2020 AFL Crowds & Ratings Thread

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The_Wookie

Queenslander
Jul 2, 2010
33,523
31,284
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For me, numbers are the more meaningful and way more important measure and, though they were good, they did not beat 2016. Others have said the same thing(Caroline Wilson).

share is great. fantastic. but shows like this always get a huge share. The NRL got 50% prime time share last night. . The aus open in 2017 got 55% for its 2.6 mil(which went 4 hours, despite having the season premiere of a celebrity show on another channel for 1.1m).
Theres huge share and then theres the biggest network and channel shares ever recorded by OZtam in prime time.

I mean, I know it is a prime time(6-12) measure and that is important for the big wigs, but a Saturday afternoon final would also dominate audience share, perhaps even more. (yes, 91.2% for 2016 for its timeslot*)
The overall numbers are smaller for day time television, soi while the audience share is bigger, networks still prefer night time - which is why when Seven dumped broadcast games, they were saturday afternoons first, sunday afternoons second.

Ok they didnt beat 2016 - although they did beat it in every metro market except Adelaide, but i mean its all Lockdown lockdown lockdown right? - and fell just 61,000 short of the mark without the well wishers hoping on the doggies.

2020 had a bigger reach audience - the 2016 grand final had 6.5m to the 2020 Grand finals 7.5m, but lower peak audience (4.01 to 5.6)
 

Rob

Brownlow Medallist
Nov 8, 2000
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South of the river
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Only 1.7 Million behind the AFL in the Capital Cities
Yes, I read you the first time.

5 city metro comparison was 2.9m to 2.1m. Not sure adding Hobart and Canberra in there would add an extra 900k in the AFL's favour.

Are you comparing the AFL's national figure to the NRL 5 city figure?
 

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RussellEbertHandball

Flick pass expert
Nov 16, 2004
64,108
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This was written on the eve of the 2018 GF. 2001 was OzTAM's first year of ratings systems being used. Drawn GF + Replay in 2010 is why they talk about 18 GF's before 2018 was played.


In the 18 Grand Finals held since OzTAM administered FTA TV ratings data in 2001, Collingwood has played in five Grand Finals (including two in 2010 when they had to return a week later for a replay).

In that same period West Coast has fronted up for three. The West Coast Eagles 2005 match against Sydney Swans saw them play in front of the biggest TV crowd in those 17 years.

That clash between clubs from Perth and Sydney had a combined metro and regional TV audience of 4,443,000. The Perth audience that year was 511,000, but not as big as the following year when the two teams faced off again in the Grand Final – 549,000. The Perth audience cracked half a million one more time in 2013 – 503,000 – when Hawthorn played Fremantle.

The biggest Sydney crowd watching an AFL Grand Final was 991,000 in the 2005 match against West Coast. The following year when both teams were again in battle the number dropped to 759,000.

Sydney has subsequently started in three of the six most-recent Grand Finals, with the audiences dropping to 609,000, 551,000 and 534,000.

Biggest TV crowd for AFL Grand Final

2005: 4,443,000 (Metro 3,386,000, Regional 1,057,000)


The biggest audience watching a Collingwood Grand Final was 4,200,000 in 2003 when they played Brisbane Lions, who were in four successive Grand Finals (and won three of them including this one, which gave them the Threepeat).

Five times in the past 18 Grand Finals the combined national audience passed 4,000,000 average viewers the most recent in 2016 for the Bulldogs v Sydney. Sydney played in four of those five matches.

In those years the metro viewing audience has passed 3,000,000 three times, the most recent also in 2016 for the Bulldogs v Sydney game.

The biggest regional audience was 1,234,000 for the Collingwood v Brisbane game in 2003. The regional audiences have passed 1,000,000 five times, the last time also for that Bulldogs v Sydney match.
 
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NoobPie

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 21, 2016
6,473
4,475
AFL Club
Collingwood
This was written on the eve of the 2018 GF. 2001 was OzTAM's first year of ratings systems being used. Drawn GF + Replay in 2010 is why they talk about 18 GF's before 2018 was played.


In the 18 Grand Finals held since OzTAM administered FTA TV ratings data in 2001, Collingwood has played in five Grand Finals (including two in 2010 when they had to return a week later for a replay).

In that same period West Coast has fronted up for three. The West Coast Eagles 2005 match against Sydney Swans saw them play in front of the biggest TV crowd in those 17 years.

That clash between clubs from Perth and Sydney had a combined metro and regional TV audience of 4,443,000. The Perth audience that year was 511,000, but not as big as the following year when the two teams faced off again in the Grand Final – 549,000. The Perth audience cracked half a million one more time in 2013 – 503,000 – when Hawthorn played Fremantle.

The biggest Sydney crowd watching an AFL Grand Final was 991,000 in the 2005 match against West Coast. The following year when both teams were again in battle the number dropped to 759,000.

Sydney has subsequently started in three of the six most-recent Grand Finals, with the audiences dropping to 609,000, 551,000 and 534,000.

Biggest TV crowd for AFL Grand Final

2005: 4,443,000 (Metro 3,386,000, Regional 1,057,000)


The biggest audience watching a Collingwood Grand Final was 4,200,000 in 2003 when they played Brisbane Lions, who were in four successive Grand Finals (and won three of them including this one, which gave them the Threepeat).

Five times in the past 18 Grand Finals the combined national audience passed 4,000,000 average viewers the most recent in 2016 for the Bulldogs v Sydney. Sydney played in four of those five matches.

In those years the metro viewing audience has passed 3,000,000 three times, the most recent also in 2016 for the Bulldogs v Sydney game.

The biggest regional audience was 1,234,000 for the Collingwood v Brisbane game in 2003. The regional audiences have passed 1,000,000 five times, the last time also for that Bulldogs v Sydney match.

So last weeks grandfinal, between two Melbourne clubs, was the biggest TV audience this century not including the Swans or Lions.
 

Walshawk

Club Legend
Mar 24, 2017
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Those people still weren't counted this year ffs. People making this comment really must not understand how ratings data is collected.
Huh? Which part of my post is incorrect - that because 100k could not attand, they were probably watching on TV, or that those who would usually be a the pub might also watch it at home?
 

Teen Wolf

Premiership Player
Jul 5, 2011
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Melbourne
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Huh? Which part of my post is incorrect - that because 100k could not attand, they were probably watching on TV, or that those who would usually be a the pub might also watch it at home?
The implication that those two factors have any impact on the ratings figure is incorrect. Or, at the very least, there's no way you could know it to be true.

It doesn't matter what those 100k people are doing each year unless they live in one of the ~1,500 Melbourne households that has a ratings meter... so why are you bringing them up?
 

BringBackTorps

Club Legend
Jan 5, 2017
2,366
1,472
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1. Despite Melbourne being in lockdown, despite 70,000 unable to attend the GF (but c. 70,000 increase in viewer nos.), & huge "Qld. unique GF" hype in Qld., the 2020 Night GF did not outrate the 2016 GF!

Morgan Polls more accurately calculate total viewer nos. for the GF- as they can incorporate those who are watching in the multitude of mass-viewing locations ie home BBQ's/parties, pubs, bars, GR Club BBQ's etc.
The 2017 GF Morgan Poll showed a total (but only counting those 18+) of 10.2m: 8.4m watched the game; further 1.8m watched only the post game highlights.

Prospects for a night GF are very low now- the opposition is too widespread, is increasing, & probably irreversible; pro day-GF arguments undeniable.



2. The strong desire to retain the day GF appears to be gaining further momentum, among upper echelons of the AFL, & AFL players.

"Richmond President P. O'Neal becomes the latest AFL figure to condemn night Grand Final". She said players want to retain the day GF, one reason being given is it makes it much easier for them to celebrate with the fans after the game. A night GF makes this much more onerous.

T. Cotchin, L. Matthews, T. Shaw & D. Fletcher also said in last few days they want to retain the day GF.

WWOS C. De Silva 27.10




3. The Herald Sun survey 2 days ago (again corroborating every, AFAIK, other survey by any organisation: a big majority want to retain a day GF) "...has found almost 80% preferred to stick to tradition of an afternoon Grand final. Just 7% of respondents favoured a night event...".

(Behind a paywall- can anyone open, & post here)



4. This 2018 article from The Roar mentions:-

. the AFLPA has voted, in 2017 & 2018, with a 75% majority, to retain the day GF! Only 3% of players want a night GF.

. Many GR Clubs want to retain the day GF, as it facilitates their traditional Club BBQ's, kicking & handball comps., functions etc.
(Which also attract persons who are not directly connected to the GR club; & being well patronised, helps the bar/food/raffle takings! Improves the intangible sense that GR Clubs are part of the community).

."...Supporters will also be disadvantaged...because many host functions during the day. They're real family affairs, but they wouldn't be able to hold these picnics & lunches if the big dance were to start at night".

. " The AFL must not forget the kids. They want to watch... it would be a shame if they had to miss even a part of it because it finished late".

. "when the dew sets in, the footy is bad to watch". A slippery ball results in a worse spectacle, with more scrappy play/fumbling etc.- but this is the AFL's showcase event!

. E. Wood said players loved the tradition of the GF being played in the warmer, late Sept. daytime, with a red Sherrin.




5. abc.net A. Nicholson 26.10

Nicholson wants the day GF to remain, & said

"The traditional timeslot has led to important cultural traditions that have made Grand Final day a cherished date on the calendar. It has long been an occasion for bringing people together. Friends & families gathering for BBQ's, kids running around, footballs flying in backyards, & gardens trampled during half time kick-to-kick. A night Grand Final...risks becoming less inclusive, with kids the unfortunate casualties (all my emphases)".



6. According to respected ABC TV Journalist A. Kohler 2 weeks ago, re the finances of sport in Australia "...sports became overstaffed & overpaid".

Many believe the AFL has been overstaffed, overpaid, greedy & incompetent. The AFL are the self-proclaimed keeper of the code.
In Vic., WA, SA, & Tas., however, they have presided, in recent decades, in a significant loss of market share in GR AF male club & school competition nos, cf strong growth in soccer & basketball. Per capita AFL crowds have declined in Vic., WA, SA (in Tas., in raw nos. also), cf VFL & VFA, SANFL, WAFL, & TSL.
The day GF is an AF cultural phenomenon. Not even the AFL could "spin" a decision to move to a night GF, so widespread is the opposition to it.
 
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Kwality

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 14, 2011
29,565
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Every year since 1999 (in fact every year bar 2 since 1991) the AFL has received more media rights income annually than any other sport in the country, origin or not. Thats established fact. And not one based on 3 or 4 games a year, but on delivering 4.5m average viewers a week (about 1m more per week than the NRL average) and with a reach almost 50% higher than the average NRL, delivering in the right demographics, delivering in the right time slots, delivering in non match areas, such as regular viewers to footy discussion shows and other addons, as well as news lead ins.

hell a couple of years ago RADIO rights for the AFL were 8 TIMES what the NRL was getting.
& then the NRL have Origin
 

Our Game

Club Legend
Sep 30, 2014
2,588
1,477
Sandringham
AFL Club
Geelong
1. Despite Melbourne being in lockdown, despite 100,000 unable to attend the GF (but would increase viewer nos.), & huge "Qld. unique GF" hype in Qld., the 2020 Night GF did not outrate the 2016 GF!

Morgan Polls more accurately calculate total GF viewer nos., as they can incorporate those who are watching in mass-viewing locations- home BBQ's/parties, pubs, bars, GR Club BBQ's etc.
The 2017 GF Morgan Poll showed a total (but only counting those 18+) of 10.2m: 8.4m watched the game; further 1.8m watched only the post game highlights.

Prospects for a night GF are very low now- the opposition is too widespread, undeniable., & probably irreversible.



2. The strong desire to retain the day GF appears to be gaining further momentum, among upper echelons of the AFL, & AFL players.

"Richmond President P. O'Neal becomes the latest AFL figure to condemn night Grand Final". She said players want to retain the day GF, one reason being given is it makes it much easier for them to celebrate with the fans after the game. A night GF makes this much more onerous.

T. Cotchin, L. Matthews, T. Shaw & D. Fletcher also said in last few days they want to retain the day GF.

WWOS C. De Silva 27.10




3. The Herald Sun survey 2 days ago (again supporting, AFAIK, every other survey by any organisation: a big majority want to retain a day GF) "...has found almost 80% preferred to stick to tradition of an afternoon Grand final. Just 7% of respondents favoured a night event...".


(Behind a paywall- can anyone open, & post here)



4. This 2018 article from The Roar mentions:-

. the AFLPA has voted, in 2017 & 2018, with a 75% majority, to retain the day GF. Only 3% of players want a night GF!

. Many GR Clubs want to retain the day GF, as it facilitates their traditional Club BBQ's, kicking & handball comps. etc.
(Which also attract persons who are not directly connected to the GR club- well patronised, & helps the bar takings! Improves the sense that GR Clubs are part of the community).

."...Supporters will also be disadvantaged...because many host functions during the day. They're real family affairs, but they wouldn't be able to hold these picnics & lunches if the big dance were to start at night".

. " The AFL must not forget the kids. They want to watch... it would be a shame if they had to miss even a part of it because it finished late".

. "when the dew sets in, the footy is bad to watch". A slippery ball results in a worse spectacle, with more scrappy play/fumbling etc.- but this is AF's showcase even!

. E. Wood said players loved the tradition of the GF being played in the warmer, late Sept. daytime, with a red Sherrin.




5. abc.net A. Nicholson 26.10

Nicholson wants the day GF to remain, & said

"The traditional timeslot has led to important cultural traditions that have made Grand Final day a cherished date on the calendar. It has long been an occasion for bringing people together. Friends & families gathering for BBQ's, kids running around, footballs flying in backyards, & gardens trampled during half time kick-to-kick. A night Grand Final...risks becoming less inclusive, with kids the unfortunate casualties (all my emphases)".



6. According to ABC Journalist A. Kohler recently in Australia, "...sports became overstaffed & overpaid".

Many believe the AFL has been overstaffed, overpaid, greedy & incompetent. The AFL are the self-proclaimed keeper of the code- but, in Vic., WA, SA, & Tas., they have presided over a significant loss of market share in GR AF male club & school competition nos, cf soccer & basketball.
The day GF is an AF cultural phenomenon. Not even the AFL could "spin" a decision to move to a night GF, so widespread is the opposition to it.
They can and they will Money talks and BS walks!
Twilight next year for me then slowly sliding into a full night GF when the next TV deal is done!
 

The_Wookie

Queenslander
Jul 2, 2010
33,523
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& then the NRL have Origin
Its not an "and then the NRL have Origin" at all. Origin is very specifically included in the NRL media rights package. And the AFL still beats it hands down every goddamn year since 1993 (except 2)

And they dont get as much in overall sponsorship dollars either. I know you pride yourself in not having the AFL blinkers on, but this is a damn stretch.
 

Gigantor

Brownlow Medallist
May 13, 2012
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5,148
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I remember seeing some sponsorship revenue numbers a few years back.
The AFL was way, way out in front and daylight was second.
The extraordinary bit was that the NRL was only marginally ahead of the barely noticeable A-League.
In fact, I would hazard a guess that looking at club land, the Melbourne Victory's sponsorship revenue would be right up there with some of the bigger NRL clubs.
 

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threenewpadlocks

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 10, 2012
11,092
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Its not an "and then the NRL have Origin" at all. Origin is very specifically included in the NRL media rights package. And the AFL still beats it hands down every goddamn year since 1993 (except 2)

And they dont get as much in overall sponsorship dollars either. I know you pride yourself in not having the AFL blinkers on, but this is a damn stretch.
It's probably worth noting that the AFL is a "richer" sport in part because it's more concentrated among the 5 capital cities, creating a bit of a divergence among the actual number of fans, and the value of such fans. The average person living in Melbourne or Perth clearly is worth more to sponsors than the average person living in regional QLD and NSW like Bundaberg or Maitland, simply because the people living in capital cities have more money on average than those that don't.

Dumb argument, but there is difference in people arguing what sports are "richer" and "more popular". Golf is worth a lot because the typical fan has a lot of money, even if total number of fans across the world (who follow the PGA tour etc.) is quite low.
 

Walshawk

Club Legend
Mar 24, 2017
1,953
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Blackburn
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Hawthorn
The implication that those two factors have any impact on the ratings figure is incorrect. Or, at the very least, there's no way you could know it to be true.

It doesn't matter what those 100k people are doing each year unless they live in one of the ~1,500 Melbourne households that has a ratings meter... so why are you bringing them up?
Disagree. Statistically, don’t those people have as much chance as anyone of being someone who has a ratings meter?So if they are watching this year because they can’t go out, the ratings go up. What you are saying makes no sense.
 

RedV3x

Club Legend
Dec 14, 2015
2,561
592
AFL Club
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Statistically, don’t those people have as much chance as anyone of being someone who has a ratings meter?
No. Ratings meters are only placed in families of reasonable size (of at least four).
This is so they minimise costs.( least meters for maximum coverage)
So only a small percentage of a typical 100k crowd will be potentially picked up.
Ratings meters are only placed in couch-potato families typically too lethargic to get up and go.
 

Our Game

Club Legend
Sep 30, 2014
2,588
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AFL Club
Geelong
No. Ratings meters are only placed in families of reasonable size (of at least four).
This is so they minimise costs.( least meters for maximum coverage)
So only a small percentage of a typical 100k crowd will be potentially picked up.
Ratings meters are only placed in couch-potato families typically too lethargic to get up and go.
Yes the meters can only give an estimate.
Foxtel has sort of accurate figures as they know how many sets are turned on but not how many people are watching at a prticular time.
 

RedV3x

Club Legend
Dec 14, 2015
2,561
592
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Yes the meters can only give an estimate.
Foxtel has sort of accurate figures as they know how many sets are turned on but not how many people are watching at a prticular time.
Foxtel and streaming services can tell you the number of subscribers active but then they estimate additional watchers.
Ratings agencies use large families to get their ratios up and placement is always questionable.
This detracts from estimates of absolute numbers but it does show trends quite well.
Whenever there is an improvement in ratings monitoring systems then fringe programs do better and popular programs do less.
Like other systems they have little way of knowing who is watching the screen.
 

Rob

Brownlow Medallist
Nov 8, 2000
29,419
16,250
South of the river
AFL Club
Fremantle
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Peel Thunder
No. Ratings meters are only placed in families of reasonable size (of at least four).
This is so they minimise costs.( least meters for maximum coverage)
So only a small percentage of a typical 100k crowd will be potentially picked up.
Ratings meters are only placed in couch-potato families typically too lethargic to get up and go.
I'm not sure that's true, as that would skew the data significantly.
It would also give advertisers no insight into singles and dinks, as well as retirees.
 

RussellEbertHandball

Flick pass expert
Nov 16, 2004
64,108
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No. Ratings meters are only placed in families of reasonable size (of at least four).
This is so they minimise costs.( least meters for maximum coverage)
So only a small percentage of a typical 100k crowd will be potentially picked up.
Ratings meters are only placed in couch-potato families typically too lethargic to get up and go.
That's crap. You just made that up. Its not reality.

Reality is that a proper sample of any population, has to have decent stratification otherwise its a meaningless sample. Advertisers wont pay high ad rates based on info collected from incorrect sampled data.

Have a listen to the 14 minute interview of this older lady living on her own in Sydney interviewed by TV Blackbox in September 2019 and embedded in the story.


As I sit down to have a cup of tea and some biscuits with Jenny (not her real name), I notice a strange looking box sitting next to her television. The letter “A” is displayed on the bright green screen. This is the reason for my visit today – I am going to experience what it’s like to be a viewer with a ratings box.

Jenny has one of the 1,475 ratings boxes in Sydney’s metropolitan area. Across the 5 cap cities there are 5,250 boxes in the homes of people who fall into various demographics. The viewing choices made by these people determine whether a show is considered a success or failure.

“I’ve got a designated letter, that represents me, so I am actually A, because I’m the main owner, but if I have a visitor, I have to add the person in, so I put in B, and I put down the age they are, and whether they’re male or female.
 

manicmagpie

A slice of fried gold
Jul 2, 2003
4,238
9,098
Melbourne
AFL Club
Collingwood
I think I've posted this before on here but - a few years ago my partner got contacted at random to potentially get one of the ratings boxes. We said we'd be interested and so they went through a reasonably lengthy phone interview about the demographics of the household.

That was all fair enough, but then there was a whole series of questions on our current viewing habits, including estimating how long we spent watching the commercial channels vs ABC/SBS and also Foxtel, and what types of programs we typically watched.

This astonished me, as surely those things are the variables they are supposed to be measuring through the box. There could be no reason to ask these questions when determining who gets a box unless they are stacking the 'random selection' with people who are already leaning in a particular direction.
 

RussellEbertHandball

Flick pass expert
Nov 16, 2004
64,108
93,771
SE Oz
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
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The Mighty Blacks
I think I've posted this before on here but - a few years ago my partner got contacted at random to potentially get one of the ratings boxes. We said we'd be interested and so they went through a reasonably lengthy phone interview about the demographics of the household.

That was all fair enough, but then there was a whole series of questions on our current viewing habits, including estimating how long we spent watching the commercial channels vs ABC/SBS and also Foxtel, and what types of programs we typically watched.

This astonished me, as surely those things are the variables they are supposed to be measuring through the box. There could be no reason to ask these questions when determining who gets a box unless they are stacking the 'random selection' with people who are already leaning in a particular direction.
Or they are trying to stratify the sample selection to be more reflective of the population.

If over the years they have worked out 20% of couples between 25-40 in your city/state, watch mainly ABC/SBS, they want 20% of couples with the boxes in your city/state to be mainly ABC/SBS viewers to see if they change their habits during the period they have the box.

That gives more reliable data to commercial stations who can then point to advertisers something like - Program x caused approx 6.2% of ABC/SBS viewers to swap over to watch, so when we sell our next chunk of advertising space to you during that program we will charge you Y% more because those ABC/SBS types have moved over.

They also put viewers into A,B,C,D categories that reflect their economic and educational demographics. So they want a true representative of those type of viewers. Those who fall into the A's tend to disproportionately watch ABC/SBS. If Advertisers want to get to more of them, then they need to know what shows they are watching and what they might switch to on the commercial stations, to spend their money on those programs they are regularly watching or have recently switched to watching.

This stuff has been around for 60 years so its become a pretty sophisticated process.

When they went from Nielsen's rating system of filling out a book to the set top box top data collection, they found a less people were watching TV. They are consistently refining their data collection methods which includes the people they select to sample.
 

RedV3x

Club Legend
Dec 14, 2015
2,561
592
AFL Club
Fremantle
You just made that up. Its not reality.
No. My family was the recipient of a box once.
Also I had a friend in the business who explained the reality.

Reality is that a proper sample of any population,
Replace "reality" with "perception".
eatings are highly flawed, but they're the best we've got.
They do pick up trends but are far from being accurate.
Advertisers aren't that smart - they've been largely conned by by the digital media as to it's effectiveness.
Television is still the most effective way to get your message across.
 

RedV3x

Club Legend
Dec 14, 2015
2,561
592
AFL Club
Fremantle
Across the 5 cap cities there are 5,250 boxes in the homes of people who fall into various demographics. .
So 5,250 boxes might survey 20,000 people or less than 0.1% of the population.
One survey person represents more than 1,000 people.
A fully loaded box represents at least 25,000 people.

Television ratings are an incestuous business. Television stations, advertisers and ratings agencies ALL want good ratings.
They all want to believe that people are watching popular programs on commercial television.
People watching the ABC, SBS, recorded media and those outside the demographics are of no interest.
 

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