Review 2017 Expectations - Time to reflect

[calyam]

Walla's last game as a forward was better than anything he produced in defence. Plus there's the whole defending thing in defence.

While that is true it was also a single game against poor opposition. I recall Jake Carlisle having a couple of dominant games up forward but in reality he was a more effective and consistent defender. Tippa would have to show a lot more consistency up forward to match the influence he is capable of having when breaking defensive lines. I hope he manages it but I certainly wouldn't be surprised if he is more effective down back.

 

[Big Fresh]

While that is true it was also a single game against poor opposition. I recall Jake Carlisle having a couple of dominant games up forward but in reality he was a more effective and consistent defender. Tippa would have to show a lot more consistency up forward to match the influence he is capable of having when breaking defensive lines. I hope he manages it but I certainly wouldn't be surprised if he is more effective down back.

He's useless in the air and got badly beaten by his opponent a few times in the backline. His forward pressure's very useful. McKenna and Gleeson provide decent dash off half back.

 

[Summer Nights]

When are some of our supporters going to realise that it's not about our list of names on paper but how the team plays together as a team?

If the boys don't shepherd, block, work to the setup, read each other, lead and feed off each other then they simply will not be successful.

I think/hope they can, but trying to work out the probability of success based on the balance of our list alone is a mistake.

 

[bomberman500]

IMO
Teams that played finals and will be there again next year:
Sydney
GWS
Geelong
WB
Hawthorn
Adelaide

Finals teams that could miss
WCE

Finals teams that will miss
LoLNorf

Teams that could make the 8
Essendon
Port
St Kilda
Melbourne
GC
Collingwood

Dont bother
Richmond
Carlton
Fremantle
Brisbane

I think there will be some stiff competition for the 7th and 8th spot in the finals next season.
Hawthorn and Geelong will be worse off next year but still a cut above the rest

Of the teams ive listed as 'could make the 8', Essendon and GC made the bottom 6 so would have the easiest draw.

My estimate... 10-12 wins

 

[Lore]

IMO
Teams that played finals and will be there again next year:
Sydney
GWS
Geelong
WB
Hawthorn
Adelaide

Finals teams that could miss
WCE

Finals teams that will miss
LoLNorf

Teams that could make the 8
Essendon
Port
St Kilda
Melbourne
GC
Collingwood

Dont bother
Richmond
Carlton
Fremantle
Brisbane

I think there will be some stiff competition for the 7th and 8th spot in the finals next season.
Hawthorn and Geelong will be worse off next year but still a cut above the rest

Of the teams ive listed as 'could make the 8', Essendon and GC made the bottom 6 so would have the easiest draw.

My estimate... 10-12 wins

I love that of the teams you've got that 'could make the 8'... 3 of them have been pinching our players (and in Melbourne's case, also our coaches) and one has the wasted advantage of start-up picks and academy.

 

[ant555]

Personally i think we have too many what ifs to predict anything too grand.
I think the players coming back will be fine, a few may get back to their old form but that is the first if.

Second up Tom Bellchambers. Reports have been he is totally over his ankle injury. If that is the case then can he channel his inner tarzan and return to his 2013 form.

Third can Hooker kick straight ? The way things are looking unless we want to take over Kurt Tippets huge $ contract then the KP forward stocks are a bit thin both in the proven player market and the draft. I have confidence in Hurley , Hartley and Brown holding down the tall defenders spots so it could be we may have to rely on Hooker and Daniher to kick straight.

Fourth, we have to avoid the trap of going back to where we where. Can not run out with the same old 2010 to 2015 midfield. Some big names may miss out.

Finally the buy in. A lot of players have to change their ways. They have to be able to play more team defense and they have to follow Worsfold like ants to a sugar bag.

Like i said lots of what ifs.

 

[Skipper_]

I love that of the teams you've got that 'could make the 8'... 3 of them have been pinching our players (and in Melbourne's case, also our coaches) and one has the wasted advantage of start-up picks and academy.

I like how Collingwood needed no explanation.

 

[Bombers36]

Crownbet have us making the 8 - ranked ahead of Collingwood, Melbourne, St Kilda & Port. Probably about right I think

 

[Skipper_]

If we make the eight it is a massive tick for mine. Wouldn't be too disappointed if we miss out and fit into tat 9-12 range. Next year is for the group to gel together. 2018 is our year.

 

[hurlygurdy]

Personally i think we have too many what ifs to predict anything too grand.
I think the players coming back will be fine, a few may get back to their old form but that is the first if.

Second up Tom Bellchambers. Reports have been he is totally over his ankle injury. If that is the case then can he channel his inner tarzan and return to his 2013 form.

Third can Hooker kick straight ? The way things are looking unless we want to take over Kurt Tippets huge $ contract then the KP forward stocks are a bit thin both in the proven player market and the draft. I have confidence in Hurley , Hartley and Brown holding down the tall defenders spots so it could be we may have to rely on Hooker and Daniher to kick straight.

Fourth, we have to avoid the trap of going back to where we where. Can not run out with the same old 2010 to 2015 midfield. Some big names may miss out.

Finally the buy in. A lot of players have to change their ways. They have to be able to play more team defense and they have to follow Worsfold like ants to a sugar bag.

Like i said lots of what ifs.

There's always a million "what ifs". Because of ASAGA we have a double dose. For all your caution, you don't really bring up major impediments i note? Seems to me the biggest impediment is Hooker and JD kicking straight. A lot of teams would kill to have that be their major headache!
How do you rate the list in comparison to previous years (given we really have nothing else to go on)? When was the last time we had a better list?

 

[Bark Maguley]

We are going to demolish the comp if our players keep developing steadily and the 10 haven't fallen off.
However if the above doesn't happen (7th-11th)

 

[ant555]

There's always a million "what ifs". Because of ASAGA we have a double dose. For all your caution, you don't really bring up major impediments i note? Seems to me the biggest impediment is Hooker and JD kicking straight. A lot of teams would kill to have that be their major headache!
How do you rate the list in comparison to previous years (given we really have nothing else to go on)? When was the last time we had a better list?

I think we are in front of where we where in 2014 . There is a better blend of young players and this draft will add a few more really good young midfielders.
Next season is really a what if season across the board from top to bottom and I think it may be one of the most even seasons in history. The absolute key to our season will be how the older players buy into what Worsfold wants to do. There are a few blokes who like to run their own race and lets face it we have not been one of the best team orientated sides going around for a long time. If everyone gets on board and plays more team style rather than individual style then we will go a long way.
I have to see it first before I can see us being a top 4 side.
One example of what has to go is the attitude shown by Zaka in the last game. Long screaming and waving for help to cover 2 Carlton players and Zaka just standing 20 meters away watching and doing nothing. This has to end. If a second year bloke can see the problem then the senior blokes should as well. They need to work harder on the game and not just getting a kick. If it does not happen the we will win or 10 or 11 games or maybe 12 or 13 but we will never amount to much more. In the end we will be just another North or Richmond who failed to improve on their weakness and did not progress.
Also we can not go back to our old starting midfield and that will see players missing out.

 

[hurlygurdy]

I think we are in front of where we where in 2014 . There is a better blend of young players and this draft will add a few more really good young midfielders.
Next season is really a what if season across the board from top to bottom and I think it may be one of the most even seasons in history. The absolute key to our season will be how the older players buy into what Worsfold wants to do. There are a few blokes who like to run their own race and lets face it we have not been one of the best team orientated sides going around for a long time. If everyone gets on board and plays more team style rather than individual style then we will go a long way.
I have to see it first before I can see us being a top 4 side.
One example of what has to go is the attitude shown by Zaka in the last game. Long screaming and waving for help to cover 2 Carlton players and Zaka just standing 20 meters away watching and doing nothing. This has to end. If a second year bloke can see the problem then the senior blokes should as well. They need to work harder on the game and not just getting a kick. If it does not happen the we will win or 10 or 11 games or maybe 12 or 13 but we will never amount to much more. In the end we will be just another North or Richmond who failed to improve on their weakness and did not progress.
Also we can not go back to our old starting midfield and that will see players missing out.

I don't know if its an attitude problem. I think Zaka (and others) has the right attitude, but i think it is a football brain issue. It's a version of "reading the play" which is what the superstars do so well. Smart footballers can play the team game.
What is the midfield balance/mix that you want to see? Watson spending more time forward is a bit of a no brainer, but i'm not so sure Hocking fits so well off the ball? But perhaps he doesn't need to? Do we use Hocking and Myers as the alternating enforcers while rotating the rest through?

 

[BrunoV]

When are some of our supporters going to realise that it's not about our list of names on paper but how the team plays together as a team?

If the boys don't shepherd, block, work to the setup, read each other, lead and feed off each other then they simply will not be successful.

I think/hope they can, but trying to work out the probability of success based on the balance of our list alone is a mistake.

Agree with this and the sentiments of Kakkle and ant555 in the last few pages.

The first priority for team selection has to be to continue to build on the system that started to take shape at the end of 2016. It is clear that Worsfold places much more value on two way running than the previous coaching regime did.

There will be a number of senior players who hardly have claims to best 22 spots.

I don't see how we can fit all of Watson, Heppell, Myers and Hocking let alone Stanton and Howlett into a well balanced team. Before anyone mentions a preference for quick ball movement and skill over running, the capacity of a team to run is not really about running with the ball as much as it is being able to move the desired structure around the ground.

The biggest challenge I can see next year does not really have anything to do with the performances of returning players or learning systems (all of that can be covered in the upcoming preseason). I am going to assume that Laverde, Langford, Fantasia, Parish, McKenna, Gleeson, Hartley, Tippa and Dea will continue to improve at a similar rate (none of these guys were playing in rounds 1 and 2 in 2015). Francis will become a player we want playing sooner rather than later and there will be a gun kid or two who should play a lot of footy next year.

There is a good chance that Stanton, Hocking, Bellchambers, Howlett, Ambrose, Bird and, given that he is still listed, Dempsey are playing in the VFL for most of 2017. I'm not sure what having these players in the VFL will do for team harmony.

If everyone is happy and we get the balance of the side right at the selection table the "sky's the limit". Not saying that we will win a flag or necessarily make the top 4 but we'll be a very good chance of winning 13 to 15 games.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

There is a good chance that Stanton, Hocking, Bellchambers, Howlett, Ambrose, Bird and, given that he is still listed, Dempsey are playing in the VFL for most of 2017. I'm not sure what having these players in the VFL will do for team harmony.

They made a commitment to stick with Essendon when they could have easily left for another club would be a slap in the face if we told them they will play VFL next year. I just hope the club told all 10 players that there is a chance of them playing VFL before we got them to re-sign.

 

[sameolds33]

Agree with this and the sentiments of Kakkle and ant555 in the last few pages.

The first priority for team selection has to be to continue to build on the system that started to take shape at the end of 2016. It is clear that Worsfold places much more value on two way running than the previous coaching regime did.

There will be a number of senior players who hardly have claims to best 22 spots.

I don't see how we can fit all of Watson, Heppell, Myers and Hocking let alone Stanton and Howlett into a well balanced team. Before anyone mentions a preference for quick ball movement and skill over running, the capacity of a team to run is not really about running with the ball as much as it is being able to move the desired structure around the ground.

The biggest challenge I can see next year does not really have anything to do with the performances of returning players or learning systems (all of that can be covered in the upcoming preseason). I am going to assume that Laverde, Langford, Fantasia, Parish, McKenna, Gleeson, Hartley, Tippa and Dea will continue to improve at a similar rate (none of these guys were playing in rounds 1 and 2 in 2015). Francis will become a player we want playing sooner rather than later and there will be a gun kid or two who should play a lot of footy next year.

There is a good chance that Stanton, Hocking, Bellchambers, Howlett, Ambrose, Bird and, given that he is still listed, Dempsey are playing in the VFL for most of 2017. I'm not sure what having these players in the VFL will do for team harmony.

If everyone is happy and we get the balance of the side right at the selection table the "sky's the limit". Not saying that we will win a flag or necessarily make the top 4 but we'll be a very good chance of winning 13 to 15 games.

Agree with much of this but the great unknown is always injuries and how that affects the structure and make up of the team. As we saw this year, with the Bullies, the right mind set can overcome great adversary. I think that the legacy of the saga is the right mind set, that as bad as it can get, it'll never be as dire as it was over the last 4 years. Those players you have playing in the VFL may need to step up depending on how the year unfolds with form and injury. So much to look forward to!

 

[eDPS]

Lloydy expects us to finish 8-10. I wouldn't complain with that especially with an easier fixture and if we have luck with injuries

 

[daffo]

If we play both Hooker and Hurley down back we will sure up our defense. IMO one of our biggest issues is finding a ruck combination that works

Luey, Bellchambers, Daniher & Stewart (if we get him) are all pretty slow around the ground. If we put three of them in our side like I think we will, our side will be remarkably slower than a WB unit (think of how they set up with Roughead/Boyd). This is why Smack was so important to us. He needed to come on and be our back up ruck option.

Forward line will be fine this year as we'll be winning our far share of midfield ball.

 

[BrunoV]

They made a commitment to stick with Essendon when they could have easily left for another club would be a slap in the face if we told them they will play VFL next year. I just hope the club told all 10 players that there is a chance of them playing VFL before we got them to re-sign.

I am extremely skeptical of any claim that the club and certain players are on the same page.

If we're playing Bellchambers, Howlett, Stanton and Hocking in the one team we are going backwards at a rate of knots.

 

[BrunoV]

If we play both Hooker and Hurley down back we will sure up our defense. IMO one of our biggest issues is finding a ruck combination that works

Luey, Bellchambers, Daniher & Stewart (if we get him) are all pretty slow around the ground. If we put three of them in our side like I think we will, our side will be remarkably slower than a WB unit (think of how they set up with Roughead/Boyd). This is why Smack was so important to us. He needed to come on and be our back up ruck option.

Forward line will be fine this year as we'll be winning our far share of midfield ball.

Daniher slow around the ground? Our #6?

 

[eth-dog]

Daniher slow around the ground? Our #6?

Stewart too? His athleticism is one of his best assets.

 

[Chief Hopper]

It will be interesting if any teams, such as Essendon, try and emulate Bulldogs game plan next year or if it was a one time deal. Watching the finals series this year, its apparent that Bulldogs had a running midfield pack that would handball around opposition players out of trouble. Clarkson noted this in reflection of their loss.

 

[BrunoV]

Stewart too? His athleticism is one of his best assets.

I can cop Stewart because he is an unknown quantity (but it's my understanding that he is probably even more mobile than Daniher).

 

[eth-dog]

I can cop Stewart because he is an unknown quantity (but it's my understanding that he is probably even more mobile than Daniher).

He is.

 

[Rack Watts]

Luey, Bellchambers, Daniher & Stewart (if we get him) are all pretty slow around the ground.

We'd only play one of Bellchambers and Leuy, and Stewart and Daniher aren't lumbering beasts.
Daniher is incredibly agile, and has reasonable pace for his height, Stewart is quick and good below his knees.