Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion Part II

[Soapy V]

I agree of course but I just used what we currently have on hand.
The team you've put forward is possible............Very possible, but if we did end up with Hopper against Kelly, I'd like to see a mid we haven't talked about yet, end up with us.

Agree. I expect SOS to once again get someone we haven't considered and do a few other deals. If he can then get another 2-3 players late of the standard of Williamson or a Polson then we are in a great spot.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

But it is the "rest of the team" where the greatest upside is-our youngsters have more improvement in them than probably any other side. if you add that fact, to the fact that we have been right in most matches, then I come to the conclusion that our natural improvement in "rest of team"will get us over the line in a lot of matches next year. I say this assuming that our player attitudes stays as resilient as it has been this year. This aspect can go missing - look at the dogs this year

Yeh I agree and that's is why it is so exciting although I do expect a drop off from our top end.
I just don't think our kids are anything out of the ordinary. I'd say they would be in the top half of the comp but no better then plenty of teams. You only have to look at the talent the GC have brought in over the last few seasons and people still think they are a basket case. Our success will rely on things other then having the best youth imo

 

[LanceRomance]

I don't see it with The Saints.

Losing Reiwoldt & Montagna isn't going to help and not as much their output, but for on-field leadership.
The mid-field group is O.K. but without any guns who can take a game away from you.
Forward line? McCartin is mystery and Bruce can be had if you get into his head. What's after that?

I think they're a very MOR team. Just not enough guns....yet.

I'm more concerned about Essendon, actually.
They have some high picks that just haven't gelled yet and may never do so, but if they do.....; Langford, Laverde, Francis and Ridley.

Francis looks like he will be very very good.

I think I recall goreds saying he would be the best midfielder in that draft and could well have gone pick 1if it weren't for weiterings maturity.

Injuries are cruelling him at the moment and he is being made to earn his place through the VFL.


Langford reminds me of everitt in a few ways.. Skill is there.. But is the application?

Back to the Saints... Unless they do something special I think we will be ahead of them in two years.

 

[Soapy V]

Not bad but would prefer Plowman in the starting 18 and sorry but cannot see a young draftee ousting our most productive forward this year in Matty Wright.

I see Plowman as part of defensive rotation. Doesn't matter to me who starts. I like Wright and have no issue playing him but he is very inconsistent. It's why Adelaide delisted him. Like some others on our list when others go past them we will be in a much better position. I also think with a better midfield Gibbs, Murphy Cripps Charlie Hopper Cuningham etc will have better goal scoring options. High hopes for Polson & LeBois if they get a full pre season and if we get Rayner he will play straight away. JMO

 

[Soapy V]

Yeh I agree and that's is why it is so exciting although I do expect a drop off from our top end.
I just don't think our kids are anything out of the ordinary. I'd say they would be in the top half of the comp but no better then plenty of teams. You only have to look at the talent the GC have brought in over the last few seasons and people still think they are a basket case. Our success will rely on things other then having the best youth imo

Really? Best young group I have seen at Carlton in nearly 30 years. Coaching and development also first class as well.

Weitering SPS Charlie Williamson Marchbank Cripps are elite talents. Most clubs would be happy with 1 or 2.
Silvagni Fisher Cuningham Pickett McKay Macreadie are at worst very good.
Polson LeBois Kerr have a lot of talent, just need to step up. I think they will

The Jones Renaissance has helped as well.

Then add Pick 1 and Hopper & Balic who will all be 21 and Under in 2018. WOW

 

[therubbernub]

Yeh I agree and that's is why it is so exciting although I do expect a drop off from our top end.
I just don't think our kids are anything out of the ordinary. I'd say they would be in the top half of the comp but no better then plenty of teams. You only have to look at the talent the GC have brought in over the last few seasons and people still think they are a basket case. Our success will rely on things other then having the best youth imo

I see simpson and murphy dropping off a fraction. Murphy should be transitioned into the forward line with spells in the midfield. He has the ability to be a very damaging half forward and in an area of our weakness at the moment. Simpson could stay on a wing rather than HB with Byrne taking his place.
your comment about the quality of our kids is probably true. But the longer one observes AFL, the more one realizes that pure talent on its own is rarely enough. Even Judd was admired for his attitude, training, fitness and preparation. Cripps has taken it upon himself to excel in this regard as well before the arrival of BB. The elite players are elite because they were internally motivated as youngster ie habits learned really young have allowed them to fully capitalize on their innate talent which make them elite. Good to very good players can cruise along . Rarely do you get an elite talent transition like GAJ . I really believe that even if our players arent the most talented youngsters, what is far more important is their development under the coaches and how they are motivated, and that has completely turned 180 degrees since BB. We have gone from probably the worse to arguably the best with BB IMO. Our players are going to go past many young groups on the basis that we have a really good coaching team

 

[F_therest]

Really? Best young group I have seen at Carlton in nearly 30 years. Coaching and development also first class as well.

Weitering SPS Charlie Williamson Marchbank Cripps are elite talents. Most clubs would be happy with 1 or 2.
Silvagni Fisher Cuningham Pickett McKay Macreadie are at worst very good.
Polson LeBois Kerr have a lot of talent, just need to step up. I think they will

The Jones Renaissance has helped as well.

Think majority of footy fans would agree with you there.

Part of the reason we are getting compared to Brisbane...both teams have a lot of exciting young talent and some that could be elite.

North and saints however have some young players who look good, but not many that look like being elite.

Don't think either of them have someone with the talent of Curnow, sps, Weitering, hipwood, mccluggage etc except billings and maybe Simpkin.

 

[HARKER]

Don't think either of them have someone with the talent of Curnow, sps, Weitering, hipwood, mccluggage etc except billings and maybe Simpkin.

Exactly, and it's the depth of talent that matters.
Where I feel us to be ahead though, is in leadership.
We already have several young players that have genuine leadership qualities and will be around for another 10 years or so; Cripps, Docherty, Weitering, SPS, Plowman, Williamson etc.

The more players the opposition have to fear, the more mistakes they'll make.

 

[Cripps17]

Next year will tell us a lot as to how well the rebuild has gone. That'll be three years that Bolts and SOS have had to shape the list.

Despite our poor recruiting prior, they've also got Cripps, Kreuz, Docherty, Gibbs, Murph, Marchbank, Plowman, Ed, Jones, Pickett and Bryne as a core that will have been in the system 4+ years.

Of course I'm happy with our list, but another bottom 4 result must start to raise questions.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Really? Best young group I have seen at Carlton in nearly 30 years. Coaching and development also first class as well.

Weitering SPS Charlie Williamson Marchbank Cripps are elite talents. Most clubs would be happy with 1 or 2.
Silvagni Fisher Cuningham Pickett McKay Macreadie are at worst very good.
Polson LeBois Kerr have a lot of talent, just need to step up. I think they will

The Jones Renaissance has helped as well.

Then add Pick 1 and Hopper & Balic who will all be 21 and Under in 2018. WOW

At this point in time I think 2008 was better

 

[Soapy V]

At this point in time I think 2008 was better

Sarcasm?

 

[Soapy V]

Of course I'm happy with our list, but another bottom 4 result must start to raise questions.

Disagree entirely. Kids on average need at least 30 games to be consistent influential players. Even harder to have an effect when you have such a young side and so many players with so few games. Next year we will even be younger and getting more games into the kids. I can't see any other way. In most peoples Best 22 we have something like 10-15 players that will have less than 25 games at the start of 2018. That's not including the newer draftees

IMO it's 2019 as a minimum before we start to really climb the ladder.

 

[AFLOnline]

Hey guys,

What have you heard about Kelly? It seems every club has someone seemingly ITK who has said Kelly has agreed to terms with their own team.

Going to be very interesting come trade week when 3-4 different teams all think he is a done deal lol. It'll be a shit storm of tears for the teams who miss out on him (not insinuating that's you guys, let's hope it's Norf.)

 

[HARKER]

Hey guys,

What have you heard about Kelly? It seems every club has someone seemingly ITK who has said Kelly has agreed to terms with their own team.

Going to be very interesting come trade week when 3-4 different teams all think he is a done deal lol. It'll be a shit storm of tears for the teams who miss out on him (not insinuating that's you guys, let's hope it's Norf.)

Read our rumours only thread.

 

[Jimmae]

Totally agree. Couldn't be happier with what we are doing and the kids we have but to expect significant improvement in just 12 months is unrealistic IMO. That 30 plus game mark across the board is when we will see a real step up and that will be hard given the possibility of another group of kids coming in for 2018. The odds are that our list will be a lot younger

We could have easily had 10 wins this season, and we're unlucky to have 5. 10 wins next season is well within reach, though 12 would be fantastic.

Hey guys,

What have you heard about Kelly? It seems every club has someone seemingly ITK who has said Kelly has agreed to terms with their own team.

Going to be very interesting come trade week when 3-4 different teams all think he is a done deal lol. It'll be a shit storm of tears for the teams who miss out on him (not insinuating that's you guys, let's hope it's Norf.)

We've not been just hearing it here and there, we've had all the wider reports (Brown on Fox, etc), plus other team's ITK drop in to confirm. We're the frontrunners for sure, and it's going to take a more competitive looking outfit over the next 3-5 years to come along with a similar or better offer, and it sounds like there aren't any.

 

[G-TRAIN07]

cookie monster

 

[G-TRAIN07]

Id give all 3

Someone did say sos is a monster. This could be a hint

 

[AFLOnline]

Read our rumours only thread.

Will do, thanks!

We could have easily had 10 wins this season, and we're unlucky to have 5. 10 wins next season is well within reach, though 12 would be fantastic.


We've not been just hearing it here and there, we've had all the wider reports (Brown on Fox, etc), plus other team's ITK drop in to confirm. We're the frontrunners for sure, and it's going to take a more competitive looking outfit over the next 3-5 years to come along with a similar or better offer, and it sounds like there aren't any.

This is what I mean, every club has been saying this stuff. A lot of people are going to be found out when it's proven false

 

[Jimmae]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-08-17/youre-the-list-manager-your-dream-trades

Dream Trades

Bryce Gibbs to Adelaide for two first-round picks, then trade the two picks to GWS with Tom Williamson or Harrison Macreadie for Josh Kelly and Jacob Hopper.

- Robert Dyke, Melbourne

SHOW URSELF COWARD

Bryce Gibbs for a second-round pick and Harrison Wigg.

- Mitchell Kerr, Adelaide

Pretty sure this was meant to go in the Adelaide quotes...

 

[Soapy V]

We could have easily had 10 wins this season, and we're unlucky to have 5. 10 wins next season is well within reach, though 12 would be fantastic.

Could have easily only won 3-4 as well. Results aren't a big deal for me at the moment. We are very competitive, attitude and culture is great and with kids there is great hope for the future.

Go Blues!

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Sarcasm?

No not at all.

Murphy, Kruezer, Gibbs, Walker, Betts, Jacobs and Jamison all 21 or under.

Then we had Grigg, Hampson, Russell and Bower (who I remember someone saying had similar stats to Marchbank at the same age) who all showed something and were top 20 picks under 21 years old.
Then we had players like Armfield, Bentick and Blackwell even Joseph and Ellard all under 22 who had shown easily as much as lot of our kids have so far.
We had Simpson who was a year older then Cripps is now and then Carrazzo, Waite and Judd the same age as Doc.

Im not saying we don't have good youth just that it's nothing out of the ordinary

 

[Soapy V]

No not at all.

Murphy, Kruezer, Gibbs, Walker, Betts, Jacobs and Jamison all 21 or under.

Then we had Grigg, Hampson, Russell and Bower (who I remember someone saying had similar stats to Marchbank at the same age) who all showed something and were top 20 picks under 21 years old.
Then we had players like Armfield, Bentick and Blackwell even Joseph and Ellard all under 22 who had shown easily as much as lot of our kids have so far.
We had Simpson who was a year older then Cripps is now and then Carrazzo, Waite and Judd the same age as Doc.

Im not saying we don't have good youth just that it's nothing out of the ordinary

Fair to say our opinions are polar opposite on this matter

 

[Jeremias]

I like Wright and have no issue playing him but he is very inconsistent. It's why Adelaide delisted him. Like some others on our list when others go past them we will be in a much better position.

Younger doesn't always equal better.

Wright had an impressive first year at the club and this year has managed to lift his scoreboard impact quite substantially, despite the team averaging just two points more per game.

Inconsistency was certainly an issue for him at the Crows but is not a particularly valid criticism of his time at Carlton given he is finding ways to contribute just about every week, be it on the scoreboard or otherwise.

You had him out of the side leading into this season which was just crazy, and it's about time he gets the respect he deserves for the job he has done for us.

Once again - leading in to next season he clearly has a spot in our best side and it is his to lose. Currently he's a long way ahead of the other options.

 

[Azul]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-08-17/youre-the-list-manager-your-dream-trades

Josh Kelly is off to the Demons or NM

First-round pick and Angus Brayshaw or Sam Weideman for Josh Kelly.
- Stefan van Boxtel, Upwey Vic

Picks three and 20 to GWS for Josh Kelly.
- Matt Black, Hobart Tas

 

[4thchicken]

would we consider yarran on the rookie list? still young enough and we'd have people at the club that know what he is like (when not drug impacted)