2017 trade/draft thread

[Xsess]

Man this thread is depressing, all this talk of us picking up fringe players from other clubs. None of these will improve us. Bottom line is we have 8 or 10 players in proximity to our 22 who are at best borderline AFL players. So every week we roll the dice on 4 or more of them into the team and most weeks they play like shit. So at selection we go back to the well and recycle the same shit through the team for the same result.

The only way we improve is by adding to the 12-15 genuine AFL players we have who can impact games in a positive way. That is via the draft. I dunno when it was that we went away from our tried and tested model for all of our previous history of taking prudent selections at the draft and then developing. Used to annoy me at the time that were weren't active in trades, but man we were like a development factory. Its only really the last 5-6 years we keep doing this shit of blowing good draft picks for fringe players. I'd rather take punts on young kids or even top end WAFL players who are unknown at AFL level than blokes who have been in the system for years and yet are only fringe players.

 

[Obeanie1]

Man this thread is depressing, all this talk of us picking up fringe players from other clubs. None of these will improve us. Bottom line is we have 8 or 10 players in proximity to our 22 who are at best borderline AFL players. So every week we roll the dice on 4 or more of them into the team and most weeks they play like shit. So at selection we go back to the well and recycle the same shit through the team for the same result.

The only way we improve is by adding to the 12-15 genuine AFL players we have who can impact games in a positive way. That is via the draft. I dunno when it was that we went away from our tried and tested model for all of our previous history of taking prudent selections at the draft and then developing them. Its only really the last 5-6 years we keep doing this shit of blowing good draft picks for fringe players. I'd rather take punts on young kids or even top end WAFL players who are unknown at AFL level than blokes who have been in the system for years and yet are only fringe players.

How would you describe Menagola?

Vardy?

Yeo?

 

[Obeanie1]

We can’t even develop Jetta with all his weapons to play hff..


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

We are a football club not heart transplant surgeons

 

[RookiePick]

Seems like we're trying to fill in the age gap around the 22/23 year old range where we stuffed up those drafts.
Ah Chee just feels too much like Bennell, Morton, Lucas, Dick etc, I mean it's not like Port didn't have a midfield position to play him in the last few years, SPP just slotted right in for every game. I feel like if he was good enough they would have played him more.

We are in a shit spot with the list. A couple of foot-soldiers will be necessary while we wait (pray) for Sheed, Duggan, Venables and our boys like Nello and Cole to grow into their potential and to also provide injury cover.

B: Hurn Barrass Sheppard
HB: Yeo McGovern Duggan
C: Gaff Redden Jetta
HF: Venables Vardy Darling
F: Cripps JJK Rioli
R: Naita Shuey Sheed

I: Lycett, Nelson, Cole, Ah Chee

E: Emac, Karpany, Mutimer, 2017 1st Rounder

The important thing is to pay foot-soldier prices so we can use our high picks (first 3 rounds) to keep acquiring quality from the draft.

You only have to look at the physical impact on Gaff, Sheed and Shuey this season of having to carry a huge workload to realise that there are important reasons to get them more help around the ball. We need a couple of "ready to go" mids - I'm all ears for who and where we get them. T. Kelly sounds like a likely type but it sounds like he is getting more expensive by the day...

 

[Obeanie1]

Let GCS have Ah Chee so he can play with his brother ..


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Lets roll the dice with Ah chee as it costs nothing and then get his brother.

 

[FKASC]

How would you describe Menagola?

Vardy?

Yeo?

Yeo was by no means a fringe player when we poached him, he was one of Brisbane's up and comers.

Vardy was given every chance in the first few years at Geelong when he wasn't injured, but the club ended up getting frustrated with his body and brought in Smith and Stanley as more reliably healthy options.

For every Menegola there are many more list cloggers - plus he had already failed at two AFL clubs, maybe Geelong are just really good at getting the best out of plodders.

 

[eagles rule]

We are a football club not heart transplant surgeons

True he plays like he was forced by Sydney to play some where else he doesn’t want to be ..

 

[Godfather32]

We are in a shit spot with the list. A couple of foot-soldiers will be necessary while we wait (pray) for Sheed, Duggan, Venables and our boys like Nello and Cole to grow into their potential and to also provide injury cover.

B: Hurn Barrass Sheppard
HB: Yeo McGovern Duggan
C: Gaff Redden Jetta
HF: Venables Vardy Darling
F: Cripps JJK Rioli
R: Naita Shuey Sheed

I: Lycett, Nelson, Cole, Ah Chee

E: Emac, Karpany, Mutimer, 2017 1st Rounder

The important thing is to pay foot-soldier prices so we can use our high picks (first 3 rounds) to keep acquiring quality from the draft.

You only have to look at the physical impact on Gaff, Sheed and Shuey this season of having to carry a huge workload to realise that there are important reasons to get them more help around the ball. We need a couple of "ready to go" mids - I'm all ears for who and where we get them. T. Kelly sounds like a likely type but it sounds like he is getting more expensive by the day...

The thing with Ah Chee is that he's likely going to be a fringe player here too, I mean you've barely managed to fit him into the team. Just seems like a similar story to what we've all seen play out before. Player gets delisted from club x, we pick him up in the rookie draft and play him for a handful of games, gets delisted by us 2 years later.

 

[RookiePick]

I think its time to stop pretending that bog average mature imports are going to improve the team. We just have to start the rebuild from the draft and take a few losses along the way.

It's not about thinking these guys put us over the top for a flag tilt.

It's about not killing our stars while our talent develops or killing the talent with too many minutes in positions they are not physically ready for.

Role players that can run both ways are hardly going to hurt us if they cost bugger all to get on the list.

re: lucas, morton etc...these guys never had a skill set that filled a void in the list. We currently have a void in the list - 23-24 year old, mature bodies that can play around the ball. They don't have to be world beaters, just competitive - exactly like Vardy and Petrie were for us this season.

 

[Agent93]

maybe Geelong are just really good at getting the best out of plodders

Or recognising talent in the second tier leagues. That said for every Menegola there's a Kane Mitchell who doesn't make it. There's also quite a few middling players like Hutchings, Sam Gibson et al.

 

[Yamumluvsbigcox]

Man this thread is depressing, all this talk of us picking up fringe players from other clubs. None of these will improve us. Bottom line is we have 8 or 10 players in proximity to our 22 who are at best borderline AFL players. So every week we roll the dice on 4 or more of them into the team and most weeks they play like shit. So at selection we go back to the well and recycle the same shit through the team for the same result.

The only way we improve is by adding to the 12-15 genuine AFL players we have who can impact games in a positive way. That is via the draft. I dunno when it was that we went away from our tried and tested model for all of our previous history of taking prudent selections at the draft and then developing. Used to annoy me at the time that were weren't active in trades, but man we were like a development factory. Its only really the last 5-6 years we keep doing this shit of blowing good draft picks for fringe players. I'd rather take punts on young kids or even top end WAFL players who are unknown at AFL level than blokes who have been in the system for years and yet are only fringe players.

So with a draft that is 50 deep and us holding 3 picks in that range how do you expect us to get these 12-15 players ?

Also I don't think anyone is blowing any picks on fringe players . Ah chee was the best player in the sanfl last year . Tim Kelly was also pretty much the best.
Ah chee would cost us a throw away pick .

 

[ziad]

So with a draft that is 50 deep and us holding 3 picks in that range how do you expect us to get these 12-15 players ?

Also I don't think anyone is blowing any picks on fringe players . Ah chee was the best player in the sanfl last year . Tim Kelly was also pretty much the best.
Ah chee would cost us a throw away pick .

There is an argument that bringing in rejects impacts culture

 

[Dark Sharks]

So with a draft that is 50 deep and us holding 3 picks in that range how do you expect us to get these 12-15 players ?

Also I don't think anyone is blowing any picks on fringe players . Ah chee was the best player in the sanfl last year . Tim Kelly was also pretty much the best.
Ah chee would cost us a throw away pick .

Well which is it cobber, he's supposedly "the best player in the SANFL" according to you so one would think that is valuable depth.

And yet Port are going to give away the perfect depth player for peanuts are they? A throw away pick?

Seems to me you're either playing up how good he is, or playing down how much we'll be paying. With the truth likely to be in the middle.

 

[Obeanie1]

Yeo was by no means a fringe player when we poached him, he was one of Brisbane's up and comers.

Vardy was given every chance in the first few years at Geelong when he wasn't injured, but the club ended up getting frustrated with his body and brought in Smith and Stanley as more reliably healthy options.

For every Menegola there are many more list cloggers - plus he had already failed at two AFL clubs, maybe Geelong are just really good at getting the best out of plodders.

Plenty of examples of this working.

Draft isnt the only way to build a list. Look at Sydney and Carlton.

 

[RookiePick]

The thing with Ah Chee is that he's likely going to be a fringe player here too, I mean you've barely managed to fit him into the team. Just seems like a similar story to what we've all seen play out before. Player gets delisted from club x, we pick him up in the rookie draft and play him for a handful of games, gets delisted by us 2 years later.

A fringe player that fills a hole in our list vs a fringe player that we have heaps of depth for already. Hurn, Wellingham, Nelson, Duggan, Cole, Yeo, Sheppard, Watson, Rotham and Gorter as defenders - that's almost 25% of our list in medium sized defenders! Allen, Lamb and Waterman stacked up as 3rd tall options behind Darling. You seriously don't think we can't find better value from a couple of list spots invested into a glaring weakness in our list.

What if Shuey, Sheed or Redden go down with a long term injury? You think Duggan/Cole/Nelson can play on the ball for a whole match? We take our AA HBF in Yeo and use him as Mr Fixit for another season to his/our detriment?

 

[Yamumluvsbigcox]

There is an argument that bringing in rejects impacts culture

I don't think ahchee is a reject . He asked for trade last year because he wasn't getting opportunity port refused . He hasn't signed a new contract and is leaving .

 

[Obeanie1]

The thing with Ah Chee is that he's likely going to be a fringe player here too, I mean you've barely managed to fit him into the team. Just seems like a similar story to what we've all seen play out before. Player gets delisted from club x, we pick him up in the rookie draft and play him for a handful of games, gets delisted by us 2 years later.

You need a squad of 30 to contend. Always someone injured, out of form or suspended.

 

[West Coast 06]

Plenty of examples of this working.

Draft isnt the only way to build a list. Look at Sydney and Carlton.

And Hawthorn. Plenty of their premiership players are from another teams list originally.

 

[Yamumluvsbigcox]

Well which is it cobber, he's supposedly "the best player in the SANFL" according to you so one would think that is valuable depth.

And yet Port are going to give away the perfect depth player for peanuts are they? A throw away pick?

Seems to me you're either playing up how good he is, or playing down how much we'll be paying. With the truth likely to be in the middle.

He is worth a throw away pick because he has had a gut full of port not giving him opportunity to play midfield and is out the door . He asked for a trade last year and port held him to his contract .

 

[amazingjoshy]

Plenty of examples of this working.

Draft isnt the only way to build a list. Look at Sydney and Carlton.

Both this year's grand finalists too. Crows have zero top ten picks and a bunch of recycled players. Tigers bought in Nankervis, Prestia, Caddy and their small fwds (bar Rioli) weren't exactly highly rated juniors.

 

[Farang83150]

The Gaffster to the Saints for pick 7, that's very very tempting.

 

[Godfather32]

A fringe player that fills a hole in our list vs a fringe player that we have heaps of depth for already. Hurn, Wellingham, Nelson, Duggan, Cole, Yeo, Sheppard, Watson, Rotham and Gorter as defenders - that's almost 25% of our list in medium sized defenders! Allen, Lamb and Waterman stacked up as 3rd tall options behind Darling. You seriously don't think we can't find better value from a couple of list spots invested into a glaring weakness in our list.

What if Shuey, Sheed or Redden go down with a long term injury? You think Duggan/Cole/Nelson can play on the ball for a whole match? We take our AA HBF in Yeo and use him as Mr Fixit for another season to his/our detriment?

I think that probably 3 or 4 of Duggan, Cole, Nelson, Watson and Rotham should be developed as midfielders. Gorter shouldn't be on our list. Lamb also being played out of position as a deep forward and should be moved further up the ground. Ah Chee is just the kind of move that doesn't seem to pay off for us, all I'm saying is that chances are it'll turn out the same as it has in the recent past.

 

[ChampRevesby]

It's not about thinking these guys put us over the top for a flag tilt.

It's about not killing our stars while our talent develops or killing the talent with too many minutes in positions they are not physically ready for.

Role players that can run both ways are hardly going to hurt us if they cost bugger all to get on the list.

re: lucas, morton etc...these guys never had a skill set that filled a void in the list. We currently have a void in the list - 23-24 year old, mature bodies that can play around the ball. They don't have to be world beaters, just competitive - exactly like Vardy and Petrie were for us this season.

We have two options. Go conservative by filling over some gaps and letting our stars peter out; or be a little more progressive and take a punt on picking up some gun talent in the draft over the next 2-3 years (taking a few hits early on) so our current stars can have a chance at a flag. Not interesting in another 4-5 years of mediocrity with a team that will never cut it. I'd rather we linger down the bottom of the ladder by taking a chance on some gun kids than persisting with the status quo. Need to get someone in there that can actually identify and develop talent that can take the club to flag. Look if Ah Chee is free then sure, pick him up and fill that experience gap but not at the expense of a high draft pick.

 

[ChampRevesby]

And Hawthorn. Plenty of their premiership players are from another teams list originally.

All the best 22 at other clubs. They filled their gaps expertly not haphazardly. They knew they were a few experienced players away from a flag. We will be filling gaps just to maintain a 10-11 place finish for next few seasons.

 

[nameless]

The Gaffster to the Saints for pick 7, that's very very tempting.

Not for someone who was pick 4 and has turned into an AA midfielder.

Pick 7-10 range isn't a guaranteed star

2011: Haynes, Longer, Tomlinson, Sumner
2012: Wines, Mayes, Vlastuin, Daniher
2013: Aish, McDonald, Salem, Freeman
2014: Ahern, Wright, Moore, Cockatoo
2015: Hopper, Ah Chee, Weiderman, McKay

That's a list of the last few years of drafts between 7-10, I highlighted 1 player who is as good as Gaff.
With Daniher a F/S.

The back end of the top 10 seems to be good for a solid player but not a star.
You're not getting the high end talent of the top 5 and teams seem to chase those 'fallen stars'.