Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion

[Red Bull]

Mate if they match a contract offer, they get him on that contract. He doesn't go anywhere. That's restricted free agency.

What did you think 'matching' referred to???


We've got to spend this off-season. There's no way around that, and it'd be silly to absorb more than one contract, but that'd be from a GWS multideal again, if anything. It's silly not to expect us to go after Fyfe in a big way, and it's silly to think that anyone is thinking beyond end of 2018 in terms of the list build.

I'm not sure many staff have a contract for 2019.


Bullshit, I reckon they'd almost snap your hand off for that kind of deal. He might have only played 5-10 AFL games in two years despite being ready made. They can't possibly ask for what they paid for him if he hasn't really developed.


That shows you why clubs went hard last year:
FA - Vickery
Trade - Nankervis, Witts, Vardy
Draft - English, Darcy, Cameron, Abbott
Rookie draft - Draper, Filipovic, Ladhams, Marshall, McInerney, Strnadica, Lynch

Huge run on rucks, no idea why we didn't try and position ourselves a little better for this and get rid of one of Phillips or Gorringe with a late ND pick.

Fortunately, it means the gate is wide open for us this year and talent seen as ruck only is a good chance to slide. Hopefully we can find a way to use that to our advantage, otherwise it might be worth a look at Longer, who might want guarantees on senior footy after his spell at the Saints.


That's got to be Mills, then Oliver, then Parish, then Hopper, which is pretty much how it went down. All in the top 5 conversation though, and rightly so.

Bullshit you say ?
GWS would snap our hand off shaking on pick 16-18 for Hopper ?
Probably best you worry about what your own hands up to mate ...

 

[Keyza]

Pretty sure that if a club matches an offer for a RFA, the player can either choose to stay with his current club or enter the draft.

Correct. If a restricted free agent has any contract offer matched then the player can either stay at his original club or ask to be traded. By matching the offer is simply means that the original club can work out a trade if the player still wants to leave. If a trade cannot be reached then the player has the option to enter the draft.

 

[therubbernub]

I'm not surprised at all.
We are probably the team who's gone the hardest at a rebuild and drafting/trading in young kids over the last 2 years.

We've built up an envious group of talented youngsters in a very short space of time.

You still have to pick the right ones. Kudos to SOS. The Jury is in. Well done SOS (and BB and co for the development)

 

[Jimmae]

Bullshit you say ?
GWS would snap our hand off shaking on pick 16-18 for Hopper ?
Probably best you worry about what your own hands up to mate ...

He's not got Treloar's runs on the board and he's not a KPP wanting out like Boyd.

Adams is probably the closest comparison, and all that cost the Pies was a 28-year old Heath Shaw. From there, it's some pretty heady discounts because their side took shape and they can't really make huge demands for 2nd and 3rd string players, no matter their talent level.

Why? Because it sends a message to the rest of the playing group that they're unrealistic about the current nature of their list turnover as they establish themselves as a club. These kids are smart enough to know they're on an assembly line to help the club win premierships, either by being regularly in the 22 or boosting their age spread through bolstering their draft selections.

No club is going to give them full value, or they'd be top of the ladder for 20 years instead of 5 or 6.

 

[therubbernub]

We've got lucky, the deal itself was shit

Maybe, but I prefer to think that SOS+ the man not working officially had their eyes on some players that they thought in a deep draft were worth pursuing. Call it luck or good management- atm it looks like the later

 

[Jimmae]

Matt Kennedy in for Griffen this week; will be a good test for him and Hopper.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Not sure why people are so willing to part with Gibbs and Kreuzer.

They are both best 22 players having good years.

We are almost through the proper list churn stage. We need to get used to drafting deep, not trying to trade our way into stacked first round picks.

A lot of very good midfielders get picked up in the 30's and 40's. Filling that part of the list should be a bit easier then the spine

Possibly because they are the only players we have with any possible high value. Unless you are wanting Cripps and Weiters or SPS on the table. TBF if we got a first for Gibbs and good compo for Kruezer and put our 2018 on the table and we possibly landed Devon Smith, Jacob Hopper and Matthew Kennedy ( the ones Barrass says we are most interested in) and still took the best available with our first pick as well as a second first round pick for Gibbs, we are then miles ahead. That's five best 22 players for ten years as opposed to two for 4 - 5 years.

 

[Jimmae]

Possibly because they are the only players we have with any possible high value. Unless you are wanting Cripps and Weiters or SPS on the table. TBF if we got a first for Gibbs and good compo for Kruezer and put our 2018 on the table and we possibly landed Devon Smith, Jacob Hopper and Matthew Kennedy ( the ones Barrass says we are most interested in) and still took the best available with our first pick as well as a second first round pick for Gibbs, we are then miles ahead. That's five best 22 players for ten years as opposed to two for 4 - 5 years.

I don't think we'll be giving away any more players over 25 without a fight. They need to pony up for Gibbs and Kreuzer, whether it be picks or contract dollars.

 

[Blue and Silver]

Possibly because they are the only players we have with any possible high value. Unless you are wanting Cripps and Weiters or SPS on the table. TBF if we got a first for Gibbs and good compo for Kruezer and put our 2018 on the table and we possibly landed Devon Smith, Jacob Hopper and Matthew Kennedy ( the ones Barrass says we are most interested in) and still took the best available with our first pick as well as a second first round pick for Gibbs, we are then miles ahead. That's five best 22 players for ten years as opposed to two for 4 - 5 years.

Yeah so the whole premise of my post was not trying to stack up on first rounders.

Which is to say, don't blow the farm on one or two players.

We are after one of those midfield "jets" not all of them. GWS package deals aren't going to be happening every year.

What is probably happening is we are considering multiple players with the intent of landing one for a relatively big deal. This will probably cost us a first rounder. The question then is, would we trade Gibbs or lose Kreuzer just to take a punt on one of these players?

I would prefer we focus on drafting deep and keeping some consistency (we've turned over a lot of players at this point), targeting one gun in the trade period and not trying to get too crazy with losing our leaders.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

I don't think we'll be giving away any more players over 25 without a fight. They need to pony up for Gibbs and Kreuzer, whether it be picks or contract dollars.

Sure. agreed.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Yeah so the whole premise of my post was not trying to stack up on first rounders.

Which is to say, don't blow the farm on one or two players.

We are after one of those midfield "jets" not all of them. GWS package deals aren't going to be happening every year.

What is probably happening is we are considering multiple players with the intent of landing one for a relatively big deal. This will probably cost us a first rounder. The question then is, would we trade Gibbs or lose Kreuzer just to take a punt on one of these players?

I would prefer we focus on drafting deep and keeping some consistency (we've turned over a lot of players at this point), targeting one gun in the trade period and not trying to get too crazy with losing our leaders.

I agree they wont happen every year and I would suggest its quite possible for us to land two of the three names Barrass mentioned we are interested in from GWS. They still have a lot of AFL quality players running around in the NEAFL, and they will be feeling some salary cap pressure soon, if not this season. They will be bleeding some quality players still in the coming seasons.

 

[Stiffler's Dad]

Is anyone able to shed light on why Hopper is rated so highly? I saw his first game and he was very impressive but the other games of GWS that I have watched I hardly noticed him. What have I missed?

Tanking to become a Blue perhaps?

 

[Funk]

Love Kreuz, he will give us 100 more games and brings intensity and passion to make the midfield better. If we are going to improve over the next 5 years he needs to stay on the park and be our main ruck man.

However, if a stupidly big offer emerges that nets us a top 5 pick as a FA, then would SOS let him go and lower the group age further?

Yes he would.

 

[Stiffler's Dad]

Why waste a 4th rounder on Hammer? What's Warnock up to? Could get him for free, he owes us a few $.

I need a stiff drink after reading this, I'd filed Warnock away in the dark recesses of my mind.
I've got instant tremors.
I'm heading for my favorite rocking chair in the corner of a dimly lit room .
Mares tonight!

 

[Stiffler's Dad]

Only when you tell MrsLance.... Then it's a big problem

Hey Willis what you talkin' bout!
What I miss?

 

[pressurepoint]

Backs 26. Harrison Macreadie 17. Sam Rowe 20. Lachie Plowman
Half-backs 15. Sam Docherty 22. Caleb Marchbank 31. Tom Williamson
Centreline 35. Ed Curnow 9. Patrick Cripps 6. Kade Simpson
Half-forwards 39. Dale Thomas (LE BOIS/GALLUCCI/SUMNER/LAMB) 23. Jacob Weitering 5. Samo Petrevski-Seton
Forwards 46. Matthew Wright 8. Matthew Kreuzer 1. Jack Silvagni
Followers 41. Levi Casboult (PHILLIPS/MCKAY) 4. Bryce Gibbs 3. Marc Murphy (C)
Interchange 43. Simon White (POLSON/SHEEHAN/BYRNE) 25. Zac Fisher 30. Charlie Curnow 33. Jarrod Pickett



We're pretty close to the ideal 2017 side in terms of youth:experience.
Those in brackets to be tried throughout the year (matched to similar players in current 22 who are not in the mid to long term plan).

 

[BigFrizz36]

I need a stiff drink after reading this, I'd filed Warnock away in the dark recesses of my mind.
I've got instant tremors.
I'm heading for my favorite rocking chair in the corner of a dimly lit room .
Mares tonight!

unpopular opinion time. there was a brief (very brief) time where warnock looked the goods. took on and beat cox and nik nat in a semi final in perth whilst kreuz was injured. little did we know that it was all downhill fron there for both warnock and us.

 

[Salt Lake Cities]

Not sure why people are so willing to part with Gibbs and Kreuzer.

They are both best 22 players having good years.

We are almost through the proper list churn stage. We need to get used to drafting deep, not trying to trade our way into stacked first round picks.

A lot of very good midfielders get picked up in the 30's and 40's. Filling that part of the list should be a bit easier then the spine

Can only speak for myself but it's not out of want, it's being pragmatic.

Bryce might want to go home again. Kreuze might get one last big offer elsewhere. Basically we mightn't have a choice (I'd be reluctant to hold Gibbs against his wishes again).

More than happy for either to stay, especially the big fella.

 

[Blue and Silver]

Can only speak for myself but it's not out of want, it's being pragmatic.

Bryce might want to go home again. Kreuze might get one last big offer elsewhere. Basically we mightn't have a choice (I'd be reluctant to hold Gibbs against his wishes again).

More than happy for either to stay, especially the big fella.

That's a different story. But honestly, some people seem pretty keen on moving them on.

 

[Salt Lake Cities]

That's a different story. But honestly, some people seem pretty keen on moving them on.

True that. I've never wanted to lose Kreuze, love the guy. I'll admit to being happy to trade Bryce before but he's swayed me back again this season when I thought he might check out. He's done the exact opposite and all credit to him.

 

[Blue Doormat]

Can only speak for myself but it's not out of want, it's being pragmatic.

Bryce might want to go home again. Kreuze might get one last big offer elsewhere. Basically we mightn't have a choice (I'd be reluctant to hold Gibbs against his wishes again).

More than happy for either to stay, especially the big fella.

If these blokes want to stay at the end of the year then surely they stay.
If they want to go then in Gibbs' situation we have to stay strong to get the right deal. In Kruez's case if he wants to go (id imagine we'd be offering him a contract that's big enough that if someone wants him they have pony up enough to get us the right compo) we need to let him go too.

 

[Salt Lake Cities]

If these blokes want to stay at the end of the year then surely they stay.
If they want to go then in Gibbs' situation we have to stay strong to get the right deal. In Kruez's case if he wants to go (id imagine we'd be offering him a contract that's big enough that if someone wants him they have pony up enough to get us the right compo) we need to let him go too.

Yes all round. Loyalty and respect is a 2-way street. Hopefully a good outcome is found for all parties concerned.

 

[Azul]

While we're talking GWS discards, Buntine as a delisted free agent?

Just had an ACL... Sounds like a bit of a list clogger but has been in the right environment for 6 years,

 

[Red Bull]

While we're talking GWS discards, Buntine as a delisted free agent?

Just had an ACL... Sounds like a bit of a list clogger but has been in the right environment for 6 years,

Reckon our backline is pretty loaded now and we have Byrne returning soon enough .
I'm not against another salary dump player from the Giants whoever it may be if that helps land our reported targets at a discounted price again .
The strategy has worked well despite the genius Matthew Lloyds analysis, the salary dump players being able to be moved on soon enough but having Plowman , Marchbank and Pickett around for a decade .

 

[Blue Doormat]

Matthew Lloyd.

Nuf said
DERP