Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion Part II

[HereComesJuddy]

Okay, I understand how you see it.

Tell me with the current assets that we have at our disposal, what would you give up for Kelly, that is fair for both clubs

You keep harping on about whether you think something is fair or disagree with what someone else see's as fair. Ive been on this site long enough to know whatever i put forward, you will disagree with. Its all ive read for the last 10 pages.

IF Kelly chooses us. A deal will get done. We wont overpay

 

[StandByyourMan]

Who knows what will happen in 18 months time, and whether Murphy will be right to go for it. He's extremely professional about his preparation, and only injury is going to force him into retirement any time soon.

The Tuohy to Geelong component of that trade was not great, and we'd never have bothered if it weren't for the GWS component. I'm sure SOS would never have left himself in the lurch otherwise.

The notion of losing Gibbs and Murphy, only to get Kelly and an underdeveloped Hopper back while downgrading our picks is unpalatable from a commercial and football department perspective.

To recap the proposed trade one more time:


Again, that's out captain, vice captain and probably a drop of 8-10 draft spots in the first round to get Kelly and Hopper while doing GWS a favour.

At this stage all that needs to happen with Murphy is he needs to relinquish the captaincy to Cripps. Doc vice. Let Murphy concentrate on his football and everyone take a deep breath.

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

Who knows what will happen in 18 months time, and whether Murphy will be right to go for it. He's extremely professional about his preparation, and only injury is going to force him into retirement any time soon.

The Tuohy to Geelong component of that trade was not great, and we'd never have bothered if it weren't for the GWS component. I'm sure SOS would never have left himself in the lurch otherwise.

The notion of losing Gibbs and Murphy, only to get Kelly and an underdeveloped Hopper back while downgrading our picks is unpalatable from a commercial and football department perspective.

To recap the proposed trade one more time:


Again, that's out captain, vice captain and probably a drop of 8-10 draft spots in the first round to get Kelly and Hopper while doing GWS a favour.

What's really unpalatable is having Gibbs and Murphy who are thirty and no name picks to develop
No matter how undeveloped hopper is the poor kid coming into our system with an ageing Murphy and Gibbs who wants to leave is more problematic going forward
Those Gibbs picks mean nothing unless you know what you'll get and you know what the names you're going to draft with those picks will be
Once we have all that we need to know that those players will be AFL capable
I'll take my chances with Kelly and hopper thanks

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

You've completely ruled out the impact on the playing group if you can't sell the trade to them, not to mention the learning curve required to get others up to scratch.

Kelly, Wilson and Griffen for 2 is a way better starting point.

If we keep Murphy pick up griffens contract and Kelly
We would be bursting at the seams
Especially if you factor in Wilson

I'm not against that if it's possible but i think it's highly optimistic

But one thing is for sure
Sos has wanted hopper for a year now

 

[Benaly28]

We will have pick 1.

 

[Arr0w]

You keep harping on about whether you think something is fair or disagree with what someone else see's as fair. Ive been on this site long enough to know whatever i put forward, you will disagree with. Its all ive read for the last 10 pages.

IF Kelly chooses us. A deal will get done. We wont overpay

Okay

 

[Azul]

We will have pick 1.

Brisbane to win 2 games,

Bulldogs, Gold Coast, Melbourne, North Melbourne - which two?

 

[zeeCFC]

Brisbane to win 2 games,

Bulldogs, Gold Coast, Melbourne, North Melbourne - which two?

gold coast and north

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

There's no such thing as overpaying really
You're going to pay what it takes to buy

 

[Das2Blue]

Just my opinion for list ....
keep Gibbs ..offer enough money to Casboult so he stays , then we go after the restricted free agents in Rockcliffe and Motlop ,both lions and cats most likely wont match highish bids as they tried to offload both last year and they should receive excellent compo for them.
keep our first round draft pick (eg.1,2or3) and forget kelly..

Rocky slides straight into our best midfield , Motlop at his most average is better then our best small forward and is decent mid .And of course our first rounder might be our new gun player ...

i await to have my opinion torn apart

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Brisbane to win 2 games,

Bulldogs, Gold Coast, Melbourne, North Melbourne - which two?

Let them win all 4 i say

 

[AB_Blue]

By giving Tuohy away for nothing, we strengthen Geelong's dynasty. They get a best 22 player for a mere 2-4 pick downgrade. One may say it doesn't matter to Carlton in the scheme of things but it's how Geelong challenge for their 4th or 5th flag without rebuilding.

Mate they gave us a future first round rounder for hendo (when they didn't have to) after just selling the farm for danger

We then flipped that to gws with 28 and landed the GWS 4 and Charlie Curnow
Add Marchbank and Pickett and smedts

We lost Hendo, 2e, Geelong future first our future second

We didn't exactly lose in the 2 years of trading with Geelong....

We gave a second to the hawks for 3 late selections which just may yield us a 10 year player and some potential in Kerr and Pols

We brained Richmond [emoji4] so these things just work out......

 

[FairKouta]

Just my opinion for list ....
keep Gibbs ..offer enough money to Casboult so he stays , then we go after the restricted free agents in Rockcliffe and Motlop ,both lions and cats most likely wont match highish bids as they tried to offload both last year and they should receive excellent compo for them.
keep our first round draft pick (eg.1,2or3) and forget kelly..

Rocky slides straight into our best midfield , Motlop at his most average is better then our best small forward and is decent mid .And of course our first rounder might be our new gun player ...

i await to have my opinion torn apart

motlop =ewwwww

 

[Benaly28]

Brisbane to win 2 games,

Bulldogs, Gold Coast, Melbourne, North Melbourne - which two?

Gold Coast/North

 

[Das2Blue]

motlop =ewwwww

Not quite as scathing as i thought might get...but that good if other teams feel same as you could mean he would be available cheaper than i thought , i really believe he might respond to the way that Bolton coaches in the right way..

 

[FairKouta]

Not quite as scathing as i thought might get...but that good if other teams feel same as you could mean he would be available cheaper than i thought , i really believe he might respond to the way that Bolton coaches in the right way..

I just don't think he can turn it around.
He is at geelong the coach is good the culture is strong the leadership and senior players should be ideal for kids to develop. If he hasn't turned it around there not sure he can at our club. We are just starting the journey building the culture. Plays very selfish and does not work hard enough however has the talent.
Sos would of had a good look at him last year during the 2E trade. If sos passed not for us.

 

[katmanblue]

At this stage all that needs to happen with Murphy is he needs to relinquish the captaincy to Cripps. Doc vice. Let Murphy concentrate on his football and everyone take a deep breath.

And move him to the forward pocket when we have some mid depth.

On SM-N920I using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[BlueRenaissance]

You keep harping on about whether you think something is fair or disagree with what someone else see's as fair. Ive been on this site long enough to know whatever i put forward, you will disagree with. Its all ive read for the last 10 pages.

IF Kelly chooses us. A deal will get done. We wont overpay

It is all debatable and its ok for everyone to put fwd their view including yourself. IMO we should be calling it out in these forums because there is a chance we overpay. For example, did Hawthorn overpay for Jaeger? Did Pies overpay for Trelaor? Yes they did IMO due to hype. Others will think those prices are fair. Doesn't mean we should not discuss to put out a warning.

The general debate does eventually have an impact in the public media. We now know we paid too much from Judd even though he was an awesome player.

As supporters we can state our view and hope general consensus puts it within reach of the media and Carlton's hierarchy. Cripps and his season ending injury is something that influences my decision on Kelly. I'd rather two good players if its two picks than 1 player who might get a hard tag or get injured derailing our entire season.....Cripps injury has wrecked our midfield completely disabling us from further wins.

Kelly for pick 2 alone. Yes, sign me up. Kelly for pick 2 and some nonsense pick like 50+, yes.
Kelly for two first rounders...no. Risk is too high. Would he be 23/24 next season? Then we have missed two good seasons and are paying a HUGE premium if it is two picks. No way. People just want instant gratification.

We debate this out loud in the forum in the hope we are heard in some way.

Silvagni has shown that he is a good operator so there is trust. Still, we should all put fwd our opinions as it does represent supporter sentiment.

Obv there are others on here saying .get him, get him....give em whatever they want as he is the next big thing.

 

[rp84]

Brisbane to win 2 games,

Bulldogs, Gold Coast, Melbourne, North Melbourne - which two?

Gc and north. Huge chance

 

[Jimmae]

Trigg on the AFL website is starting to hint at a 'stop the bleeding' type recruiting strategy at year's end.

Look there's a need to get something happening with our midfield, and if it's at the cost of a late pick and a list spot, and it's a pick or trade made with genuine growth in mind (think Menegola, Geelong's Stewart, Barlow), then I'm good with that.

We just have to trust that it's SOS calling the shots with the mature picks, not the old WA crew or the coach like the good ol' days. Remember that he picked ASOS.

At this stage all that needs to happen with Murphy is he needs to relinquish the captaincy to Cripps. Doc vice. Let Murphy concentrate on his football and everyone take a deep breath.

While Murphy could do with less pressure, I don't think anybody's ready to step up in that regard, but he definitely needs to feel less ragged in midfield, particularly if Gibbs goes.

What's really unpalatable is having Gibbs and Murphy who are thirty and no name picks to develop
No matter how undeveloped hopper is the poor kid coming into our system with an ageing Murphy and Gibbs who wants to leave is more problematic going forward
Those Gibbs picks mean nothing unless you know what you'll get and you know what the names you're going to draft with those picks will be
Once we have all that we need to know that those players will be AFL capable
I'll take my chances with Kelly and hopper thanks

That's if Gibbs goes. If he does, then it's a different story, but let's not chuck everything at high-level 1:1 offers when we need to continue to leapfrog teams with smart trades and picks.

We're running the GWS well dry, and we're staring at the last of our available chips to make another play. To continue with the poker analogy, I'd rather fold that bet the house on Kelly.

If we keep Murphy pick up griffens contract and Kelly
We would be bursting at the seams
Especially if you factor in Wilson

I'm not against that if it's possible but i think it's highly optimistic

But one thing is for sure
Sos has wanted hopper for a year now

We supposedly have a fairly fixed pay scale, one SOS presumably instituted at GWS, so I don't think it's going to be ridiculous, it's just a matter of how we can do this as cheaply as possible to maximise our midfield gains.

If that's Murphy and Gibbs out the door, I just want it to be for more than retreading old ground. Chuck Wilson (solid player) and Griffen (risk) in, and it's more of a starting point than swapping future picks.

I'd be doing cartwheels if we could get Hopper, Kelly, Wilson and Griffen for 2 and change, but I don't see that happening.

 

[BlueRenaissance]

We're running the GWS well dry, and we're staring at the last of our available chips to make another play. To continue with the poker analogy, I'd rather fold that bet the house on Kelly.

+1 Well said.

 

[agro]

The general debate does eventually have an impact in the public media. We now know we paid too much from Judd even though he was an awesome player.

We can hold our meetings in a phone box.

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

Gibbs will be gone if we're talking about what the club thinks right now
He might decide to stay but right now the noise is he's wanting to leave
Number two or one for Kelly is a no brainer

 

[DangerousD]

As long as we offer a list spot (not a rookie spot) I understand there is no problem

Greenwood is best 22 at the Crows, could be steak knives but he is not young.
Bailey Dale as well is a good player and I suspect will cost more than a third

 

[DangerousD]

I think Kelly is a net gain on Gibbs, as Gibbs has 3-4 more years of AFL and Kelly has 7-8+ (Double)

I Really want to keep pick #2, so if trading Gibbs for say #10 + Greenwood and then on trading #10 and Murphy for Kelly works we would end up with 2 midfielders with 7-8 years, and #2 with 10+ years future. Next year we may drop off without Murphy and Gibbs but think 3-5 years forward as we are rebuilding.

You know Greeneood is 26 next year don't you?