List Mgmt. 2018 List Management: Contracts, Trading, Drafting, Academy

[dlanod]

Wont happen though regardless of talent or lack thereof, as has already been noted he returned to Melbourne for personal reasons and is very unlikely to want to leave.

FWIW it wasn't due to personal reasons. It was due to "lack of opportunity" - he was "stuck" behind Leuenberger (as a second year ruck).

 

[Giant Strides]

Overly expectant then, it would seem.

 

[Determinant]

FWIW it wasn't due to personal reasons. It was due to "lack of opportunity" - he was "stuck" behind Leuenberger (as a second year ruck).

Absolutely right sorry, had the wrong guy in mind when thinking of that trade period..

Also realised I tried to say in way too many words, that Longer is a better ruck than Hickey, but Hickey is a better footballer than Longer, sainst would want to keep both,

 

[Danny88]

It's not quite that simple tbh, though some sainters would like it to be.
Longer is a better than decent ruck, but a less than average fwd, so one dimensional, he also spent most of this year battling injuries of varying significance.
Hickey is an ok ruck who is more effective around the ground.
Longer could just as easily as not be their number 1 ruck next year and doi a decent job.

Wont happen though regardless of talent or lack thereof, as has already been noted he returned to Melbourne for personal reasons and is very unlikely to want to leave.

I'm not really sold on us needing a new ruck unless it's a dude with a year or two at best in him, Flynn is a super exciting young talent and to cut off his avenue to AFL game time with another youngish ruck coming in not only sends the wrong sort of message to the playing group about opportunity, but would also likely see us lose him.

I just don’t recognize it as a need

Lobb is the guy

Simpson the reserve

Flynn the developer

Keefe has even played that role as a pinch but is a Much better defender

Why would we need another? Especially if Briggs comes to the club

 

[Determinant]

I just don’t recognize it as a need

Lobb is the guy

Simpson the reserve

Flynn the developer

Keefe has even played that role as a pinch but is a Much better defender

Why would we need another? Especially if Briggs comes to the club

Agreed 100%, this year more than any other we should be looking at best available in all circumstances.

 

[Danny88]

Agreed 100%, this year more than any other we should be looking at best available in all circumstances.

To be honest even when Lobb has a good game people seem to ignore it. He draws even with good rucks (like sinclair on the weekend) and it’s not enough. Will people ever be happy?

 

[Teeso]

To be honest even when Lobb has a good game people seem to ignore it. He draws even with good rucks (like sinclair on the weekend) and it’s not enough. Will people ever be happy?

Its not a knock on Lobb's ability but his durability. Whilst much of the responsibility falls on the strength and conditioning team it cant be ignored that injuries have held our team back from its full potential. With the way Lobb attacks the ball and falls from such a height, his body is battered most weeks. The backup rucks we pursue are moreso as potential targets to eventually replace simpson rather than Lobb with the exception of Preuss. If we get Preuss, he would get the top job. Simpson has been serviceable but he does have obvious deficiences in his game and he isnt going to get any younger. An experienced ruck in the reserves means Lobb can still play fulltime ruck when fit, but on weeks when hes struggling, it gives us the flexibility to still have his presence up forward with a bigger body in the primary ruck. Until flynn is ready to fill simpson's shoes (if he is ultimately our next big ruckman), a backup experienced ruckman will have a role to play.

 

[Danny88]

Its not a knock on Lobb's ability but his durability. Whilst much of the responsibility falls on the strength and conditioning team it cant be ignored that injuries have held our team back from its full potential. With the way Lobb attacks the ball and falls from such a height, his body is battered most weeks. The backup rucks we pursue are moreso as potential targets to eventually replace simpson rather than Lobb with the exception of Preuss. If we get Preuss, he would get the top job. Simpson has been serviceable but he does have obvious deficiences in his game and he isnt going to get any younger. An experienced ruck in the reserves means Lobb can still play fulltime ruck when fit, but on weeks when hes struggling, it gives us the flexibility to still have his presence up forward with a bigger body in the primary ruck. Until flynn is ready to fill simpson's shoes (if he is ultimately our next big ruckman), a backup experienced ruckman will have a role to play.

I just disagree that preuss is a need. He is untested and with so little experience he could be anything. I even disagree with the premise that another ruck is needed. With Lobb, Simpson, Flynn and even Keefe at 200 odd cm it seems superfluous to needs. Bringing someone else in would then give us 5 ruck options. Tell me a team that wastes that much $$ and space on their list to have 5 rucks.

Unless of course you say that the rucks we have aren't good enough. Thats a different argument. I have been critical of Simpson's limitations on this board but have to admit he was better than serviceable when selected. Lobb fits the modern day ruck.... tall athletic, can run and get around the ground. It is the mould most clubs are trying to recruit. He has had a rough go with injuries this year but I certainly think he is our best prospect going forward.

 

[Raymann]

I just don’t recognize it as a need

Lobb is the guy

Simpson the reserve

Flynn the developer

Keefe has even played that role as a pinch but is a Much better defender

Why would we need another? Especially if Briggs comes to the club

Lobb is not the guy. It is our weakness on the list. My money is Lobb returning to WA sooner rather than later (just a gut feeling).

 

[Danny88]

Lobb is not the guy. It is our weakness on the list. My money is Lobb returning to WA sooner rather than later (just a gut feeling).

Well.... see there is this thing called a salary cap. So of course there will be weaknesses. It’s not like we could afford a gawn or Grundy to come in

I’m not sure it actually is a weakness. His tap work and work around the ground is at worst, comparable to the established rucks of the competition

 

[David C]

Absolutely right sorry, had the wrong guy in mind when thinking of that trade period..

Also realised I tried to say in way too many words, that Longer is a better ruck than Hickey, but Hickey is a better footballer than Longer, sainst would want to keep both,

Not if they get Lycett.

 

[Giant Pete]

Lobb is not the guy. It is our weakness on the list. My money is Lobb returning to WA sooner rather than later (just a gut feeling).

I think he is going well. He’ll get beaten in the ruck by a few others but he is good around the ground. Given his late start he is projecting to peak in a couple of years.

 

[Giant Strides]

My thought would be the central factor to the ruck situation would be Flynn's progress. If GWS perceive that he's ready to be tried in first grade next year, I can't see them really changing out Dawson Simpson. Certainly not for someone like Preuss - he'd stall Flynn's progress. Secondary would be their perception of Rory's progress, and to be honest, I think some here are judging him too harshly given his issues over the off-season. However, I do see the concerns over his durability. Essentially, if Flynn could get up to split rucking duties with him somewhere 50/50 to 70/30, I think our structure would be OK (noting Leon loves his 3 tall forwards). I do expect us to select Briggs as a guy capable of rucking and being a decent third forward - we might end up with rucking combos of Flynn/Lobb and Simpson/Briggs in NEAFL by sometime next season. I also think it most likely that we'll retain Keeffe as that extra ruck-capable player; although I wouldn't be surprised if either Simpson or Keeffe was delisted and then rookied given our numbers situation.

 

[Andre the Giant]

Lobb is not the guy. It is our weakness on the list. My money is Lobb returning to WA sooner rather than later (just a gut feeling).

I’m not satisfied with our ruck depth at all. Lobb is useless at the tap, Simpson is solid but extremely injury prone. Rory is good around the ground and a terrific contested mark but that doesn’t solve our issues.

We have all these gun mids and must realise the importance of feeding them the ball.

Every time I see Brodie Grundy destroying opposition teams I die a little inside. Imagine our team with him or Gawn in it..

 

[Danny88]

I’m not satisfied with our ruck depth at all. Lobb is useless at the tap, Simpson is solid but extremely injury prone. Rory is good around the ground and a terrific contested mark but that doesn’t solve our issues.

We have all these gun mids and must realise the importance of feeding them the ball.

Every time I see Brodie Grundy destroying opposition teams I die a little inside. Imagine our team with him or Gawn in it..

Lobb against sinclair-38 hit outs
Against Jacobs-40 hit outs

Ur going to have a hard time convincing me he is “useless” as you say

And the Grundy gawn is a pipe dream

 

[Determinant]

Ruck merry-go-round set to spin again
Nick Bowen and Mitch Cleary
Aug 23, 2018 7:00AM

THIS year the annual ruck merry-go-round is expected to kick back into gear after a strangely quiet 2017.
Club list managers and recruiters expect a similar high volume of ruckmen to find new homes this year, with West Coast's restricted free agent Scott Lycett looming as the key domino.

Lycett's importance to the Eagles has skyrocketed since Nic Naitanui underwent a knee reconstruction that's set to sideline him for much of next season.

But the 25-year-old South Australian is being heavily courted by clubs including Port Adelaide and St Kilda, with many industry sources expecting the Power's bid for the former SANFL Magpie will be successful.

If Lycett does leave West Coast, the Eagles will desperately need to find support for Nathan Vardy until Naitanui is ready to resume.

Western Bulldog Jordan Roughead is one opposition player the Eagles are believed to be considering if that scenario eventuates, with the restricted free agent widely expected to be at a new home in 2019.

But Roughead is far from the only option West Coast could explore.
Experienced ruckmen such as Saint Billy Longer, Essendon free agent Matthew Leuenberger and Bulldog Tom Campbell remain out of contract, as does Saints rookie Lewis Pierce, who has shown promise since earning a recall for the past two games.

And where hungry keepers regularly move states in search of more opportunity, ruckmen are also inclined to at least explore their chances of stepping into No.1 ruck roles at other clubs.

Contracted ruckmen who could fall into this boat include North Melbourne's Braydon Preuss, Geelong's Zac Smith, Gold Coast's Tom Nicholls and, to a lesser extent, Hawk Jonathon Ceglar.

Lycett's decision will also affect St Kilda, where at least one of Longer, Pierce or the contracted Tom Hickey would be on the move if the Eagle landed at Moorabbin.
Sydney is another club that could be in the hunt for an experienced ruckman given Kurt Tippett's pre-season retirement and the fact Sam Naismith will be returning from a knee reconstruction in 2019.

Matthew Kreuzer's advancing age and Andrew Phillips' injury troubles could again convince Carlton to bolster its ruck division, Melbourne could look for more back-up for Max Gawn, while Greater Western Sydney has yet to bring in an experienced replacement for the retired Shane Mumford.

The Giants might hold fire this year, content they already have enough ruck coverage with Rory Lobb, Dawson Simpson, who has opened talks with the club on a new deal, Matthew Flynn and likely Academy recruit Kieren Briggs.

However, Port, West Coast and St Kilda are highly unlikely to.


More in the link
https://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-08-23/ruck-merrygoround-set-to-spin-again

 

[Orange Agent]

I reckon Sinclair took over in the 2nd half last week and the Swans started winning clearances and got on a roll. I think Lobb is halfway in between a full time and part time ruck, whether another year developing gets him there is the question, but he needs support and the list needs a capable back up. If the club has faith in Flynn it's gotta be a choice between Simpson or somebody else and I wouldn't be keen on giving up much for some of the alternative names going around.

 

[Teeso]

http://www.gwsgiants.com.au/news/2018-08-23/stein-upgraded-to-senior-list

Stein just upgraded to senior list with Patton on long-term injury list.

 

[Giant Strides]

Just getting ducks in line for any finals eventuality, I would think.

 

[Andre the Giant]

Lobb against sinclair-38 hit outs
Against Jacobs-40 hit outs

Ur going to have a hard time convincing me he is “useless” as you say

And the Grundy gawn is a pipe dream

I like him as a player but he’s average in that area.

The proper rucks don’t just get the touch but get effective touches. Guys like Grundy and Gawn are there as benchmark ruckmen, not as targets. The Grundy ship sailed when he was overlooked 5 times by SOS.

Anyway bottom line is we don’t have adequate resources in this vital position and really need to address it or we will never exploit our midfield strength.

 

[fridgeman]

I am still a believer that Shiel will stay and I am sure the flog media will continue the articles up till trade week finishes and then start on the articles about how close he was to signing with club X
If i am wrong I would hope the club can manage a top 5 pick for him as his ability and experience will really effect the following season

 

[fridgeman]

Also I may be wrong on this but are the rookie list rules still 3 years? This is Sam Reids third year on the rookie list so he would need to be upgraded to stay on the list which I would think is unlikely as it looks like main list spots are tough and also I can see the club sticking to 38 on the main list

 

[Danny88]

I like him as a player but he’s average in that area.

The proper rucks don’t just get the touch but get effective touches. Guys like Grundy and Gawn are there as benchmark ruckmen, not as targets. The Grundy ship sailed when he was overlooked 5 times by SOS.

Anyway bottom line is we don’t have adequate resources in this vital position and really need to address it or we will never exploit our midfield strength.

U are untitled to an opinion but are you going to use fmsome fact to substantiate it? Or just keep calling him useless?

 

[fridgeman]

Small possibility but with Dunn and Scharenberg down with ACLs wonder if they look at Keefe or Mohr as one year fill ins?
Interesting list position for them to be in although Dunn may have been on his last year and they have plenty of mid sized options
Also if Lycett leaves I am sure they would look to recruit a mature ruck and how much they would overpay

 

[Determinant]

Small possibility but with Dunn and Scharenberg down with ACLs wonder if they look at Keefe or Mohr as one year fill ins?
Interesting list position for them to be in although Dunn may have been on his last year and they have plenty of mid sized options
Also if Lycett leaves I am sure they would look to recruit a mature ruck and how much they would overpay

This feels very random