2017 Trade and FA thread

[The Bear]

I'm pretty relaxed about the trades now, too and glad the whole Schache soap is over.

Given the circumstances, I think the team did ok. First game at the GABBA in 2018, I'll be celebrating/cheering on our new recruits. Hodgey, Charlie-boy, Mr Kotter, Paddy and the others we pick up.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Serious question. In completing a trade are you able to ask for assurance that the other club won't bid on your f/s or academy prospect?

eg. the Adelaide and Richmond trades could they include a (non-enforceable) deal the clubs don't bid on Ballenden.

or is that draft tampering and not allowed even though it wouldn't be enforceable anyway.

There's no formal mechanism but definitely could be done informally.

I suspect we did a winking arrangement with the Crows, Tigers and Dogs.

 

[John_Proctor]

^^ so that means.

12 Adelaide - handshake
13 West Coast - unlikely
14 - Sydney (Academy brotherhood won't bid)
15 - Us
16 - Dogs - handshake
17 - Tigers - handshake
18 - us - safe for bids from here using 40+44

 

[The Bear]

^^ so that means.

12 Adelaide - handshake
13 West Coast - unlikely
14 - Sydney (Academy brotherhood won't bid)
15 - Us
16 - Dogs - handshake
17 - Tigers - handshake
18 - us - safe for bids from here using 40+44

That's the plan.

 

[neg99]

90% sure with our plans we only need to delist 1 player. If we go in with 5 spots and consume 2 on the Ballenden bid we get an extra pick at the end of the draft based on the other available list spot. We can use that to re-draft the delisted player or to match a late bid on Payne (after pick 56 I believe). We don’t need the pick 52 or whatever it is unless Payne gets bid between 52 and 56. Assuming we’re expecting Ballenden’s bid to be after pick 18 we could also get change from the combo of 40/44. If it’s pick 19 there’s no change (it’ll go to the back of the draft), pick 20 is a pick ~70, pick 21 bid is ~67, 20 is ~59 etc.

Long story short we don’t need pick 52 anyway so don’t need to delist both Close and Beams.

FWIW - I was bitterly disappointed with the Cameron trade. Less than impressed with the Schache one but felt we redeemed ourselves somewhat with the Richmond trade up (understand the angst but those picks were useless given Ballenden anyway). Overall grade from me is a C-/D+ but also don’t like judging until we’re through the full offseason.

On the bright side reckon Conole has been a master at picking value over his time here so fingers crossed on this draft!


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[luthor]

There's no formal mechanism but definitely could be done informally.

I suspect we did a winking arrangement with the Crows, Tigers and Dogs.

A "gentleman's" agreement

Between scoundrels

 

[Flea_29]

We were given a 7.5 / 10 on the AFL website (Nick Bowen, Nathan Schmook and Dinny Navaratnam).

Summary
9 ESS, FREM, PORT
7.5 ADEL, LIONS, MELB
7 GEEL, RICH, SYD, WCE
6.5 GC, GWS, WB
6 CARL, HAW
5.5 STK
5 COLL, NTH

Agree with the top 3.
Not sure how Carl only get a 6 (In Kennedy & pick 10, Out Gibbs).

When you consider that Wallace gave us an A-, this verdict puts things in perspective that we did do well during this trade period. By trading for Hodge, it means that we have pick 1 in the PSD still up our sleeve.

 

[The Bear]

If Ballenden is not bid on by pick 18, then overall, the offseason has been very successful I reckon!

 

[marooned]

Our aim was always to draft 3 top 20 players this year to complement the 4 top 25 picks we drafted last year. The aim would have been to draft another 3 top 20/25 next year - so on that count we 'failed' during this trade period.
When you look at it on 'who will help us next year', Using picks 1, 15 & 18 will give us 3 top 20 picks to complement the 4 last year. Cameron will add immediate impact and is on the verge of becoming an A-Grader. Hodge will add experience.
As for Schache, there was every chance that he would not play any footy next year and does not fit into Fagan's game plan.

Overall, I think we did quite well. I honestly believe that Cameron was the pick of the trade period - we basically traded Hanley for Cameron.

Trading for 3 picks in top 25 next year yes that was the plan but I would be happy with 2 if we actually spend some coin to bring in another talent early to mid 20's to top us up.

 

[MacMum]

What about Dow? What chances there?.....in light of our boys Berry and McCluggage saying they wanted him up there too.

 

[JasRulz63]

When they asked Stephen Wells who he thought did the best during the trade week, he said he hadn't really thought it through but mentioned Brisbane then Gold Coast. Was probably just throwing out names of teams that first came to mind but still interesting.

 

[POBT]

Seems to be a few "experts" grading our trade period as at least a pass mark. I find that interesting given most Lions supporters think it ranges from a slight fail to an absolute disaster.

 

[3KZ is Football]

I have had a cup of tea and a good long think about it and I believe that Noble and Fagan have completely outfoxed the Western Bulldogs. We have collected Picks 25 and 40, while the Western Bulldogs get one of our Reserves players. Genius! I cant wait to see who we turn selections 25 and 40 into during the draft. There is no way know a Ressies player like Schache is worth two players.

Well done Noble and Fagan.

 

[mish33]

We got 18 for rocky didn't we? That means we need to add a another player to that equation.

Pick 18 has moved around a fair bit, but think of it as just our second rounder for simplicity. We actually got a two pick upgrade on that pick out of the all the deals, but who's counting.

 

[jonnobackpocket]

Wonder if the club even considered the precedent this sets. When contract time comes the other young Vic blokes would be thinking I will sign it to keep them off my back, knowing it's not worth a pinch if shit. If they want to go home all they have to do is ask and we will grant their wishes. God dam we will even take unders to get them there. I honestly cannot fathom the Schache trade it's beyond belief.

 

[Gibbo_88]

Seems to be a few "experts" grading our trade period as at least a pass mark. I find that interesting given most Lions supporters think it ranges from a slight fail to an absolute disaster.

Perhaps those that know more info about Schache think we did well with the circumstances whereas the rest of us look at it closer to pick 2 is worth significantly less 2 years later.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

Seems to be a few "experts" grading our trade period as at least a pass mark. I find that interesting given most Lions supporters think it ranges from a slight fail to an absolute disaster.

I suppose as most of the experts are Victorian that's not surprising. Their view of fair value and our's were pretty much at odds throughout.

 

[MacMum]

Wonder if the club even considered the precedent this sets. When contract time comes the other young Vic blokes would be thinking I will sign it to keep them off my back, knowing it's not worth a pinch if shit. If they want to go home all they have to do is ask and we will grant their wishes. God dam we will even take unders to get them there. I honestly cannot fathom the Schache trade it's beyond belief.

We can only hope they are made of sterner stuff...

..and for any future draftees, that they played footy together somewhere in junior days, went to school together and lived in the same house!

 

[acuguy]

Interesting thoughts in this thread. Rockliff moving on has opened up significant cap space we will require for our young guns coming out of contract. Those bemoaning the Cameron trade need to remember that our club needs to get competitive immediately. Zorko, Cameron, Taylor, Christensen and Robinson rotating in and out of the forward line and through the midfield gives us electric pace and defensive pressure.

 

[TheZork]

After cooling down completely we actually did alright. Not badly, but not great.

Schache = 25 + 40 = pick 13.5 (which we all would've taken)
Cameron = 12 (probably a bit high)

But as long as Ballenden isn't bid on before 18 our ins/out for the trade period will be

In: Ballenden, Cameron, Hodge, 15, 18
Out: Schache, 12, 75, 20, Rockliff

That looks pretty good to me.

 

[cubansombrero]

Wonder if the club even considered the precedent this sets. When contract time comes the other young Vic blokes would be thinking I will sign it to keep them off my back, knowing it's not worth a pinch if shit. If they want to go home all they have to do is ask and we will grant their wishes. God dam we will even take unders to get them there. I honestly cannot fathom the Schache trade it's beyond belief.

I don't think that's necessarily true. Trading Schache was a compassionate move for the kid's own mental health, and it seems like Schache was well-known around the club as an introverted kid who didn't necessarily 'fit in' to the culture (even if he was doing all the work required at training etc). I think young guys like Berry, McCluggage and Witherden will get more out of playing alongside someone who pumps them up and encourages them to compete for their spot in the team than someone who brings down the mood (even if it's not his fault), plus we can use the cap space from Schache (and Rockliff) to compensate them well when they come out of contract.

 

[braddsey]

Perhaps those that know more info about Schache think we did well with the circumstances whereas the rest of us look at it closer to pick 2 is worth significantly less 2 years later.

I think it's certainly a case of cutting our losses and moving on. We can't undo picking Schache as pick-2 years ago, but at the same time we couldn't have foreseen how it would turn out. We can prevent the situation dragging on the club for another 12 months.

We have a massive good news story with Hodge coming in, we don't need the negative press from the further ongoing Schache situation... and may get some kudos for looking after the best interests of the kid.

...I dread to think what we'll be dealing with if McLuggage or Witherden haven't resigned by the bye next season.

 

[jonnobackpocket]

We can only hope they are made of sterner stuff...

..and for any future draftees, that they played footy together somewhere in junior days, went to school together and lived in the same house!

Strength of character will become our number 1 asset ahead of football ability. Yeah fair to say that might narrow the field a bit ha.

 

[Hollow Knight]

I know when considering prospective employers I look for those who intimidate and rule by threats and fear over those who are compassionate and understanding of their employers being people.

 

[Scubaveg]

The people slamming Schache are going to feel so silly in 8 years when he makes his LeBron James style return to finish what he started.

I’ll bet both my nuts that will never happen.


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