- Jan 13, 2013
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He's playing for South Fremantle, doesn't appear to be doing too much
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2017 trade/draft thread
- Thread starter mattyc75
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Thanks for clearing that up.
What are you view FiveStrings on the performance of our list management since 2012? Is it just me being grumpy or do others think they have under-performed?
Galileo9
Premiership Player
I like it that players stay loyal. Generally clubs can offer same money and GC can throw more than us given they are shite. You generally have to severely overpay.
And then wce fans will make them into whipping boys if they don't play to the money. That's what we r good at.
Keys
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Just on the failure of the club to entice players from the expansion clubs, Fremantle have only done slightly better with McCarthy and Bennell so far
Bennell was a discard due to behaviour issues who we didn't even consider with significant justification even ignoring the fact he hasn't played a game yet due to his calf problems
They chased McCarthy hard and only the Giants stupidity saved Fremantle from themselves when they knocked back two first round picks for him in 2015. Their tank last year helped with a deal for a player GWS had no choice but to part with
Off the top of my head the SA clubs haven't fared much better with Port getting a damaged Dixon. I stand to be corrected on that
The Victoria clubs, Collingwood and Carlton in particular, have done far better especially from GWS where Gubby Allen and Steve Silvagni respecting loom as common dominators
Just why that is can be debated but it appears the WA boys are more comfortable in a different environment than those from Victoria. Also, as indicated by WA boy O'Meara the travel is s factor
As for our list management since 2010 we've done well retaining players with Ebert and to a lesser extent Scott Selwood the only two we've lost who would be making a difference had they stayed. Stevens as well at a stretch I suppose
Of the players we've either traded or drafted in from 2011 onwards only Yeo, Sheed, Wellingham, Cripps, Hill and Barrass could be considered best 22 - a couple of those have only just established themselves as such and a couple are just barely hanging on to that claim. Hutchings has been serviceable as a mature age draftee and as a speculative pick has been a reasonable choice
Redden is looking like a bust unless he turns his form around. Jetta's last 2 weeks have given a glimmer of hope albeit only after a season and a half of frustration
Duggan and Nelson have shown a bit as draftees but Duggan in particular has stagnated. Others like Mutimer, Karpany, Cole, Lamb and Partington have barely played 10 games between them so whilst they've all shown a bit of promise to varying degrees haven't proven themselves and may not make it
Waterman and Cavka had their careers cruelled before they got their chance. Newman basically threw his away in a moment of madness. The club could point to these as unforeseeable bad luck but that's footy
The club can also point to a genuine dearth of high picks (only one top ten pick in 6 years which not coincidentally was our best year - 2013)
I have hopes that our 2016 draft will prove fruitful- Venables, Rotham, Rioli, Waterman and Watson appears a good crop with some genuine X-factor amongst them. Vardy I think was also a good trade. Mitchell and Petrie were understandable short term trades that have been successful even if they weren't necessarily planned as such and were dictated by circumstances
There's an argument that we could have been more aggressive in trading players out and chasing players from other clubs but that's hard to make an informed judgement from the outside, other than to say their efforts, if any, didn't result in much. With the benefit of hindsight the decision to knock back St Kildas overtures for Brown was a mistake but one at the time was justified imo
We've also had a tendency to hang onto players too long when it should have been clear that weren't going to make it. Our use of the rookie list in particular has been confounding at times
Much of what we've done has been to succeed now with a list the core of which was put together pre 2010. That strategy has gotten us close without the ultimate success and now leaves us precariously placed with an aging list and a group of unproven youngsters
If there's a common theme that runs through what the club has done its been a focus on bringing in good citizens but that has arguably been at the expense of picking up hard nosed competitors
All things considered I'd give our overall list management a 6/10 - we've had a good list that was capable of making a GF in 2015 so the basic talent was there although it came with a soft under belly that hasn't responded well to pressure. It's been something of a steady as she goes approach that has leaned to the conservative and avoided taking risks
Vozzo and co have some genuinely difficult decisions to make in the back half of this season as our 2017 off season looms as a pivotal one for our future and conservative is likely to consign us to mediocrity
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Miguel Sanchez
Snide Shooter
There's been hits and misses. We did well in 2013 to get Yeo cheaply and to trade down when we identified Sheed as the guy we wanted. We also did well last year to get Mitchell and Vardy cheaply. On the other hand I thought in 2015 we overpaid for Redden, even if he'd reproduced his Brisbane form for us, and we could have done better than a straight swap of Sinclair for Jetta.
I'm more worried about the development of the draftees we've taken and the limited opportunities they've been given.
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The draftees we've picked under Simpson I feel have been a little different to the ones prior to him getting there. Take out the 2013 draft because that year he said he didn't want to come in and ruffle feathers, he should have swung the axe on some senior players prior to coming in and set the tone that he wasn't taking bullshit early, however thats a side note. All the draftees since then are 3rd year max draftees, IMO the questions about their development is a bit harsh because, we've persevered with spuds for far too long in positions that wouldn't have really affected results. We have shown less faith in our youngsters (bar Duggan) than any other club. Partington should have debuted last year, there was a stretch of games he got high possessions consistently, I didn't watch the games but he should have been given a chance over the last picked. At the current rate Lamb deserves a game over Darling, won't happen though.
What are the rumours? What package do you think we could put together?
Duggan, First and next years second?
Cripps would surely cost a bit since he is contracted till 2019 ?
Kennedy and Masten?
I barely watch the Suns play. What do people actually think of Matera? Does he get much midfield time? Looking at stats alone he averages roughly 20 possessions a game this season - we could use a half forward that can actually find the pill.
It seems like going after McGovern and Matera would cost us our first two picks (approx. 12 + 30). While we do need to add to our forward line stocks I'm reluctant to want to trade out of the draft entirely, even if it is shallow.
Hopefully we could be creative with some unwanted players to upgrade our way back into the top 30 but it's tough to see how we might get that done.
It seems like going after McGovern and Matera would cost us our first two picks (approx. 12 + 30). While we do need to add to our forward line stocks I'm reluctant to want to trade out of the draft entirely, even if it is shallow.
Hopefully we could be creative with some unwanted players to upgrade our way back into the top 30 but it's tough to see how we might get that done.
Matera - He has been a very handy small forward for the GC this year but we have Rioli. Not against getting Matera but not for anything more than a 3rd rounder. He is out of contract and if he wants to come home a 3rd rounder is all it should get take.
Mcgovern Jnr - Not that answer to replace JK. Always good to have 2 Mcgovens but not for a first rounder. 2nd rounder or not even worth it.
Matera is a better Jamie Cripps, and neither have showed any midfield ability unfortunately. The potential is there though , but is it worth wasting a spot on our list for a player that might be able to develop into a midfielder?
I don't think we could carry Cripps and Matera
Nice suggestion, but I think 2 firsts would be the minimum given his reputation at Carlton.
Matera is a way better crumber but Cripps has more Midfield scope.
Most other clubs have more than one zippy forward. Putting all our crumbing forward hopes on Rioli is a bit harsh. We have Lecca Hill and Cripps as the small/medium. Lecca isn't a crumber, Cripps is the defensive forward, Hill isn't bad but he doesn't really impact games.
Admittedly I've only seen the highlight videos of Rioli but he seems more of the same Lecca type not the Cyril type, manic pressure and pace, that everyone expects him to be.
I guess It depends where we finish and what duggan's worth is considered to be. I wouldn't really be happy to get rid of 3 premium chips even for Cripps. He would need to be wanting to go home too but maybe:
Duggan
WCE 2017 First
WCE 2018 First
For
Cripps
Carlton's 2018 Second
gives them a player replacement and 2 first round draft picks, but keeps us in the draft next year.
Happy to trade one first rounder for Cripps but not two..Could set us back a bit if things go pear shaped.
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Maybe not but he is a known quantity and we could build a midfield around him, Shuey and Sheed. He may not be quick but he bursts through congestion and his form this year has been hampered by his interrupted preseason. Probably all academic as I doubt Carlton would let him go without a fight but WC should chase hard if he is an option.
Essentially that's 3 first rounders for one player... (including Duggan). It's a lot to give up, way too much imo.
It's more than Carlton paid for Judd as per above, and more than Geelong paid for Dangerfield...
Miguel Sanchez
Snide Shooter
Normally when posters put up massively one-sided trade suggestions, they rip off the other team.
Throw in Barrass as a sweetner too.
I'd agree largely with this, but I do think they've done some decent work since Simpson has been here. It's easy to forget, but when we bottomed out, the draft was heavily compromised.
In my opinion the two teams that have been hit hardest by the expansion teams are Fremantle and US. With no academies, priority picks, not serious F/S selections and with significantly lower draft picks both teams made it to a grand final where their shallow talent pool ultimately let them down.
The team to most benefit has been Hawthorn, who played three away teams in consecutive years, that were hamstrung by compromised drafts. It's my bugbear and the main reason I don't rate Hawthorn's 3-peat as highly as Brisbane's.
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