Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion

[thylacine60]

Smith , Hopper and Kennedy
All from the Giants
Anyone for another package deal ?
Be worth it just for the opposition melts ...

Should we be showing interest in our drafting or GWS's?

 

[El Topo]

GET HOPPER

 

[Iamcarlton]

Mumford (Sydney, probably GWS soon), Jolly (moreso at the Pies), Ottens (Geelong) and Cox (WCE) come to mind.

So it's pretty much only the Hawks who have got around this, but even their success tapered when they lost Hale; not a traditional leading ruck, but very important to their structure and reliable when called upon.

Hale what are you talking about they have Vickery! surely an upgrade on Hale

 

[LordLucifer]

We're very keen on Balic,Smith,Hooper and Kennedy.

Not wanting to rain on your parade but I'd reckon we won't be the only club "keen" on those four players.

Balic made his debut on the weekend for Freo and did quite well, I wouldn't be expecting them to be eager to move him on in a hurry.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-04-08/match-report-newlook-dockers-stun-premiers-in-massive-upset

"Logue's ability to find the football (10 disposals) and stand up in the contest was impressive for a teenager, while midfielder Harley Balic was tough at the coalface."

As for the other three, they'd be nice too but it's all a question of what sort of suitable deal we could structure to get one or more of them from the Giants. I'd also like to know how many more favours SOS has left in his old GWS briefcase, his relationship to date has been fantastic but you'd have to think it will dry up sooner or later.





*Mod edit: When quoting from an outside source, post a link

 

[therubbernub]

We're very keen on Balic,Smith,Hooper and Kennedy.

Balic -yeah!

 

[Jeremias]

I'd also like to know how many more favours SOS has left in his old GWS briefcase, his relationship to date has been fantastic but you'd have to think it will dry up sooner or later.

Why?

It's not as though we haven't done them any favours along the way...

In 2015 we were happy to take on additional contracts in order to get Plowman to the club at a discount.

In 2016 we were happy to take Palmer in order to get Marchbank and Pickett to the club at a discount.

All deals SOS has done with the Giants in his time at the club have been mutually beneficial. There is no logical reason as to why that has to "dry up", and there is every chance we see a repeat of it at the end of this season.

 

[Red Bull]

Not wanting to rain on your parade but I'd reckon we won't be the only club "keen" on those four players.

Balic made his debut on the weekend for Freo and did quite well, I wouldn't be expecting them to be eager to move him on in a hurry.

"Logue's ability to find the football (10 disposals) and stand up in the contest was impressive for a teenager, while midfielder Harley Balic was tough at the coalface."

As for the other three, they'd be nice too but it's all a question of what sort of suitable deal we could structure to get one or more of them from the Giants. I'd also like to know how many more favours SOS has left in his old GWS briefcase, his relationship to date has been fantastic but you'd have to think it will dry up sooner or later.

There would be no favors from the Giants but if any of those boys are out of contract and nominate Carlton , they'll have to deal with us.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Why?

It's not as though we haven't done them any favours along the way...

In 2015 we were happy to take on additional contracts in order to get Plowman to the club at a discount.

In 2016 we were happy to take Palmer in order to get Marchbank and Pickett to the club at a discount.

All deals SOS has done with the Giants in his time at the club have been mutually beneficial. There is no logical reason as to why that has to "dry up", and there is every chance we see a repeat of it at the end of this season.

Yeah but their list management department has a distinct Richmond flavour now. They'll probably ask for 7 first round picks for Hopper.

 

[Jeremias]

Yeah but their list management department has a distinct Richmond flavour now. They'll probably ask for 7 first round picks for Hopper.

Even better!

Perhaps we can see if they'll give us a top 20 pick for Daisy...or a second round pick for Korcheck?

 

[LordLucifer]

Why?

It's not as though we haven't done them any favours along the way...

In 2015 we were happy to take on additional contracts in order to get Plowman to the club at a discount.

In 2016 we were happy to take Palmer in order to get Marchbank and Pickett to the club at a discount.

All deals SOS has done with the Giants in his time at the club have been mutually beneficial. There is no logical reason as to why that has to "dry up", and there is every chance we see a repeat of it at the end of this season.

You are right, they were mutually beneficial but why would we have exclusive rights to these deals ??

My point is that to date, SOS's strong relationship has prevented most of the other clubs from getting in on the action and outbidding us. He's no magician or hypnotist so I'm questioning how much longer he can give us that inside running with GWS before they throw it wide open to the other clubs.

 

[F_therest]

In an ideal world I'd agree but if we keep Gibbs and Kruz where are the draft picks coming from?
We already don't have a 2nd this year. We are replacing a lot of players as you said, there is no use replacing them with rubbish picks.

SOS is a genius! He makes even rubbish works like Macreadie, Polson & Williamson

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

You are right, they were mutually beneficial but why would we have exclusive rights to these deals ??

My point is that to date, SOS's strong relationship has prevented most of the other clubs from getting in on the action and outbidding us. He's no magician or hypnotist so I'm questioning how much longer he can give us that inside running with GWS before they throw it wide open to the other clubs.

Our advantage is the GWS boys know SOS and their mates down at Carlton, Bolton is a great coach and we look to be doing the right things. Sos doesn't need to have connections anymore. Our foots already in the door there.

 

[Jeremias]

You are right, they were mutually beneficial but why would we have exclusive rights to these deals ??

We don't have exclusive rights, we've just been in pole position. I don't expect that to change just yet.

 

[Jeremias]

Our advantage is the GWS boys know SOS and their mates down at Carlton, Bolton is a great coach and we look to be doing the right things. Sos doesn't need to have connections anymore. Our foots already in the door there.

The other advantage being the significant amount of $ we have spare in the cap, and the willingness to effectively fill that with depth players.

There wouldn't be too many other clubs around at the moment (a) with the space in the cap we have, and (b) the willingness to almost mortgage off a list spot.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

The other advantage being the significant amount of $ we have spare in the cap, and the willingness to effectively fill that with depth players.

There wouldn't be too many other clubs around at the moment (a) with the space in the cap we have, and (b) the willingness to almost mortgage off a list spot.

Plus they all grew up going for us didn't they?

 

[LordLucifer]

The other advantage being the significant amount of $ we have spare in the cap, and the willingness to effectively fill that with depth players.

There wouldn't be too many other clubs around at the moment (a) with the space in the cap we have, and (b) the willingness to almost mortgage off a list spot.

We are willing to fill our list with "depth" players ??

Sorry, I don't agree with that at all.

 

[Jeremias]

Plus they all grew up going for us didn't they?

Not sure...

We are willing to fill our list with "depth" players ??

Sorry, I don't agree with that at all.

You don't have to agree, but it's pretty clear that's what we've done with Lamb and Palmer, possibly Sumner and Phillips as well.

 

[El Topo]

H O P P E R

 

[F_therest]

Smith , Hopper and Kennedy
All from the Giants
Anyone for another package deal ?
Be worth it just for the opposition melts ...

Lol insert those 3 into our team and it really is outrageous how many ex GWS players we would have on our list.

I can see us being in 'pole' position at this stage...we have $$$ to throw around, an existing trading relationship with GWS, they possibly are mates with our ex GWS players and i reckon they would want to play for a coach like Bolton and can see we are an up and coming team.

Also we can basically guarantee them a best 22 spot, whereas at GWS they don't have that job security.

In terms of trading, i wonder if we'd be willing to give up a potentially really high draft pick like 2018 1st rounder, as part of a deal for all 3.
GWS want elite top end picks since their list is already so good. They paid overs to get pick #2 (Taranto) last year but they could afford to and would probably be happy to pay slight overs again.

 

[LordLucifer]

You don't have to agree, but it's pretty clear that's what we've done with Lamb and Palmer, possibly Sumner and Phillips as well.

We didn't take Lamb & Palmer because we genuinely wanted them and we can't keep filling up the list with steak knives either.

 

[RedFury]

I randomly found this definition for Scaffolding. I shouldn't be posting it here because it has nothing to do with what we are trying to do at Carlton. Nothing to do with Bolton being an educator. Nothing to do with Rowe, White, Thomas or any of these guys that so many just can't wait to see the back of. It just resonated with me:

In education, scaffolding refers to a variety of instructional techniques used to move students progressively toward stronger understanding and, ultimately, greater independence in the learning process. The term itself offers the relevant descriptive metaphor: teachers provide successive levels of temporary support that help students reach higher levels of comprehension and skill acquisition that they would not be able to achieve without assistance. Like physical scaffolding, the supportive strategies are incrementally removed when they are no longer needed, and the teacher gradually shifts more responsibility over the learning process to the student.

http://theorylovespractice.weebly.com/blog/looking-student-work-scaffolding

 

[Mr_Plow]

H O P P E R

We should try to get him.

Would be handy depth.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Not sure...

Joke, as in Goddard et al.

 

[Jeremias]

We didn't take Lamb & Palmer because we genuinely wanted them

That's my point...

I do not believe we expected Lamb or Palmer to be long-term contributors for us, but we took them and their contracts on board regardless to get a discount on the targets we really wanted.

It wouldn't surprise should we do the exact same thing at the end of this year. The targets remain somewhat obvious - Hopper & Kennedy in particular - but the contracts we may look to take on board to get the deals across the line aren't as obvious this time around.

 

[Azul]

We didn't take Lamb & Palmer because we genuinely wanted them and we can't keep filling up the list with steak knives either.

The idea is to incrementally improve the list so the 'depth' recruits are better than the recycled fodder they replace. e.g.

2016: Palmer, Smedts, A Silvagni > Tutt, Dick, Whiley.
2017: mature_recruit_a, mature_recruit_b > Jones, Thomas.

... while still bringing through the kids.