quality forward.
So here is yet another lengthy analysis piece, which I undoubtedly will feel is underwhelming:
The focus of this effort will be to identify long-term needs for the list and transitional requirements in our rebuilding process. I will do this by sub-dividing players by type, providing them a subjective rating both for current output and potential output and then reviewing the data to assess what holes we have.
NOTE: Potential indicates what they might produce over the remainder of their career. Players later in career will have lower expectations
NOTE: Current output is judged on AFL performances, lower tier leagues are not considered in this assessment.
NOTE: Output is in the context of the position. Some players are more valuable to the team but have a lower rank simply because there is stiffer competition across the league
LEGEND:
Type
SD (Small Defender) - MD (Medium Defender) - TD (Tall Defender) - SF (Small Forward) - MF (Medium Forward) - TF (Tall Forward) - IM (Inside Midfielder) - OM (Outside Midfielder) - T (Tagger) - R (Ruck)
Types in Brackets indicate alternative positions.
Ratings:
A+ (Superstar) A (Elite) B+ (High Quality Player) B (Quality Player) C+ (Average Player) C (Inconsistent Player) D+ (Lacks Impact) D (No Impact)
SD:
Dylan Buckley (SF) - Current: C Potential: B
Kade Simpson (OM) - Current: B Potential: B+
Sam Docherty (OM) - Current: B Potential: A
MD:
Dillon Viojo-Rainbow - Current: D Potential: C+
Matthew Dick - Current: D+ Potential: C+
Zach Tuohy - Current: A Potential: A
Simon White (MF) - Current: C+ Potential: C+
Ciaran Byrne - Current: D Potential: B+
Ciaran Sheehan - Current: D+ Potential: B
Billy Gowers (T) - Current: D Potenital: B
TD:
Sam Rowe (TF, R) - Current: C Potential: C+
Kristian Jaksch (TF) - Current: D+ Potential: B
Lachie Plowman (IM) - Current: C+ Potential: B+
Jacob Weitering - Current: D Potential: A+
Michael Jamison - Current: B Potential: B+
Jesse Glass-McCasker - Current: D Potential: B+
SF:
Jed Lamb - Current: C Potential: B
Liam Sumner - Current: D+ Potential: B+
Clem Smith - Current: D+ Potential: B
Dennis Armfield (T,SD) - Current: C+ Potential: C+
Matthew Wright (IM) - Current: C+ Potential: B
Andrew Galluci - Current: D Potential: B
MF:
Andrew Walker (MD) - Current: B Potential: B+
Jack Silvagni (MD) - Current: D Potential: B+
Andrejs Everitt (MD, OM) - Current: B Potential: B+
TF:
Harry McKay (R) - Current: D Potential: A
Liam Jones - Current: C Potential: C+
Jayden Foster - Current: D Potential: C+
Charlie Curnow (IM) - Current: D Potential: A+
Levi Casboult (R) - Current: C+ Potential: B+
IM:
Marc Murphy (SF,OM) - Current: A Potential: A
Bryce Gibbs (MF, MD) - Current: B+ Potential: A
Patrick Cripps - Current: B+ Potential: A+
Sam Kerridge (MF, T) - Current: C+ Potential: B+
Mark Whiley - Current: C+ Potential: B
Nick Graham - Current: C+ Potential: B+
OM:
Blaine Boekhurst - Current: C+ Potential: B+
Jason Tutt - Current: C Potential: B
David Cuningham - Current: D Potential: A
Dale Thomas (MD, MF) - Current: B Potential: A
T:
Ed Curnow - Current: B Potential: B
R:
Matthew Kreuzer (TF) - Current: B Potential: A
Andrew Phillips - Current: C+ Potential: B+
Daniel Gorringe (OM) - Current: C+ Potential: B+
Cameron Wood - Current: C+ Potential: C+
Matt Korcheck - Current: D Potential: B+
Assessment:
Small Defenders: (3 Primary, 1 Alternate)
Strong competition in this spot. Kade retiring soon will require a replacement.
Current Median: B
Potential Median: B+
List Management Priority: Low Priority
Medium Defenders: (7 Primary, 5 Alternate)
Outside of Tuohy a real concerning area. None of the players who would be here as a primary position have really done enough. Having said that, there are quite a few players in this spot who might come good
Current Median: D+
Potential Median: B
List Management Priority: Low Priority
Tall Defenders: (6 Primary, 0 Alternate)
This section could be a real area of strength in a year or two, and has plenty of potential to grow into. Has been a weakness.
Current Median: C
Potential Median: B+
List Management Priority: Low Priority
Small Forwards: (6 Primary, 2 Alternate)
This could be a very hotly contested position. No established candidate existing means that this sections promise is very much up in the air. Right now it's a wait and see on how the current crop goes.
Current Median: D+
Potential Median: B
List Management Priority: Low - Medium Priority
Medium Forwards: (3 Primary, 4 Alternate)
Walker's impending retirement (not to mention Everitt's age) means this spot will need some recruiting in the near future. Quality exists short term.
Current Median: B
Potential Median: B+
List Management Priority: Medium-High Priority
Tall Forwards: (5 Primary, 1 Alternate)
An area of peak recruitment recently. This explains the no-impact median value. Would expect the current crop to get a good run before it becomes a high priority again, but some of the current players are already on the edge of delistment
Current Median: D
Potential Median: B+
List Management Priority: Low - Medium Priority
Inside Midfielder: (6 Primary, 3 Alternate)
Chiefly championed by Murphy, Cripps and Gibbs, this division will need to be freshened up with a high end talent soon.
Current Median: C+
Potential Median: B+
List Management Priority: High Priority
Outside Midfielder: (4 Primary, 3 Alternate)
The prospects in this division look good, but it is an area of weakness on the field. Probably needs a refresh with the outgoing Thomas
Current Median: C
Potential Median: B+
List Management Priority: Medium Priority
Tagger: (1 Primary, 3 Alternate)
1 data point is a bit of a joke to do even this sort of rudimentary assessment on. Ed's successor will probably already be on the list IMO
Current Median: B
Potential Median: B
List Management Priority: Low Priority
Ruck: (5 Primary, 3 Alternate)
5 rucks is a lot. I would expect Wood to go, and we won't see much of Korcheck for a while. Real contest here is for second fiddle between Phillips and Gorringe.
Current Median: C+
Potential Median: B+
List Management Priority: Low Priority
Summary:
Our biggest priority going forward looks likely to be midfielders and then forwards. Defensive prospects are numerous. We will probably shed a ruck and some medium defenders as well as the weakest tall forward prospects.
I would expect top-end midfield prospects to be the first focus of the list-management team, followed by a high-quality forward.
ferrisb
Brownlow Medallist
Long on words, long on quality. Great stuff B&S!
Fantastic way of analysing the list needs based on both current output and potential.
Individual ratings could be argued one notch here and there but not important in the grand scheme.
Agree with the summary and approach.
The list is still lopsided and will require significant changes in the next couple of years. At least the rucks are sorted for now
Great read B&S!
Great read B&S!
I did a similar list management analysis in attempting to determine who will likely play games and where will our goals come from in 2016
My rating was numbers based (5-10) as seen below and I wanted to put a potential 10 for Weitering and Cripps but didn't want to load up expectations
By looking at my likely Emergencies, Development and Wilderness groupings I didn't get that we needed any more forwards - I would hope either Charlie, Harry or SOSOS is going in time to be our elite forwards.
I did however confirm in my mind that we are at least 3 mids short. To have only Nick Graham and Mark Whiley as recruited mids in reserve is scary. Have I missed a rookie that can play midfield?
I hope the Northern Blues have a few mids on the list or our boys going back to the magoos will either get a workout (backs) or get no delivery (forwards) - any idea on Northern Blues midfield depth?
Last edited:
Wickzki
Definitely Sam MacLure.
- Oct 1, 2010
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As others have said he doesn't really have a set AFL position yet. I'm interested to see what Bolton does with him if he gets into the firsts. He has a ton of potential and all of that. If I was to compare him to anyone it would probably be Shaun Hampson but with more genuine AFL skills and ability. In my opinion Hampson wasn't a ruckman, he wasn't a KP but his height dictated that they play him in the ruck but he never gave you enough around the ground that you demand from a modern ruck. Tantalizing talents both of them.
Re Gorringe.
I recall reading in the Gorringe "Welcome Thread" a very aggressive message he posted regarding a cafe that stuffed up his lunch order.
He would do well to study how a runner (Blicsavs) can become an amazingly successfully utility in just a couple of years and is regarded by the coaches as one of the hardest working (and most studious players) at the club.
We just need Dank and his mate Charters to source some injectable humility, persistence and effort and we might have ourselves a player - the raw materials are there.
I recall reading in the Gorringe "Welcome Thread" a very aggressive message he posted regarding a cafe that stuffed up his lunch order.
He would do well to study how a runner (Blicsavs) can become an amazingly successfully utility in just a couple of years and is regarded by the coaches as one of the hardest working (and most studious players) at the club.
We just need Dank and his mate Charters to source some injectable humility, persistence and effort and we might have ourselves a player - the raw materials are there.
We have addressed the massive hole in our in our drafting in the 2010 2011 and 2012 drafts.
2010
D. Gorrange pick 10
J. lamb pick 21
2011
L. Sumner pick 10
S. Docherty pick 12
S. Kerridge pick 27
2012
L. Plowman pick 3
K. Jaksch pick 12
A few of these players came from trading pick 28 and Menzel.
Cleaver stuff from SOS mainly. Although Rogers did well to get Doc for Hampson.
Has given us some first round talent, from drafts that were woeful for us.
Certainly gives us a more even spread of talent.
2010
D. Gorrange pick 10
J. lamb pick 21
2011
L. Sumner pick 10
S. Docherty pick 12
S. Kerridge pick 27
2012
L. Plowman pick 3
K. Jaksch pick 12
A few of these players came from trading pick 28 and Menzel.
Cleaver stuff from SOS mainly. Although Rogers did well to get Doc for Hampson.
Has given us some first round talent, from drafts that were woeful for us.
Certainly gives us a more even spread of talent.
KohPhi
Brownlow Medallist
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Ill be ecstatic if 3 of these blokes play 100 games for Carlton.
My picks would be;
Doc
Plough
Jaksch
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Can't see Jed Lamb being anything more then a list clogger unfortunately, the few times I recall him playing for the Giants he didn't impress me at all, I don't think we really wanted him either, but I think GWS forced us to take him.
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Very unlikely given we were first linked to him way back in July.
SOS would know Lamb very well and would have been integral to him joining the Giants at the end of 2013.
If we didn't want him, we wouldn't have chased him or taken him.
Totally agree on Doc and think he will get 200+ games.
Kerridge will play at least 50 games, and I can see him getting 100+.
Gorringe and Sumner are massive talents with significant upside if we can get them up - so definitely worth a spot on the list.
If Plow and KJ are good enough to get 100 games then CFC will be better than OK
Jed Lamb can play.
With the Swans facing salary cap pressures, the knock from disgruntled fans was that he took the easy route of big dollars rather than consolidating his spot in the 22 through hard work. Kind of like when the Blues were tight with the salary cap and Grigg walked out.
But I can understand the innuendo of 3rd-club-itis and that he needs to deliver. Luckily for him, Menzel and the 3 amigos left so he's a monty to star as a half forward.
With the Swans facing salary cap pressures, the knock from disgruntled fans was that he took the easy route of big dollars rather than consolidating his spot in the 22 through hard work. Kind of like when the Blues were tight with the salary cap and Grigg walked out.
But I can understand the innuendo of 3rd-club-itis and that he needs to deliver. Luckily for him, Menzel and the 3 amigos left so he's a monty to star as a half forward.
I haven't seen that much yet to suggest Lamb's a monty for a starting spot.
He does get around pretty well and seems to be having a good time with his new team-mates.
It's actually somewhat surprising to see just how well most of the new guys have settled in.
Credit to Bolton and co (and the club as a whole) to make everyone feel welcome........something that may not have been afforded to all last year.
He does get around pretty well and seems to be having a good time with his new team-mates.
It's actually somewhat surprising to see just how well most of the new guys have settled in.
Credit to Bolton and co (and the club as a whole) to make everyone feel welcome........something that may not have been afforded to all last year.
Tony Lynn 15
Hall of Famer
- Banned
- #350
Sounds very much like he was a sacrificial Lamb???
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