List Mgmt. 2018 List Management: Contracts, Trading, Drafting, Academy

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

I meant the AFL suing everyone to hush it up, given Simmo's comment that since Mumford was on a list when the video was taken he should have some layer of protection to stop this getting out.



It's next to impossible to get a conviction on drug use based off a video. Everyone "knows" it's drugs but there's no way to prove it in court without toxicology or blood testing, neither of which is possible years after the date. As far as we know it could be talcum powder or chalk or whatever else (haha yeah right, but there's a higher standard in the courts).

I get that was what you meant.

I think a criminal conviction could be obtained.The club statement confirms he's admitted it to them. A confession is pretty strong evidence. Maybe you could argue he wouldn't actually know if it was an illegal substance.
.
It's not I think he needs more punishment. I have no doubt this is a terrible time for him. I object in principle to a sporting body usurping the role of the law. It leads to bad things.

Remember the Canterbury Bulldogs pack rape thing in 2004 I think it was. Detectives were working with the club investigation and sharing information. They were eventually and rightfully fired for it.

 

[Orange Agent]

I'd always thought Mumford's comeback after injury retirement may have been a bit of an issue at other clubs and possibly AFL HQ. To some extent it could be viewed by some as having salary cap implications as he went from being a listed player on a good wage still contracted for another year to being a paid part time coach. Only the club and AFL would know what his injury payout was and did he get paid to coach the same year he was contracted to play. Given the rumours of the past month and what has transpired in trade week the release of a 3 year old video just prior to the draft is not a coincidence in my view. 3 guesses for the source of the video leak, I'm going with someone linked to the Swans.

 

[Simmofreo]

Are you suggesting the AFL should somehow prevent drug-related news stories from any source? I don't think that's very practical or even possible short of constant legal action on a very tenuous basis.

Hey mate

No I was responding around the issue that this was not while he was a coach. And I'm talking about whether it will effect his comeback. Someone said it's ok because he was not on a list this year so it would not go under the same ASADA laws as a playing employee. But this was while he was still playing

That's what I meant

Does that make sense ?

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Danny88]

I get that was what you meant.

I think a criminal conviction could be obtained.The club statement confirms he's admitted it to them. A confession is pretty strong evidence. Maybe you could argue he wouldn't actually know if it was an illegal substance.
.
It's not I think he needs more punishment. I have no doubt this is a terrible time for him. I object in principle to a sporting body usurping the role of the law. It leads to bad things.

Remember the Canterbury Bulldogs pack rape thing in 2004 I think it was. Detectives were working with the club investigation and sharing information. They were eventually and rightfully fired for it.

There will be no criminal conviction

He has brought the game into disrepute so the AFL might sanction him but that would be it.

We will still probably draft him and move on

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

There will be no criminal conviction

He has brought the game into disrepute so the AFL might sanction him but that would be it.

We will still probably draft him and move on

It doesn't seem so but that wasn't my point. My point is it should be investigated by the Police with a view to charges.

 

[Danny88]

It doesn't seem so but that wasn't my point. My point is it should be investigated by the Police with a view to charges.

And as its been pointed out... what are the charges? ingesting drugs? He cant be done for posession/ distribution unless a witness says he is a dealer.

there is no charge here

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

And as its been pointed out... what are the charges? ingesting drugs? He cant be done for posession/ distribution unless a witness says he is a dealer.

there is no charge here

Consuming cocaine is illegal. Your argument around possession makes no sense at all, and is unrelated to reality.

 

[Danny88]

Consuming cocaine is illegal. Your argument around possession makes no sense at all, and is unrelated to reality.

Drug charges

Yes consuming cocaine is illegal. Proving that 3 years after the fact is impossible. The court needs the results from a blood test to convict. The only other way would be a confession which will never happen.

In relation to possession charges, there is no drug- the video is not enough to confirm it was in fact a drug. It again needs testing after an arrest has been made.

There will be no legal follow up on this issue

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

Drug charges

Yes consuming cocaine is illegal. Proving that 3 years after the fact is impossible. The court needs the results from a blood test to convict. The only other way would be a confession which will never happen.

In relation to possession charges, there is no drug- the video is not enough to confirm it was in fact a drug. It again needs testing after an arrest has been made.

There will be no legal follow up on this issue

Actually there is an admission in the clubs statement. Those discussions could be vented in court. Hard to deny in the context of the press release.

Attached us an extract from a book on NSW drug law fringe the NSW Library :-


"Some of the most common drug offences are for possession, use and supply of prohibited drugs. Each drug offence has specific legal 'elements' which the prosecution must prove beyond reasonable doubt. In this section, we examine the necessary legal elements for the offence of use. These elements are established by the terms of the legislation, as interpreted by precedent court decisions.

Using an illegal drug (also known as 'self-administration') is an offence under section 12 of the Drug Misuse and Trafficking Act 1985 (NSW). The police must prove that the substance consumed was a prohibited drug. Obviously they cannot analyse the substance if it has been completely consumed, and blood tests can only be taken by a doctor after arrest. So for most convictions they must rely on admissions made by the accused."

Clearly an admission is sufficient for a prosecution as you said.

 

[captainMyCaptain]

Interesting to see how many media outlets are suggesting that its likely we will still pick up Mumford as a player.

The Herald Sun on Tuesday reported he is still likely to play for GWS again and be added to their list within 30 days while Fairfax football writer Jake Niall said today the 32-year-old will almost certainly wear the orange guernsey again next year.

Niall said given the footage is three years old, combined with the Giants’ depleted roster after a horror trade period that saw them lose superstar midfielders Dylan Shiel and Tom Scully and ruck/forward Rory Lobb, will work in Mumford’s favour.

“More likely they will go ahead with their plan to keep him as a player,” Niall told SEN Breakfast. “From what I think will happen I think they will go ahead. One of the reasons is it was three years ago not three weeks ago.

“In the end it’s most likely they will go ahead, bearing in mind it was three years ago, bearing in mind he has a contract with the club, albeit as a staffer.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/sh...r/news-story/706a83f8fbcd0752a83f690dd0ddbd0d

 

[Danny88]

Actually there is an admission in the clubs statement. Those discussions could be vented in court. Hard to deny in the context of the press release.

Attached us an extract from a book on NSW drug law fringe the NSW Library :-


"Some of the most common drug offences are for possession, use and supply of prohibited drugs. Each drug offence has specific legal 'elements' which the prosecution must prove beyond reasonable doubt. In this section, we examine the necessary legal elements for the offence of use. These elements are established by the terms of the legislation, as interpreted by precedent court decisions.

Using an illegal drug (also known as 'self-administration') is an offence under section 12 of the Drug Misuse and Trafficking Act 1985 (NSW). The police must prove that the substance consumed was a prohibited drug. Obviously they cannot analyse the substance if it has been completely consumed, and blood tests can only be taken by a doctor after arrest. So for most convictions they must rely on admissions made by the accused."

Clearly an admission is sufficient for a prosecution as you said.

Read the statement again. There is no admission. The word cocaine is never used- the wording is very deliberate

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

Interesting to see how many media outlets are suggesting that its likely we will still pick up Mumford as a player.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/sh...r/news-story/706a83f8fbcd0752a83f690dd0ddbd0d

It's a dilemma for the club I think.

Mummy is entitled to have the matter dealt with without delay and the be allowed to move on. He is a club stalwart and deserves his place in the club's short history

On the other hand we're a new club marketing itself as family friendly, and significantly through junior development. I do now get your point about the Whitfield saga. The optics matter. The club is more important than any player.

Tough decision.

 

[captainMyCaptain]

It's a dilemma for the club I think.

Mummy is entitled to have the matter dealt with without delay and the be allowed to move on. He is a club stalwart and deserves his place in the club's short history

On the other hand we're a new club marketing itself as family friendly, and significantly through junior development. I do now get your point about the Whitfield saga. The optics matter. The club is more important than any player.

Tough decision.

Assuming the club is still keen for him to play then I would think the outcome will be that he receives ongoing welfare support, a playing contract but would get the chop as the ruck coach.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

Read the statement again. There is no admission. The word cocaine is never used- the wording is very deliberate

You dont need to use the word. I'd be very comfortable saying that is evidence he made an admission of cocaine use. It would be very hard to argue the club was extremely disappointed the room was untidy.

I dont think you've read what I said though. I dont necessarily disagree with drafting him, and have already said I dont believe he needs fyrther punishment. I readily accept he's going through a terrible time. It would take a lot more than a line of coke before I turned on him.

I don't agree with the law not being enforced, that's a matter of personal conviction.

 

[captainMyCaptain]

A slight update

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-10-10/unsigned-your-clubs-outofcontract-players

 

[Giant Strides]

Interesting. And still nothing on Tim Mohr - not in that story on uncontracted players but not formally advised yet as delisted?

 

[combaning]

I think Mummy might be sending Jack Watts a Christmas card this year

 

[captainMyCaptain]

Welcome Aboard!

Looks sharp

 

[Danny88]

Welcome Aboard!

Looks sharp

Looks raw but like a super athlete

Good goal in the video

 

[coniglio_number1]

First Irish recruit?

Setanta?

 

[dlanod]

First Irish recruit?

Setanta?

Corr?

But I'm sure we all know what they mean.

 

[Andre the Giant]

How did he get a 2 year contract last time? He should be on 1 year max and only if nothing better is available. Seems a popular character but is a terribly basic player.

If Leon plays him ahead of guys like Bonar and Daniels again it will be beyond embarrassing.

 

[captainMyCaptain]

THE AFL has released the list of 150 players involved in a revamped AFL Academy, including players eligible for the 2019 and 2020 draft.
As revealed byfoxfooty.com.au in April, the AFL had planned to radically overhaul the academy and to focus on state-based academies.
The expanded NAB AFL Academy Program will now see 150 players engaged in high performance camps conducted across five talent regions; Vic Country, Vic Metro, South Australia, Western Australia and Allies (New South Wales/Australian Capital Territory, Tasmania, Queensland and the Northern Territory).
The academies will come together for their first camp in the following weeks.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/af...s/news-story/275616acd755635295f17b5ca3dd42dd

Giant Academy Members in the Program:
Liam Delahunty (GWS Giants/Coolamon
Tom Green (GWS Giants/Marist
Matt McGrory (GWS Giants/Gungahlin

 

[Andre the Giant]

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/af...s/news-story/275616acd755635295f17b5ca3dd42dd

Giant Academy Members in the Program:
Liam Delahunty (GWS Giants/Coolamon
Tom Green (GWS Giants/Marist
Matt McGrory (GWS Giants/Gungahlin

Great to see you posting regularly again Captain

 

[fridgeman]

it will be interesting to see the development of Brown and where he plays and with his size 189/91 I can see him playing forward while he works on his fitness and he does look like an exciting prospect but it will be interesting what impact it has on the list status of Tiziani and also if they will draft Walker as the 3 are similar players although maybe the club will only take the 2 Academy players depending on where a bid comes in for Walker
The list at the moment is 32/7 but likely 34/5 with Lloyd and Reid upgrades so I can see 2 more spots opening up on the main list and I am undecided as to if Mumford is picked up in the main or rookie draft either way i see one of he or Simpson on the rookie list