2019 United Kingdom Election CONSERVATIVE WIN

[Ned_Flanders]

The thing with rees mogg types, is they are all about the rule of law, except when its not convenient for them
So it was common sense for those people to ignore authorities (fire brigade)and evacuate the building?

But most of the victims were refugees apparently.
Was it common sense when those people evacuated war zones and bent the rules to get to a better place.?

Surely they should be commended in that sense

the annoying thing was they covered this at the time. for years the training has been exac the floor and fire, and x floors above and below, so the fire escapes dont get completely clogged up with freaked out people.

unfortunately the scaffolding igniting meant the normal fire pattern in these kind of fires was a non starter

pretty pathetic when any politician of any ilk works to exploit something like this for politicial gain

 

[Pessimistic]

Mogg would have expected a whole fire brigade dedicated just saving his arse

 

[its free real estate]

Rees Mogg is pretty full of himself for a member of the nouveau riche.

 

[NSWCROW]

 

[Patrick Bullet]

People who are primarily concerned about material matters from the working class are of the left. Larpers from the professional-managerial class who feign concern about marginalised minorities are not, more a kind of noblesse oblige.

Okay I think we're using left differently. I was talking about progressive Vs conservative.

 

[NSWCROW]

 

[Sainteric]

Bad as the deputy leader of the labour party resigning?

Didn't think so.

Tom was a decent guy who stood up to Corbyn's anti semitism.

 

[its free real estate]

the annoying thing was they covered this at the time. for years the training has been exac the floor and fire, and x floors above and below, so the fire escapes dont get completely clogged up with freaked out people.

unfortunately the scaffolding igniting meant the normal fire pattern in these kind of fires was a non starter

pretty pathetic when any politician of any ilk works to exploit something like this for politicial gain

Are you implying prescribed advice from experts actually led to more deaths than people following their natural inclinations?

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Are you implying prescribed advice from experts actually led to more deaths than people following their natural inclinations?

Yep. It was a failure to anticipate how the cladding would react under a large scale fire, and this was because the testing standards we unfortunately designed with weaknesses because of this.

 

[its free real estate]

Yep. It was a failure to anticipate how the cladding would react under a large scale fire, and this was because the testing standards we unfortunately designed with weaknesses because of this.

And here I was thinking rubes don’t listen to experts enough!

 

[Ned_Flanders]

And here I was thinking rubes don’t listen to experts enough!

Not sure why you keep trying to make this political. This is an issue across multiple countries, of govts of all persuasions, most of whom followed the accepted international standards . The problem was the standards, and those who designed them not anticipating cladding would be used to such a degree in large multistory buildings.

It's rare, but this does happen from time to time (where a significant unforeseeable use blindsides safety testing)

 

[its free real estate]

Not sure why you keep trying to make this political. This is an issue across multiple countries, of govts of all persuasions, most of whom followed the accepted international standards . The problem was the standards, and those who designed them not anticipating cladding would be used to such a degree in large multistory buildings.

It's rare, but this does happen from time to time (where a significant unforeseeable use blindsides safety testing)

Not really that rare is it - the same advice caused hundreds of deaths in Victoria in 2009. It was so bad they changed the advice.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Not really that rare is it - the same advice caused hundreds of deaths in Victoria in 2009. It was so bad they changed the advice.

There are thousands of standards, both national and international, that we use daily. Failure in the use assumptions behind a standard is pretty rare, because standards committees comprise of technicians/engineers, advocacy groups, industry, and govt. That usually means you get a good representation of how a product is perceived by the consumer and therefore used .

 

[Bomberboyokay]

 

[its free real estate]

There are thousands of standards, both national and international, that we use daily. Failure in the use assumptions behind a standard is pretty rare, because standards committees comprise of technicians/engineers, advocacy groups, industry, and govt. That usually means you get a good representation of how a product is perceived by the consumer and therefore used .

Technical standards are very different. They are extensively tested. If you know the tensile strength of steel you know its failure modes.

Expert recommendations on fire safety don’t seem to have done as good a job.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Technical standards are very different. They are extensively tested. If you know the tensile strength of steel you know its failure modes.

Expert recommendations on fire safety don’t seem to have done as good a job.

Wrong

Technical standards are about simulation. Tensile strength is just one example of this.

For flammability tests, you essentially have a sample of the item exposed to a certain type of flame for a fixed period of time, and then it needs to smolder out when the flame is removed.

The cladding passed this testing, because if needed to have flame above certain temps to maintain a burn. The test failure was with a massive amount of cladding, the total heat fed itself higher than expected meaning it couldn't cool down to smolder out

That failure was due to the lab test not anticipating how much cladding would be used in a single structure, and how it would effect temps

 

[its free real estate]

Wrong

Technical standards are about simulation. Tensile strength is just one example of this.

For flammability tests, you essentially have a sample of the item exposed to a certain type of flame for a fixed period of time, and then it needs to smolder out when the flame is removed.

The cladding passed this testing, because if needed to have flame above certain temps to maintain a burn. The test failure was with a massive amount of cladding, the total heat fed itself higher than expected meaning it couldn't cool down to smolder out

That failure was due to the lab test not anticipating how much cladding would be used in a single structure, and how it would effect temps

We’re not talking about the flammability of cladding. We’re talking about expert recommendations to stay put in a burning building.

 

[Father Jack]

We’re not talking about the flammability of cladding. We’re talking about expert recommendations to stay put in a burning building.

Isn't one directly related to the other in this case?

 

[Ned_Flanders]

We’re not talking about the flammability of cladding. We’re talking about expert recommendations to stay put in a burning building.

And that goes back to the cladding. Buildings have been designed to limit the size a fire will grow, meaning it's safer for people to stay rather than evacuate.

The cladding failing to halt the spread (and instead fueled it), making a core assumption around the viability of the evacuation plan useless.

 

[its free real estate]

And that goes back to the cladding. Buildings have been designed to limit the size a fire will grow, meaning it's safer for people to stay rather than evacuate.

The cladding failing to halt the spread (and instead fueled it), making a core assumption around the viability of the evacuation plan useless.

What does cladding have to do with the advice prior to the Victorian bushfires in 2009, that residents are best off to stay and defend?

 

[Ned_Flanders]

What does cladding have to do with the advice prior to the Victorian bushfires in 2009, that residents are best off to stay and defend?

Nothing, which is why I never referred to the bushfires here. It's a completely different fire situation

 

[NSWCROW]

Bad as the deputy leader of the labour party resigning?

Didn't think so.

Tom was a decent guy who stood up to Corbyn's anti semitism.

yoUr gUy qUiTtiNg iS wOrSe thAn mY gUy

 

[its free real estate]

Nothing, which is why I never referred to the bushfires here. It's a completely different fire situation

It was heeding incorrect advice in what to do in a fire situation that saw people killed. That’s the issue.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

It was heeding incorrect advice in what to do in a fire situation that saw people killed. That’s the issue.

It's a common outcome, but the root cause is completely different.

Too often people focus on the surface issue and not the root cause of the original problem.

Anyway we are way off topic now, back to the election

 

[Pessimistic]

Nothing new anyway. in the bradford city fire those who followed fire exit signs found locked exits and an inferno behind them. those who invaded the pictch risking a fine survived