2017 Trade and FA thread

[Fatcat08]

Though I can see your point of veiw. Your argument is based on the entire trade and draft overall and its outcomes, again accuratley stated, however the bastinac deal in isolation is the essence of his view I believe and though I would love to believe the lions new exactly where our academy boys would fall on the night I don't think you can add it to the argument of if we over paid or not IF you look at the deal in isolation . However we have history to look upon now to refute any arguments to contrary. So I am inclined to agree with you

I can see what you're meaning. Had we been having this conversation directly after trade week and before the draft i'd probably be a little harsher on it as well. However we're talking about it now, with the benefit of a full suite of information so it only makes sense to include it. While they may not have known exactly when the bids would come we would have had a fair idea, from Hipwood as well as other sources. At least one of hipwood or keays was pretty much projected to be top 10-15 pretty much all year so we would have had a reasonable knowledge. Still I will admit it was a bit of a gamble at the time.

 

[John_Proctor]

To add to my post.

The Bell trade complicates things. As we did Bell and 41 for 21 and 61.

If we hadn't traded for either Bell or Bastinac we would have had picks 17, 21, 26, 39, 61 going into the draft.

17 would have matched Hippy and we would have got pick 52 with spare points.

Pick 21 (which carlton on traded to the Western Bulldogs) ended up Pick 26 with academy shenanigans so would have been used to match for Keays with pick 60 back with spare points.

We then would have had 'Pick 26' (which ended up 31 in the draft) to use on whoever we wanted. (it was used on Ryan Clarke by North Melbourne, other slightly later picks include Harley Balic at Freo, Marcus Adams at Bulldogs)

we still use the Leuie compo pick (39) on Mathieson. and we have picks 52 and 60 one of which probably still gets us Skinner and hte other some guy you've never heard of (eg. Tom Phillips at Collingwod)

so combining the trades. It could theoretically be. out Bastinac/Bell and "Corey Lyons" in. Ryan Clarke and Tom Phillips (picks 31 and 60). probably about even. But in reality it shows that we went from getting Bastinac effectively free to giving up actual coin for Bell.

Obviously all hypothetical and those trades not happening would open up a world of different trades (and choices at the draft) for all teams involved which could have completely changed the draft/list etc.

For example Carlton traded there 20 and our 21 for Pick 11 and a 2016 3rd rounder from the Bulldogs. Maybe we could have traded 21 and 26 for Pick 11. which Carlton used on Charlie Curnow. (or Daniel Rioli who Richmond picked at 15 after bidding on Kennedy and Hipwood).

 

[M Malice]

 

[Fitzroy bears]

I can see what you're meaning. Had we been having this conversation directly after trade week and before the draft i'd probably be a little harsher on it as well. However we're talking about it now, with the benefit of a full suite of information so it only makes sense to include it. While they may not have known exactly when the bids would come we would have had a fair idea, from Hipwood as well as other sources. At least one of hipwood or keays was pretty much projected to be top 10-15 pretty much all year so we would have had a reasonable knowledge. Still I will admit it was a bit of a gamble at the time.

Fair call. I know this will bite me in the *** anyway, cause bastinac will have a stella second half of the year and will render this entire conversation redundant.

 

[CarterS]

To add to my post.

The Bell trade complicates things. As we did Bell and 41 for 21 and 61.

If we hadn't traded for either Bell or Bastinac we would have had picks 17, 21, 26, 39, 61 going into the draft.

17 would have matched Hippy and we would have got pick 52 with spare points.

Pick 21 (which carlton on traded to the Western Bulldogs) ended up Pick 26 with academy shenanigans so would have been used to match for Keays with pick 60 back with spare points.

We then would have had 'Pick 26' (which ended up 31 in the draft) to use on whoever we wanted. (it was used on Ryan Clarke by North Melbourne, other slightly later picks include Harley Balic at Freo, Marcus Adams at Bulldogs)

we still use the Leuie compo pick (39) on Mathieson. and we have picks 52 and 60 one of which probably still gets us Skinner and hte other some guy you've never heard of (eg. Tom Phillips at Collingwod)

so combining the trades. It could theoretically be. out Bastinac/Bell and "Corey Lyons" in. Ryan Clarke and Tom Phillips (picks 31 and 60). probably about even. But in reality it shows that we went from getting Bastinac effectively free to giving up actual coin for Bell.

Obviously all hypothetical and those trades not happening would open up a world of different trades (and choices at the draft) for all teams involved which could have completely changed the draft/list etc.

For example Carlton traded there 20 and our 21 for Pick 11 and a 2016 3rd rounder from the Bulldogs. Maybe we could have traded 21 and 26 for Pick 11. which Carlton used on Charlie Curnow. (or Daniel Rioli who Richmond picked at 15 after bidding on Kennedy and Hipwood).

Huh

 

[Fatcat08]

Fair call. I know this will bite me in the *** anyway, cause bastinac will have a stella second half of the year and will render this entire conversation redundant.

I certainly hope he does because when he's playing well he's got something to add to our side

 

[Football Pope]

Justin retired

And there it is.....no wonder the AFL struggles up north ...AFL thread and a retired NRL player gets a mention...

 

[scoman]

And there it is.....no wonder the AFL struggles up north ...AFL thread and a retired NRL player gets a mention...

Indeed. Funnily enough it was my first thought.

 

[Balony_pony16]

Im hopeful we move Rich on at the end of the season. Try get a pick inside the top 30. He just isnt working out and will appeal to a finals team. It would be nice to see him get some success as well

 

[harvester]

Gibson is cooked. Burgoyne I'd be all for though.

Dont want either to be honest. I dont believe they are leadership quality. We desparately need a mature player with a good attitude, and coming from a club who expects to win when there is a sniff of victory. Our team is isn't as bad as some may think. We just need someone like a roger merrett to come in and own it

On SM-T355Y using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[acuguy]

I think we should look at throwing some cash at one of the following Bailey Dale, Lukas Webb, Matt Buntine, Nick Haynes, Nick Newman, we need some real run and skill coming off half back. I am aware that Buntine and Haynes are probably out for the rest of the season. We have Witherdon coming through but we need some more class users of the footy ASAP

 

[M Malice]

Luke Hodge or Shaun Burgoyne would be good if they are interested in a coaching career post footy in a Sam Mitchell type deal. ie. 1 year playing coach (playing roughly 15-18 games depending how the body is) followed by a 2 year assistant coaching gig. The connection with Fagan should be an advantage.

Other than that I would be going to the draft unless we can get a B+ to elite player in the 21-24 age bracket eg. Jacob Hopper.

Do not want any more rejects that other clubs simply don't want eg. Tom Bell.

 

[briztoon]

Im hopeful we move Rich on at the end of the season. Try get a pick inside the top 30. He just isnt working out and will appeal to a finals team. It would be nice to see him get some success as well

Rich and Hanley were the two I mentioned at the beginning of last year as the two I'd move on. But as a couple of people have pointed out, Rich's contract is prohibitive and makes it unlikely we'll be able to move him on. I do not know how much Rich is on, but he's signed through to 2020.

 

[Leuy LongerCombo]

Rich and Hanley were the two I mentioned at the beginning of last year as the two I'd move on. But as a couple of people have pointed out, Rich's contract is prohibitive and makes it unlikely we'll be able to move him on. I do not know how much Rich is on, but he's signed through to 2020.

Reported as a 5year/$3 million deal signed til 2021.

 

[Football Pope]

Luke Hodge or Shaun Burgoyne would be good if they are interested in a coaching career post footy in a Sam Mitchell type deal. ie. 1 year playing coach (playing roughly 15-18 games depending how the body is) followed by a 2 year assistant coaching gig. The connection with Fagan should be an advantage.

Other than that I would be going to the draft unless we can get a B+ to elite player in the 21-14 age bracket eg. Jacob Hopper.

Do not want any more rejects that other clubs simply don't want eg. Tom Bell.

There is some talent in the local under 14's...

 

[M Malice]

There is some talent in the local under 14's...

Well done Francis, thanks, has been edited.

My only excuse is age.

 

[acuguy]

We can't afford to move on our older players.

 

[briztoon]

We can't afford to move on our older players.

Do you believe next season we could cope without Rich?

 

[lions2010]

Do you believe next season we could cope without Rich?

I dont know why the Lions would always want to trade players. Rich is a good player and will be even better in a better performing side.

I am sick of being the youngest team, always with 19 years olds with not enough experience that get smashed every week.

Our midfield is a huge problem, so trading out any depth or midfielders at this time will be a bad move.

 

[jackess]

I'd only trade Rich for a top 15 pick or a someone under 23 who could slot into our best 22. Both are unlikely.

A pick in the 20s would be a raffle and I think there's less chance than them having a greater impact than Rich has and will have for us.

 

[Nunez]

I think we look at trading the likes of Rich/Rockliff (bar issues of last year) etc as ways of fixing our current mediocrity. Fact is, you need good, reliable players to help usher along the young talent we have and will have. If we're missing them we end up Melbourne 2.0 from years back.

For mine, we look at keeping the core of:

Beams
Rockliff
Rich
Robinson
Zorko

The rest of the older players bar Martin (who I didn't include given his age. Would trade if a good offer came in) are tradeable. We need to keep drafting first round guns and have the above mentioned usher the youth into AFL so when they're the 30 year olds the guys like Hipwood, Andrews, Keays, McCLuggage, Berry, Taylor etc etc are in their prime or about to enter their prime. Under them will be other first round drafties.

The light is well and truly at the end of the tunnel here. I feel quite confident in that.

 

[M Malice]

You highlighted the problem Nunez , besides the players you mentioned above our older/experienced (25+) players are in the main spuds/list cloggers. ie. Frost, C.Beams, Harwood, Bastinac, Bell, Bewick and Eagles, the only other one is Christensen, I would add him to your list, he is a keeper IMO.

 

[Nunez]

You highlighted the problem Nunez , besides the players you mentioned above our older/experienced (25+) players are in the main spuds/list cloggers. ie. Frost, C.Beams, Harwood, Bastinac, Bell, Bewick and Eagles, the only other one is Christensen, I would add him to your list, he is a keeper IMO.

Poor Bundy, definitely pop him on the list. Slipped my mind as I haven't seen him play for some time and forgot about him. While yes the above are list cloggers for the most part, having some depth players isn't all that bad. We know exactly who we need to get rid of and we surely will unless we rate their depth coverage short term. It is an easy fix.

 

[M Malice]

Poor Bundy, definitely pop him on the list. Slipped my mind as I haven't seen him play for some time and forgot about him. While yes the above are list cloggers for the most part, having some depth players isn't all that bad. We know exactly who we need to get rid of and we surely will unless we rate their depth coverage short term. It is an easy fix.

On reflection I wouldn't be totally against offering up Rich (highly unlikely, has a long contract) for trade, D.Beams, Rockliff, Robinson, Zorko and Christensen have all displayed great leadership qualities so we definitely need to keep them. From my perspective Rich does not provide that so much, he is not in the leadership group and IIRC has never been and never seems to be discussed re leadership.

 

[jackess]

On reflection I wouldn't be totally against offering up Rich (highly unlikely, has a long contract) for trade, D.Beams, Rockliff, Robinson, Zorko and Christensen have all displayed great leadership qualities so we definitely need to keep them. From my perspective Rich does not provide that so much, he is not in the leadership group and IIRC has never been and never seems to be discussed re leadership.

I'm pretty certain he's been in the leadership group.