Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion

[agro]

Are they rebuilding? They keep bringing in older players such as Matthew Wright, Rhys Palmer, Billy Smedts and Dan Gorringe.

Are they trying to play winning football? Their team selection often suggests otherwise. Picking younger players who haven't earned their spot in the side through mediocre performances in the VFL over more in form players.

See how easy that was?

Gold Coast are having player retention issues because they failed to develop strong Leaders, thereby creating a very ordinary culture. Their early game plan was "Give it to Gary" and as a result they've failed to develop their younger mids properly.

Not far different from our "Give it to Juddy" game plan, and its consequent effect of lack of development and responsibility of our next generation of players and leaders.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Not far different from our "Give it to Juddy" game plan, and its consequent effect of lack of development and responsibility of our next generation of players and leaders.

Which is exactly why they'll end up letting Gary go to Geelong at the end of the year, probably for a pick and player combo (second rounder and average player or third rounder and good player).

I reckon it's starting to dawn on them that they too need to "reset" and the best way to do that will be to clear some senior blokes out and empower the club's younger leaders.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Which is exactly why they'll end up letting Gary go to Geelong at the end of the year, probably for a pick and player combo (second rounder and average player or third rounder and good player).

I reckon it's starting to dawn on them that they too need to "reset" and the best way to do that will be to clear some senior blokes out and empower the club's younger leaders.

I think they started that last year with four top 10 picks. And trading out of some injury riddled sick notes.

 

[Azul]

I think they started that last year with four top 10 picks. And trading out of some injury riddled sick notes.

Gold Coast have about 5 picks in the first two rounds of the 2017 too, thanks to Jaeger and Dion.

Maybe we should look at upgrading our third with one of them.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Gold Coast have about 5 picks in the first two rounds of the 2017 too, thanks to Jaeger and Dion.

Maybe we should look at upgrading our third with one of them.

Buckley/Graham/Boekhorst/White and a third rounder for a second rounder might well appeal to them if they want to bring in some older bodies, they do have four second rounders at present.

 

[drewmont4]

Trade and Free Agency period is coming faster then we think who should we look to bring in

I think we should give guys like this a crack

Dylan Shiel GWS
Matthew Kennedy GWS
Nakia Cockatoo Geelong
Paddy Mccartin St Kilda
Joshua Schache Brisbane
Adam Tomlinson GWS
Zac Jones Sydney
Ben Lennon Richmond

 

[HARKER]

Jacob Hopper.
Devon Smith..........if he can be mixed into the Hopper deal.

That's all I care about right now. May be some fringe players here or there, but can't be too thrilled for them, as has proved to be the case in recent years.

 

[Cripps17]

More a fan of Kennedy than Smith. He'd be a great get.

 

[Jeremias]

Dylan Shiel GWS

Re-signed so I wouldn't bother until he's eligible for free agency.

Matthew Kennedy GWS

Absolutely yes.

Nakia Cockatoo Geelong

We tried to go down that path last year. I don't see him leaving Geelong any time soon.

Paddy Mccartin St Kilda

No thanks. Red flags everywhere on that one.

Joshua Schache Brisbane

Yes, depending on price.

Adam Tomlinson GWS

No thanks. That ship has sailed and I see no reason to reignite our interest now.

Zac Jones Sydney

Absolutely yes.

Ben Lennon Richmond

Still yet to do anything that makes me think he has a future at AFL level. No thanks.

 

[drewmont4]

who should we go for guys

 

[HARKER]

More a fan of Kennedy than Smith. He'd be a great get.

Really? You're probably right as I haven't seen enough of Kennedy but Smith adds quality mid-field depth as well as goal-kicking ability.

Just think that with Hopper we may be overdoing things in the one hit taking on Kennedy also..........won't happen, but just for the discussion.

 

[HARKER]

who should we go for guys

8000+ posts here already. Enjoy your reading.

 

[drewmont4]

i think we need to bring in mckay and trade cas out tbh

 

[Cripps17]

May be some fringe players here or there, but can't be too thrilled for them, as has proved to be the case in recent years.

Not sure the benefit of this anymore, when guys like Kerridge, Lamb, Palmer etc. can't get a game. Maybe a ruck as backup is about it.

 

[Blue__Balls]

who should we go for guys

Go back to page 315 or so and start reading

If you want a shortlist: Jacob Hopper, Matt Kennedy, Zak Jones, Charlie Cameron, Jake Lever are the immediate ones. Tom Lynch, Dylan Shiel the soon-to-be-free-agents that we'll be watching in the next year or two.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Jacob Hopper.
Devon Smith..........if he can be mixed into the Hopper deal.

That's all I care about right now. May be some fringe players here or there, but can't be too thrilled for them, as has proved to be the case in recent years.

I think Kennedy, the Matthew version, is more suitable for us at this point than Devon Smith. We saw a snippet the other day of the potential in Kennedy in his game against WC. Was excellent.

 

[zeeCFC]

Jacob Hopper.
Devon Smith..........if he can be mixed into the Hopper deal.

That's all I care about right now. May be some fringe players here or there, but can't be too thrilled for them, as has proved to be the case in recent years.

Is this assuming the FA rules change? Not sure we'd have enough trade currency or willingness to sit the draft out in order to get both.

Hopper, contractless and asking to come to us would still need a pick at least in the early teens IMO.

 

[Soapy V]

Class mids is what we need. Hopper Kennedy & Jones would be my targets and then a number of good draft picks. At least 6

 

[HARKER]

Not sure the benefit of this anymore, when guys like Kerridge, Lamb, Palmer etc. can't get a game. Maybe a ruck as backup is about it.

Nothing wrong with what we did/had to do in the past two years.......but no more.
No more Gorringe.....nor Palmer....nor Smedts.....etc.

We're close to having a platform that doesn't force us into 'lucky dipping'
We're not there quite yet, but could be closer than we may have thought to be, by years end.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Go back to page 315 or so and start reading

If you want a shortlist: Jacob Hopper, Matt Kennedy, Zak Jones, Charlie Cameron, Jake Lever are the immediate ones. Tom Lynch, Dylan Shiel the soon-to-be-free-agents that we'll be watching in the next year or two.

Would be more than happy with these three added to our list at the end of the trade period. With a likely pick 2/3 in the draft as well.

 

[HARKER]

I think Kennedy, the Matthew version, is more suitable for us at this point than Devon Smith. We saw a snippet the other day of the potential in Kennedy in his game against WC. Was excellent.

I can see a situation where GWS may look at a first rounder for the Hopper/Smith combo, but maybe not so much for Hopper/Kennedy.
I have nothing to back that up, other than Kennedy may be harder to extricate, being an Academy player.........maybe.

 

[My name geoff]

What? Mate, have you been listening to the President, Trigg, the Coach etc?

Resetting the list. Road map. Journey. Green shoots.

The plan is to RESET the list (following on from 7 years of bad drafting and blown drafts). The plan was to start from ground zero, starting from the 2015 draft, and using the 3 years that followed to assemble the core of a team that could carry us to the finals in 2020 and beyond.

We are not yet even halfway through that 3 year period.

The core of the work wont be done until we finish the 2018 draft, and even then we will need another year or two of development and free agency to get the list right.



We dont have the fortune of having a list comprised of the best players from dozens of picks from 5-6 drafts, and including two gun young KPF including one who was nearly a Coleman medalist at 21.

Are you seriously saying Curnow, Cuningham, SPS, Silvagni, Williamson, McKay are in the same league as Kelly, Cameron, Patton, Shiel, Coniglio?

They're not even close; we need another 2-3 big draft hauls to get in the talent we need to match that GWS team, and even then we need to nail our picks.



Yeah; and 23 (and around 50-100 games) is around the age that players mature. This happens at around 2020 for us.



We wont be playing finals next year. We will be bottom three. Again. We are still in the three year reset next year.

This draft period, Gibbs will leave. Possibly one of Casboult or Kruezer as well. We will focus on the draft (more teenagers) and in getting in players that are 23 years old or younger who will be able to contribute in 2020 and onwards after we finish resetting the club.

Next year is another development year. Year three of the reset. Thats all it is. Get used to it.

Let me again reiterate: Road map. Green shoots. Journey.



I was hearing how we would be a finals side this year also. Looks like we're going to finish either last or second last.

On the back of this 18th-17th finish, Gibbs is all but gone, Simpson (still our most reliable player, one of our most valuable and in our bests every week) is probably going to retire, and we are likely going to lose either Casboult (our CHF and the only bloke capable of taking a mark up forward) or Kruezer (our ruckman) to free agency.

Next year (2018) we will (again) finish bottom 3. We will (again) hit the draft and get in a bunch of teenagers, and almost certainly hunt (and hopefully land) a big ticket free agent. After this draft/ trade period, the 'reset' is officially over.

In 2019 (first year post 'reset') we will start to rise up the ladder as the kids start getting to that 50-100 game mark, and off the back of the big ticket free agent drafted the previous year. We likely finish 11th (maybe even score ourselves a wildcard game if the AFL introduce this). We again hit the draft, and we again try and lure a big ticket free agent to fill any remaining list deficiencies (or trade in a player who wants to come to an emerging 'big' Victorian club).

In 2020 we are in finals contention, finishing in the top 8 (hopefully top 4). From there onwards, its game on. The list is aged 20-26 across the board, have been playing together for years, have 100 games under the belt, a rock solid, talented, and experienced defence who learnt their craft under a baptism of fire. We are now set for a 5 year period of dominance.

Also at this point our list management strategy changes, but lets worry about that when we get there.



If you havent noticed we have (by far and away) the most impotent forward line in the AFL by a considerable margin, and an aeging midfield, followed by a bunch of kids. If it wasnt for a highly defensive game plan by Bolton relying on controlling the tempo, a gun backline with an AA in Docherty, the evergreen gun Simpson, and a number of good tall young kids and a damn fine rookie pick up in ASOS, we would be getting smashed weekly.

There is a reason we are 17th on the ladder, with the lowest points for in the AFL by a mile (for the 3rd year running) you know?



We will finish bottom 5 next year. Probably bottom 3.

Green shoots. Road Map. Journey.

If we finish bottom 3 next year I will delete my account.

Its pretty naïve if you cant see the club is rightfully playing down expectations intentionally.

You are also kidding yourself if the club and coach Brendan 'we are a club in a hurry' Bolton are putting a celling on what we can achieve. No one is saying we will peak in 2018, but the club will definitely be aiming for finals, I just wont be holding my breath waiting for them to announce it like Malifice will be.

As far as our offence goes, along with the rest of the side, it is improvingWe have scored over 95 points twice this year, we only achieved that 3 times for the whole year last year

What? Mate, have you been listening to the President, Trigg, the Coach etc?

Resetting the list. Road map. Journey. Green shoots.

The plan is to RESET the list (following on from 7 years of bad drafting and blown drafts). The plan was to start from ground zero, starting from the 2015 draft, and using the 3 years that followed to assemble the core of a team that could carry us to the finals in 2020 and beyond.

We are not yet even halfway through that 3 year period.

The core of the work wont be done until we finish the 2018 draft, and even then we will need another year or two of development and free agency to get the list right.



We dont have the fortune of having a list comprised of the best players from dozens of picks from 5-6 drafts, and including two gun young KPF including one who was nearly a Coleman medalist at 21.

Are you seriously saying Curnow, Cuningham, SPS, Silvagni, Williamson, McKay are in the same league as Kelly, Cameron, Patton, Shiel, Coniglio?

They're not even close; we need another 2-3 big draft hauls to get in the talent we need to match that GWS team, and even then we need to nail our picks.



Yeah; and 23 (and around 50-100 games) is around the age that players mature. This happens at around 2020 for us.



We wont be playing finals next year. We will be bottom three. Again. We are still in the three year reset next year.

This draft period, Gibbs will leave. Possibly one of Casboult or Kruezer as well. We will focus on the draft (more teenagers) and in getting in players that are 23 years old or younger who will be able to contribute in 2020 and onwards after we finish resetting the club.

Next year is another development year. Year three of the reset. Thats all it is. Get used to it.

Let me again reiterate: Road map. Green shoots. Journey.



I was hearing how we would be a finals side this year also. Looks like we're going to finish either last or second last.

On the back of this 18th-17th finish, Gibbs is all but gone, Simpson (still our most reliable player, one of our most valuable and in our bests every week) is probably going to retire, and we are likely going to lose either Casboult (our CHF and the only bloke capable of taking a mark up forward) or Kruezer (our ruckman) to free agency.

Next year (2018) we will (again) finish bottom 3. We will (again) hit the draft and get in a bunch of teenagers, and almost certainly hunt (and hopefully land) a big ticket free agent. After this draft/ trade period, the 'reset' is officially over.

In 2019 (first year post 'reset') we will start to rise up the ladder as the kids start getting to that 50-100 game mark, and off the back of the big ticket free agent drafted the previous year. We likely finish 11th (maybe even score ourselves a wildcard game if the AFL introduce this). We again hit the draft, and we again try and lure a big ticket free agent to fill any remaining list deficiencies (or trade in a player who wants to come to an emerging 'big' Victorian club).

In 2020 we are in finals contention, finishing in the top 8 (hopefully top 4). From there onwards, its game on. The list is aged 20-26 across the board, have been playing together for years, have 100 games under the belt, a rock solid, talented, and experienced defence who learnt their craft under a baptism of fire. We are now set for a 5 year period of dominance.

Also at this point our list management strategy changes, but lets worry about that when we get there.



If you havent noticed we have (by far and away) the most impotent forward line in the AFL by a considerable margin, and an aeging midfield, followed by a bunch of kids. If it wasnt for a highly defensive game plan by Bolton relying on controlling the tempo, a gun backline with an AA in Docherty, the evergreen gun Simpson, and a number of good tall young kids and a damn fine rookie pick up in ASOS, we would be getting smashed weekly.

There is a reason we are 17th on the ladder, with the lowest points for in the AFL by a mile (for the 3rd year running) you know?



We will finish bottom 5 next year. Probably bottom 3.

Green shoots. Road Map. Journey.

Yep you're right, the club is not trying to lower expectations to relive pressure at all

 

[drewmont4]

kieran collins WBD to replace sam rowe and simon white

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

If we finish bottom 3 next year I will delete my account.

Its pretty naïve if you cant see the club is rightfully playing down expectations intentionally.

You are also kidding yourself if the club and coach Brendan 'we are a club in a hurry' Bolton are putting a celling on what we can achieve. No one is saying we will peak in 2018, but the club will definitely be aiming for finals, I just wont be holding my breath waiting for them to announce it like Malifice will be.

As far as our offence goes, along with the rest of the side, it is improvingWe have scored over 95 points twice this year, we only achieved that 3 times for the whole year last year


Yep you're right, the club is not trying to lower expectations to relive pressure at all

View attachment 376404 View attachment 376405 View attachment 376407 View attachment 376410 View attachment 376411 View attachment 376412View attachment 376417

No idea what your argument is, stats on are page like this are next to worthless and without any context. Are you suggesting we will play finals next year based on these stats?

 

[HARKER]

kieran collins WBD to replace sam rowe and simon white

Forget Collins. Why would you even bring his name up?

About as far away from a back-man SOS would want at the club.