Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion Part II

[Azul]

Cheers for reading

Thanks!

Lebois, Polson, Kerr and Boekhorst are the only ones from that list I'd keep. The rest have had enough time to impress.

Jesse G-M was always a project player and might attract another year but only because of the age and longevity of White, Rowe (knee) and ASOS.

 

[Arr0w]

Thanks!

Lebois, Polson, Kerr and Boekhorst are the only ones from that list I'd keep. The rest have had enough time to impress.

Jesse G-M was always a project player and might attract another year but only because of the age and longevity of White, Rowe (knee) and ASOS.

I would like the club to offer JGM another year. Has some attributes that may take some time, but his agility for size and has aggression at the contest are worth some perseverance

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

...........which group of players is more invested in team ethics and standards.

Talent is great but a group buy-in takes you up another level.

That'll play a massive part of it and both clubs look to be in very good hands

 

[Soapy V]

Some discussion at the weekend from some Carlton members at the game. All I know is they go into the rooms before and after most games. Don't shoot the messenger!

Balic for Boekhurst being discussed. Balic almost a certainty
Kelly. No one really knows. More hope than anything. Odds are he stays
Hopper a real chance. Is coming back to Vic. Cats having a real crack at him
3 or 4 year deal offered to Miles from Richmond. SOS a fan. This is about the third time I have been told this.

 

[LanceRomance]

Why miles... Why on a long contract too...

 

[HARKER]

Why miles... Why on a long contract too...

We need some midfield depth and we have to take a couple of 'cheapies' off other teams hands.

It's just the state of play, as we're not moving on any of our youth and don't have seniors we want to, or can, move off to advantage.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

When asked to compare the young talent on the Lions list with ours I look at the 20 and under set. I look at only those who have actually played at least a game at the level. It is an arbitrary line but, by and large (J. Pickett being an obvious exception) once a player has reached 21 the player should be 90% the player they will be.

The Lions have 12 players on their list 20 or under who have played AFL. Of those 12 I am prepared to admit Allison, Andrews, Berry, Cox, Hipwood, Mathieson, McLuggage and Witherden have all shown there is no obvious reason why they will not be playing good footy for the next 10 years. That is 3 mids, I KPD, 1 KPF and 3 utilities, a very nice balance. Schache is a young tall and they do take time but there are obvious concerns about him making the grade. I don't think Ben Keays has done enough in his 26 games to show he is really at the level and Sam Skinner (1 game), Rueben Williams (3) are unknown to me.

Of the Blues I expect Cuningham, Curnow, Fisher, Macreadie, Marchbank, McKay, SPS, SOJ, Weitering and Williamson to be playing good footy for the next 10 years. That gives us 3 KPD, 2 KPF, 3 mids and 2 utilities (SOJ and Williamson - who may become a mid). We are not as well balanced because with Jones and Plowman we already have 2 KPDs that have 5 years of good footy in them (if Jones retains his amazing form). Polson has played only 1 game and whilst Soapy might be right that he (and Lebois with a full preseason etc etc) will be stars, he has not shown anything at the level to have any confidence they will be around for the next 10 years. Whilst McKay has only played 2 games without getting much of the ball, I am convinced he will be very good long term. Playing on the BB forward line is a graveyard for big stats. He has kicked 3 goals and is already our leading goal scorer on average per game over his career (and second only to Caz this season). I also note McKay can move, recording a top speed of 32.2 kph in his second game, against Geelong (and 4th fastest on the ground).

I think their 3 mids might have a bit more upside in that McL, Witherden and SPS might all become A graders whilst Mathieson, Fisher and Cuners are likely B graders.

Hipwood has proven he will be a gun forward and is ahead of McKay. His top speed against us was 32.8 kph so he can move very quickly too. Accepting that, McKay's stats on footwire compare very nicely with Hipwoods. There is no reason why McKay's past 2 seasons of injury interruption should continue and, indeed, he has the bigger body of the 2 very tall forwards which might protect him longer term from the crash and bash. And then we have Charlie, who if not the Rising Star this year will be a star in years to come up forward, in the midfield, in defence and around the ground (a la Kouta circa 1999 PF v Ess).

For tall defenders Andrews is very promising but not any more promising than Weiters or Marchbank and they have shown more at this stage.

Allison, Berry and Cox are promising but so are SOJ, Williamson and Macreadie (who has the speed to play in a variety of positions). It is easy to forget that Macreadie is 196 cm and yet has played 8 games in his debut season, never looking out of place. Not easy to do. Massive upside. Likewise Williamson has made himself a permanent member of the team still aged only 18 and with massive upside with his speed, endurance and disposal skill.

So, as good as the cubs are, I still rate the blue babies ahead of them both in quantity and quality. Sure, for team success we will need more quality mids. But we already knew that. Now where is Josh Kelly and Hopper?

Good post. You are very harsh on Schache though. I think both McKay and SOJ have just as many question marks hanging over them as he does.

 

[Soapy V]

I would like the club to offer JGM another year. Has some attributes that may take some time, but his agility for size and has aggression at the contest are worth some perseverance

Shown glimpses and had some unlucky injuries. Issue is our defence has heaps of options. He is like a lot of players on our list that may not know their fate until after trade period.

 

[Soapy V]

We need some midfield depth and we have to take a couple of 'cheapies' off other teams hands.

It's just the state of play, as we're not moving on any of our youth and don't have seniors we want to, or can, move off to advantage.

25 and a hard nut ball winner. May be to help Cripps and release Murphy? Not getting a game so shouldn't cost much

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Everyone get over to the main board thread about Blues and Lions and vote for the Blues.
Which team has the better future prospects on field?
Lions currently leading the vote 147-107

EDIT: Just realised the thread was started in July in the lead up to our game against them. But still vote!

 

[Gingerbread man]

Silly comment was the only player that refused

On SM-G950F using BigFooty.com mobile app

I have concerns about a man who is afraid of a little needle

 

[Azul]

I would like the club to offer JGM another year. Has some attributes that may take some time, but his agility for size and has aggression at the contest are worth some perseverance

I'm not one to measure his progress but the VFL reports from the coach suggest that so far he has a long way to go.

But on the plus side, he wears Number 40. Jamo was a year older when he made his debut and was a limited footballer in his first year before becoming full back of the new millennium.

 

[Gingerbread man]

When asked to compare the young talent on the Lions list with ours I look at the 20 and under set. I look at only those who have actually played at least a game at the level. It is an arbitrary line but, by and large (J. Pickett being an obvious exception) once a player has reached 21 the player should be 90% the player they will be.

The Lions have 12 players on their list 20 or under who have played AFL. Of those 12 I am prepared to admit Allison, Andrews, Berry, Cox, Hipwood, Mathieson, McLuggage and Witherden have all shown there is no obvious reason why they will not be playing good footy for the next 10 years. That is 3 mids, I KPD, 1 KPF and 3 utilities, a very nice balance. Schache is a young tall and they do take time but there are obvious concerns about him making the grade. I don't think Ben Keays has done enough in his 26 games to show he is really at the level and Sam Skinner (1 game), Rueben Williams (3) are unknown to me.

Of the Blues I expect Cuningham, Curnow, Fisher, Macreadie, Marchbank, McKay, SPS, SOJ, Weitering and Williamson to be playing good footy for the next 10 years. That gives us 3 KPD, 2 KPF, 3 mids and 2 utilities (SOJ and Williamson - who may become a mid). We are not as well balanced because with Jones and Plowman we already have 2 KPDs that have 5 years of good footy in them (if Jones retains his amazing form). Polson has played only 1 game and whilst Soapy might be right that he (and Lebois with a full preseason etc etc) will be stars, he has not shown anything at the level to have any confidence they will be around for the next 10 years. Whilst McKay has only played 2 games without getting much of the ball, I am convinced he will be very good long term. Playing on the BB forward line is a graveyard for big stats. He has kicked 3 goals and is already our leading goal scorer on average per game over his career (and second only to Caz this season). I also note McKay can move, recording a top speed of 32.2 kph in his second game, against Geelong (and 4th fastest on the ground).

I think their 3 mids might have a bit more upside in that McL, Witherden and SPS might all become A graders whilst Mathieson, Fisher and Cuners are likely B graders.

Hipwood has proven he will be a gun forward and is ahead of McKay. His top speed against us was 32.8 kph so he can move very quickly too. Accepting that, McKay's stats on footwire compare very nicely with Hipwoods. There is no reason why McKay's past 2 seasons of injury interruption should continue and, indeed, he has the bigger body of the 2 very tall forwards which might protect him longer term from the crash and bash. And then we have Charlie, who if not the Rising Star this year will be a star in years to come up forward, in the midfield, in defence and around the ground (a la Kouta circa 1999 PF v Ess).

For tall defenders Andrews is very promising but not any more promising than Weiters or Marchbank and they have shown more at this stage.

Allison, Berry and Cox are promising but so are SOJ, Williamson and Macreadie (who has the speed to play in a variety of positions). It is easy to forget that Macreadie is 196 cm and yet has played 8 games in his debut season, never looking out of place. Not easy to do. Massive upside. Likewise Williamson has made himself a permanent member of the team still aged only 18 and with massive upside with his speed, endurance and disposal skill.

So, as good as the cubs are, I still rate the blue babies ahead of them both in quantity and quality. Sure, for team success we will need more quality mids. But we already knew that. Now where is Josh Kelly and Hopper?

Johno Brown said on the couch last night that he preferred the lions ( no surprise) but he did so based only on the fact that the lions senior players were younger than ours

 

[Arr0w]

Shown glimpses and had some unlucky injuries. Issue is our defence has heaps of options. He is like a lot of players on our list that may not know their fate until after trade period.

I guess the strength of our KPP's would the very reason why he could be given another year, no pressure and allow him time to develop.

With others that would be on the exit list, it frees up more than enough spots to target midfielders and a project ruckman

Buckley
KJ
Army (retiring)
Gorringe
White
Sheehan
Korcheck
Galluci

Not to mention other players that could be traded and or be part of further delistings.

Need to give these tall project KPP's some time

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Saw an interesting list on the main board in relation to the value of a draft pick.

Senior List

Did a quick review of the 10 national drafts between 2004 and 2013 and came up with these results:
Pick 1: 0 elite, 8 above average, 2 average, 0 below average, 0 poor
Pick 2: 3, 3, 1, 3, 0
Pick 3: 1, 2, 7, 0, 0
Pick 4: 2, 1, 3, 3, 1
Pick 5: 2, 2, 5, 1, 0
Pick 6: 0, 1, 4, 3, 2
Pick 7: 1, 2, 5, 2, 0
Pick 8: 0, 1, 5, 2, 2
Pick 9: 0, 0, 8, 2, 0
Pick 10: 2, 1, 2, 3, 2
Pick 11: 0, 4, 1, 2, 3
Pick 12: 0, 3, 1, 1, 5
Pick 13: 0, 7, 2, 0, 1
Pick 14: 0, 3, 5, 1, 1
Pick 15: 0, 1, 5, 1, 3
Pick 16: 0, 0, 5, 5, 0
Pick 17: 0, 1, 2, 2, 4
Pick 18: 1, 2, 1, 3, 3
Pick 19: 0, 1, 4, 1, 4
Pick 20: 1, 0, 0, 4, 5

So when we talk about #4 and #10 for Kelly, we are really talking 4 elite players from those picks out of 20 selections. Seems a no brainer to take the established gun doesn't it? We do like the mystery box though.

 

[ShanDog]

Saw an interesting list on the main board in relation to the value of a draft pick.



So when we talk about #4 and #10 for Kelly, we are really talking 4 elite players from those picks out of 20 selections. Seems a no brainer to take the established gun doesn't it? We do like the mystery box though.

THE MYSTERY BOX COULD HAVE ANYTHING! EVEN AN ELITE PLAYER!!

 

[Wickzki]

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Saw an interesting list on the main board in relation to the value of a draft pick.



So when we talk about #4 and #10 for Kelly, we are really talking 4 elite players from those picks out of 20 selections. Seems a no brainer to take the established gun doesn't it? We do like the mystery box though.

Cripps was pick #13 in 2013 draft. Yet I see a 0 in the elite column for pick #13.

That pretty much nullifies that person's opinion on elite players for me.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Some discussion at the weekend from some Carlton members at the game. All I know is they go into the rooms before and after most games. Don't shoot the messenger!

Balic for Boekhurst being discussed. Balic almost a certainty
Kelly. No one really knows. More hope than anything. Odds are he stays
Hopper a real chance. Is coming back to Vic. Cats having a real crack at him
3 or 4 year deal offered to Miles from Richmond. SOS a fan. This is about the third time I have been told this.

If Gibbs is staying as some of the reliable posters are now suggesting, Id prefer we look at Hopper as the priority over Kelly. I'm leaning towards Kelly re - signing anyway. Id be pretty pleased to have Balic and Miles both coming in trade period myself.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Good post. You are very harsh on Schache though. I think both McKay and SOJ have just as many question marks hanging over them as he does.

I agree that both Harry and Jack have question marks at present by I also get the feeling that Schache isn't going to be a mainstay for the Lions. Hipwood will be the go to KPF. Schache will be in and out of the team regularly imo.

 

[Wickzki]

I agree that both Harry and Jack have question marks at present by I also get the feeling that Schache isn't going to be a mainstay for the Lions. Hipwood will be the go to KPF. Schache will be in and out of the team regularly imo.

You probably see as much of the Lions as I do given we're both living up here but I tend to think Schache just needs another two or so years of physical, mental and personal development before he becomes a bonafide senior grade AFL player. However, as much as he needs to grow into his body I think he has as many issues between the ears as he does physically. What say you?

 

[ITCHY EYEBALLS]

If Gibbs is staying as some of the reliable posters are now suggesting, Id prefer we look at Hopper as the priority over Kelly. I'm leaning towards Kelly re - signing anyway. Id be pretty pleased to have Balic and Miles both coming in trade period myself.

Hopper, Miles, Balic and we keep Gibbs and pk 3-4 is fine by me.

 

[Lawrence Angwin]

Cripps was pick #13 in 2013 draft. Yet I see a 0 in the elite column for pick #13.

That pretty much nullifies that person's opinion on elite players for me.

Docherty was pick #12 in 2012 draft too, yet another 0 in the elite column.

Definitely can't judge talent!


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[Soapy V]

Hopper, Miles, Balic and we keep Gibbs and pk 3-4 is fine by me.

Agree plus another 4-5 great draft picks by SOS [emoji41]

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Docherty was pick #12 in 2012 draft too, yet another 0 in the elite column.

Definitely can't judge talent!


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

He has only rated 13 elite so he probably only rates the top 20 or less players in the competition elite which is fair enough to leave Doc and Cripps out.
The problem is it's hard to judge its accuracy because anybody would be happy with Cripps at pick 1 even though he is not "elite".
I don't know how you can really get around the problem because everything is subjective