2016 trade hypotheticals

[MightyTiger]

but how do know this?

Are you just being thick for the hell of it or you genuinely don't know?

He used 12 pick in his original post as the starting point, at no point in that post did he offer up another deal/pick, or at any point after that post did he put up another offer that would make the deal look interesting for us.

Pick 12 is his stance, and he obviously isn't changing that, and going by his earlier post, Deledio would struggle to get into the team.

 

[MightyTiger]

Inconsistent.

Year Team Games Kicks Handballs Disposals Marks Goals Behinds Tackles Hitouts Frees For Frees Ag. Brownlow
2016 Richmond 9 11.7 12.0 23.7 5.4 1.0 0.8 3.4 0.1 0.6 0.7
2015 Richmond 18 12.4 9.2 21.6 5.9 1.5 0.8 3.1 0.3 1.2 0.9 0.47
2014 Richmond 19 13.6 11.8 25.4 5.4 1.0 0.8 2.7 0.3 0.8 0.8 0.67
2013 Richmond 23 13.8 10.0 23.8 5.1 0.4 0.6 3.7 0.2 0.6 0.3 0.45
2012 Richmond 22 15.4 12.1 27.5 5.0 0.8 0.7 4.6 1.1 1.0 0.3 0.59
2011 Richmond 22 12.8 12.8 25.6 4.1 0.4 0.5 3.0 0.3 1.0 0.4 0.23
2010 Richmond 22 13.7 11.6 25.3 5.3 0.1 0.2 2.4 0.1 0.7 0.7 0.32
2009 Richmond 22 11.6 12.7 24.2 5.4 0.9 0.7 3.6 0.4 0.5 0.4 0.23
2008 Richmond 22 11.6 12.9 24.4 7.0 1.3 0.4 2.2 0.2 0.7 0.6 0.36

 

[TheBeardAmigos]

Lets talk about this involving some numbers. Lets assume he wants $1.5m over the next 3 years and the clubs agree he's worth pick 12 (1268 points).

Now, if Richmond goes 'He's worth pick 12. On the other hand, we're sign him to a 3 year deal, frontloading $800k of that, so he's paid $350k a year in year 2 and 3, but if we do that, we want your Collingwood pick, which is a #5, worth 1878 points'.

Doing that costs Richmond cap room next year, but they get a better pick. GWS pay a better pick, but they have more cap room going forward the next few years.

If Richmond did that, it means they have given up 2017, and are going into rebuild mode. It probably also means that GWS think that the other clubs dont rate their Acadamy crop as highly as certain journos.

Are you just being thick for the hell of it or you genuinely don't know?

He used 12 pick in his original post as the starting point, at no point in that post did he offer up another deal/pick, or at any point after that post did he put up another offer that would make the deal look interesting for us.

Pick 12 is his stance, and he obviously isn't changing that, and going by his earlier post, Deledio would struggle to get into the team.

that post above?
my take on his post above, is that he is posing a hypothetical in where Richmond value him at pick 12 and would be happen to take pick 12 for him.
no, he hasnt 'offered' any other deal, mainly because you havent said what about pick 12 and a player?
He was posing a very unlikely hypothetical situation, where pick 12 was the agreed value of Deledio, from both clubs involved. You then proceeded to shoot him down, saying pick 12 was way unders for Deledio, which is your opinion, which i believe you are overvaluing him or you are missing the point of where Richmond agree that his value is pick 12, which is highly unlikely as all clubs tend to overvalue their players to get the best deal they can.

 

[Cobbler]

I think Deledio is worth pick 13.

 

[MightyTiger]

that post above?
my take on his post above, is that he is posing a hypothetical in where Richmond value him at pick 12 and would be happen to take pick 12 for him.
no, he hasnt 'offered' any other deal, mainly because you havent said what about pick 12 and a player?
He was posing a very unlikely hypothetical situation, where pick 12 was the agreed value of Deledio, from both clubs involved. You then proceeded to shoot him down, saying pick 12 was way unders for Deledio, which is your opinion, which i believe you are overvaluing him or you are missing the point of where Richmond agree that his value is pick 12, which is highly unlikely as all clubs tend to overvalue their players to get the best deal they can.

Lets just leave it at that because I completely disagree with where you are coming from.

 

[Stevi_Tigers]

Lids and #7 for Steele, Marchbank, Tomlinson and #18.

now that is interesting. gives rance a competent partner in defence and gives us currency to get prestia. potentially lids and 7 for steele,marchbank,tomilson and prestia. would help with a rebuild that's for sure

 

[TheBeardAmigos]

Lets just leave it at that because I completely disagree with where you are coming from.

thats fine, because you can disagree with what i am saying, but can you elaborate on where you disagree?

because what i am saying is totally of my opinion and how i read the above comment

 

[MightyTiger]

thats fine, because you can disagree with what i am saying, but can you elaborate on where you disagree?

because what i am saying is totally of my opinion and how i read the above comment

I've already stated that Deledio is a required contracted player, the only way any club could pry Deledio out of our club is with an offer to good to refuse, pick12, is not an offer to good to refuse, and neither is pick12+shitty fringe player.

 

[TheBeardAmigos]

I've already stated that Deledio is a required contracted player, the only way any club could pry Deledio out of our club is with an offer to good to refuse, pick12, is not an offer to good to refuse, and neither is pick12+shitty fringe player.

that is your opinion and you are entitled to it.
however, IanW stated in his opening post, IF Richmond valued him at pick 12. this is the point i think you are missing or not getting.

 

[MightyTiger]

that is your opinion and you are entitled to it.
however, IanW stated in his opening post, IF Richmond valued him at pick 12. this is the point i think you are missing or not getting.

Good god, and why would Richmond value him at pick12? Is it because IanW magically pulled that draft pick out of a hat at a value HE valued Deledio at?

 

[TheBeardAmigos]

Good god, and why would Richmond value him at pick12? Is it because IanW magically pulled that draft pick out of a hat at a value HE valued Deledio at?

He is stating a hypothetical in where Richmond valued him at pick 12.
it is a very good question, why would they? but he is throwing up the scenario in where they do value him at pick 12

this is definitely going over your head and you are getting too worked up about it.

 

[Cobbler]

I have to agree. Mighty Tiger has completely missed the point here. Instead of taking a breath and re-reading the initial post, he's decided to tear the thread to sheds.

I can't stop laughing at his responses. Especially on a hypothetical situation.

 

[MightyTiger]

He is stating a hypothetical in where Richmond valued him at pick 12.
it is a very good question, why would they? but he is throwing up the scenario in where they do value him at pick 12

this is definitely going over your head and you are getting too worked up about it.

He used pick12 as the hypothetical for the RFC valuing him at that because that's what HE values Deledio at.

 

[TheBeardAmigos]

He used pick12 as the hypothetical for the RFC valuing him at that because that's what HE values Deledio at.

but, have you asked him what he values Deledio at? you are taking this way out of context and getting way too worked up about it.
He is merely using the pick 12 as an example.

 

[MightyTiger]

but, have you asked him what he values Deledio at? you are taking this way out of context and getting way too worked up about it.
He is merely using the pick 12 as an example.

It doesnt matter if you go 'he's worth pick 6' - its the way the deal works, of how much extra draft currency he is worth if the losing club picks up salary.

Im looking at an underachieving team that has had a good hard look at where they sit and is going 'This list tops out at ninth. If we're lucky. Time to blow it up and start again'.

But if you value him that highly, answer me a question. Will he play in the next Richmond premiership side ?

You're assuming Im that interested in him as a GWS player. Really, Im not sure who we'd drop for him - possibly Palmer.

Nope, this is going to follow the usual script of GWS dealing with Melbourne clubs. We'll package an offer. It'll involve first round picks. It'll be rejected. The player will continue along another couple of years. Their club will try and get rid of them.

It's how it works.

All posts from IanW between he and I. Pick12 is his made up value.

 

[IanW]

Are you just being thick for the hell of it or you genuinely don't know?

He used 12 pick in his original post as the starting point, at no point in that post did he offer up another deal/pick, or at any point after that post did he put up another offer that would make the deal look interesting for us.

Pick 12 is his stance, and he obviously isn't changing that, and going by his earlier post, Deledio would struggle to get into the team.

I might as well be absolutely clear.

I dont want GWS to pay pick 12 for a 29 year old utility with an injury history. I value Deledio as about 16.

Given that, paying Dangerfield levels of compensation would just be insane.

 

[TheBeardAmigos]

All posts from IanW between he and I. Pick12 is his made up value.

yes and what point is that meant to prove? that HE values him at pick 12? cos it certainly doesnt.
as IanW stated above, he doesnt value him at 12. It was merely a pick used in the scenario in where RICHMOND and the other club value Deledio at pick 12

 

[TheBeardAmigos]

I might as well be absolutely clear.

I dont want GWS to pay pick 12 for a 29 year old utility with an injury history. I value Deledio as about 16.

Given that, paying Dangerfield levels of compensation would just be insane.

you watch, he is now going to say how the hell can you value Deledio at 16?????? He is worth pick 1, 2 and 3!

 

[Cobbler]

To be truthful he wouldn't be valued at much higher then pick 12. I'm not trying to stir, but he's 29?

The other reality is guys at 29 are likely to remain at their club. Let's say Richmond did want a clear out and sought value for Deledio, you'd be dreaming if you think you're getting a top 6 pick for him. If you were offered that, surely you'd take it and run?

Richmond have some tough calls to make and are not dissimilar to where Freo are at. Both clubs went mature age player route and had a crack but both are now top heavy. Freo were lucky in that injuries and a 0-10 start forced our hand to play youth. Richmond believed they could play finals until just last week.

You'd hope Richmond play some youngsters this weekend, especially after making a deal out of it.

Pick 12 probably wouldn't have Richmond jumping at a trade, but tough calls need to be made. If they want a fresh list this is what may need to be done. To bury your head in the sand and think your list is ok, is what will lead to years of mediocrity.

I'm not having a go at Richmond. Fremantle are in exactly the same position and North will be too very soon. How quickly teams cut and move on plays a massive part in their next run at it.

 

[Ants]

He's 29, turning 30 at the start of next season. And next season he's an unrestricted FA. I can't see his value being as high as 12 anymore. To pay 12 for someone who will be 30 almost from the first game they play for you, it has to be transformational to the side. So usually marquee talls. I just don't see GWS being that interested at that price.

And yes, every team needs to evaluate when they've missed their shot and its time to focus on development. Essendon stuffed it several times in the 2000's, failing to recognise the end was there. Hell, I was suggesting Essendon should have moved Hooker, one or two of Stanton/Goddard/Watson/Bags last year. It makes it a very tough decision on whether to stick with great servants to the club, or be a bastard and trade them out.

 

[Cobbler]

He's 29, turning 30 at the start of next season. And next season he's an unrestricted FA. I can't see his value being as high as 12 anymore. To pay 12 for someone who will be 30 almost from the first game they play for you, it has to be transformational to the side. So usually marquee talls. I just don't see GWS being that interested at that price.

And yes, every team needs to evaluate when they've missed their shot and its time to focus on development. Essendon stuffed it several times in the 2000's, failing to recognise the end was there. Hell, I was suggesting Essendon should have moved Hooker, one or two of Stanton/Goddard/Watson/Bags last year. It makes it a very tough decision on whether to stick with great servants to the club, or be a bastard and trade them out.

A few years ago I was massively suggesting we move on Sandilands. He had a couple of seasons with turf toe and I felt he only had a couple of years in him. We had an athletic Clarke and we could've got some early picks to get Omeara, Coniglio and Bennell types.

Sandilands has just kept trudging along and played more then I thought he would and will go again next year BUT a few years on would I swap Sandilands now for one of those 3?

Would Fyfe have won a Brownlow?

It's a tough call moving on your old players and the club needs to be viewed more then just a business.

 

[Vic pokiesmon]

If Tigers go into rebuild mode and are open to trading Deledio and Deledio okays it I can see a trade as a real possibility.I see Johnson retiring and moving into coaching.An experienced forward/mid makes sense.Whether it's a teens pick and a player /swap of picks if the Giants go hard they could offer something appealing to the Tigers.I can see us dealing with the Tigers with a few of our players.I think Giants will be front and centre during Trade time whatever happens with Deledio.Whether we go after an experienced back up for Mummy or an experienced Centre Half Back is the other key decision

 

[adammania9]

As I said earlier, I reckon it'll be a swap between experience and youth, similar to how the Shaw/Adams trade panned out that we did with the Giants. I think Lids and next year's 2nd in exchange for two outsiders whom are AFL quality and developing into better players; I see Marchbank and probably Steele as two guys who could satisfy the needs at Tigerland. Lids is a very good player, but I think for the future of the club, it's worth sitting down and looking at potential offers at his age.

As apart of another trade unrelated, Tigers should attempt to swap their 2017 first with a club who may not so much need their 2016 pick (Western Bulldogs maybe?). Do a little switcharoo and the Tiges have two first rounders, the first of which could be send to GCS, WCE or Sydney for one of the best off-contract midfielders this year in Prestia, Gaff and Mitchell. Then with their other first rounder, coup up the best key forward available to replace Vickery and learn under Jack. Potential recipe for success?

 

[TheBeardAmigos]

As I said earlier, I reckon it'll be a swap between experience and youth, similar to how the Shaw/Adams trade panned out that we did with the Giants. I think Lids and next year's 2nd in exchange for two outsiders whom are AFL quality and developing into better players; I see Marchbank and probably Steele as two guys who could satisfy the needs at Tigerland. Lids is a very good player, but I think for the future of the club, it's worth sitting down and looking at potential offers at his age.

As apart of another trade unrelated, Tigers should attempt to swap their 2017 first with a club who may not so much need their 2016 pick (Western Bulldogs maybe?). Do a little switcharoo and the Tiges have two first rounders, the first of which could be send to GCS, WCE or Sydney for one of the best off-contract midfielders this year in Prestia, Gaff and Mitchell. Then with their other first rounder, coup up the best key forward available to replace Vickery and learn under Jack. Potential recipe for success?

i reckon we can start speculating in which direction the club is moving towards, after the teams come out tonight.
if they are playing kids like McBean, Markov etc, then they may be considering looking at offers for guys like Deledio.
but for me, the most important day in the Tigers season is tonight

 

[smasha]

To be truthful he wouldn't be valued at much higher then pick 12. I'm not trying to stir, but he's 29?

The other reality is guys at 29 are likely to remain at their club. Let's say Richmond did want a clear out and sought value for Deledio, you'd be dreaming if you think you're getting a top 6 pick for him. If you were offered that, surely you'd take it and run?

Richmond have some tough calls to make and are not dissimilar to where Freo are at. Both clubs went mature age player route and had a crack but both are now top heavy. Freo were lucky in that injuries and a 0-10 start forced our hand to play youth. Richmond believed they could play finals until just last week.

You'd hope Richmond play some youngsters this weekend, especially after making a deal out of it.

Pick 12 probably wouldn't have Richmond jumping at a trade, but tough calls need to be made. If they want a fresh list this is what may need to be done. To bury your head in the sand and think your list is ok, is what will lead to years of mediocrity.

I'm not having a go at Richmond. Fremantle are in exactly the same position and North will be too very soon. How quickly teams cut and move on plays a massive part in their next run at it.

There you go.
He's not going anywhere anyway.
You can keep your bag of dust.