List Mgmt. 2020 Draft (December 9) discussion thread

[dlanod]

Our currently owned picks:

24 - Blake Coleman
43 - Harry Sharp
48 - Henry Smith

Our currently owned 2021 picks:

1st (MEL), 1st (BRI), 3rd (WCE), 3rd (BRI), 4th (MEL), 4th (COL), 5th (BRI)

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

Gibbs, what are the odds of being pick 1 twice? New record?

Similar to the odds of going pick one and not playing a game.

 

[briztoon]

Some good or bad things to say?

All positive. High rate of improvement, etc etc. Pretty much everything that’s been reported by the ADC team, who must have been standing next to the Vic Metro coach during the Oakleigh v Sandringham preseason match.

 

[briztoon]

I wonder if we had some local feedback from our new assist coach i.e. ex Glenelg senior coach

How much time would he have put in to an oppositions U18 team?

 

[spotthedog1]

My summary:
- Really quiet off-season for us. Whether or not we improve or deteriorate as a result of this off-season basically comes down to Daniher.
- 2020 draft was not highly rated across the board, and we traded out to next year again. Makes sense with Covid hitting, that many of these players have had reduced development due to missing an entire year. I also wouldn't be surprised to see 2021 end up weaker, as a chunk of them have missed their junior year.
- Collingwood screwed us at the draft, and we did as well as we could under the circumstances, but at the end of the day, we got beat. Thankfully, if there's any year to get beat at the draft, it's the weak draft you've mostly traded out of and don't really rate the potential.

All in all, this offseason looks like:
OUT:
2020 draft picks (+Port 1st, -Lions 2nd from 2019 trades) (plus other minor impacts)
Stef Martin
Witherden
Christensen, Hinge, Wooller, Cox
Staff - David Noble, Selwyn Griffiths

IN:
2021 pick upgrade (+Melb 1st, -Lions 2nd, + a 3rd and 4th)
Joe Daniher
Nakia Cockatoo

12

Nakia Cockatoo

Age

27

Ht

185cm

Wt

90kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.6

2star

K

6.1

2star

HB

3.5

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

3.1

5star

G

0.7

4star

No current season stats available

D

6.6

2star

K

3.4

2star

HB

3.2

3star

M

2.2

3star

T

2.4

4star

G

0.2

3star

Blake Coleman
Sharp, Smith

All in all, the picks work out similarly. I think we expected Port's first last year to be worth more than it was, and hopefully we do better out of the Melbourne one.

Stef Martin out isn't really a loss given his decline this year, but it's more the decline was quite a loss for us, and in the end he was overtake. Witho had a lot of potential, but all in all, even though I was keen on keeping him, I think most would agree that he was more likely a long-term solid citizen than a star player, and we have cover for that position.

Daniher and Cockatoo both could be boom or bust, time will tell. Coleman's a decent prospect, and the other two are long term speccy picks.

Internally, we should see improvement from a few, and a bit of age creeping up on a couple as well.

Basically, if Daniher performs, we come out ahead, and if he doesn't, we have paid a lot for a bust. If he does sorta OK, well then we really haven't moved, and realistically have probably gone backwards comparative to the pack, especially if you consider the staffing movements...

Complete off-season rating: C+

 

[Quigley]

How much time would he have put in to an oppositions U18 team?

His under 18 coach probably had a good idea though and would have good contacts generally in SA.

 

[JasRulz63]

He played the full year at U18 level in the SANFL, no reserves or senior football

Was this also the case with Shannon Neale in the WAFL?

 

[blueiris]

Question do we still have a free list spot or does Birchall count as our last spot considering he was drafted in the rookie draft

 

[briztoon]

It's definitely an underwhelming draft but we still have ESmith, Robertson and Joyce yet to get a decent run and Payne, Fullarton, TBerry and KColeman will get a chance to build on promising starts to their AFL career.

From my arm chair, as a numpty amateur, there weren’t many kids I was high on, still on board at our second pick.

I had genuinely forgotten about Harry Sharp, as I believed he was likely to go undrafted, and return as a 18/19 year old to the GWV rebels.

Obviously I was hoping for Eddie Ford, but my first thought was we should bid on Brandon Walker there.

After picking up Coleman, I thought it was unlikely we would consider Winder, especially as I remembered something that Steve Conole mentioned in last week’s Roar Deal, as we might have a similar kid in our academy for next year, though he’s more a hbf’er than a forward flanker.

 

[briztoon]

Was this also the case with Shannon Neale in the WAFL?

I believe Neale showed more in his rucking ability, but yeah, pretty similar.

I’ll always defer to Quigley opinion when it comes to assessing kids abilities and skills.

 

[dlanod]

Question do we still have a free list spot or does Birchall count as our last spot considering he was drafted in the rookie draft

We were already factoring in Birchall's recruitment. We passed on our last rookie spot, so we still have that free senior/rookie spot.

 

[briztoon]

Question do we still have a free list spot or does Birchall count as our last spot considering he was drafted in the rookie draft

We still have a free list spot I believe.

 

[Quigley]

For me I think we didn't have any glaring needs to fill so we took some high risk high reward types. The cost was pretty low in a very speculative draft so we did not have a lot to lose anyway. Apart from Coleman they were not the names I was hoping for but overall I thought the guys taken on paper look worth the picks.

 

[Dalions]

 

[LongLion]

How much time would he have put in to an oppositions U18 team?

Zero I would expect. Just thought maybe he had some local feedback. Was just a thought, nothing else.

 

[Panthera]

My summary:
- Really quiet off-season for us. Whether or not we improve or deteriorate as a result of this off-season basically comes down to Daniher.
- 2020 draft was not highly rated across the board, and we traded out to next year again. Makes sense with Covid hitting, that many of these players have had reduced development due to missing an entire year. I also wouldn't be surprised to see 2021 end up weaker, as a chunk of them have missed their junior year.
- Collingwood screwed us at the draft, and we did as well as we could under the circumstances, but at the end of the day, we got beat. Thankfully, if there's any year to get beat at the draft, it's the weak draft you've mostly traded out of and don't really rate the potential.

All in all, this offseason looks like:
OUT:
2020 draft picks (+Port 1st, -Lions 2nd from 2019 trades) (plus other minor impacts)
Stef Martin
Witherden
Christensen, Hinge, Wooller, Cox
Staff - David Noble, Selwyn Griffiths

IN:
2021 pick upgrade (+Melb 1st, -Lions 2nd, + a 3rd and 4th)
Joe Daniher
Nakia Cockatoo

12

Nakia Cockatoo

Age

27

Ht

185cm

Wt

90kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.6

2star

K

6.1

2star

HB

3.5

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

3.1

5star

G

0.7

4star

No current season stats available

D

6.6

2star

K

3.4

2star

HB

3.2

3star

M

2.2

3star

T

2.4

4star

G

0.2

3star

Blake Coleman
Sharp, Smith

All in all, the picks work out similarly. I think we expected Port's first last year to be worth more than it was, and hopefully we do better out of the Melbourne one.

Stef Martin out isn't really a loss given his decline this year, but it's more the decline was quite a loss for us, and in the end he was overtake. Witho had a lot of potential, but all in all, even though I was keen on keeping him, I think most would agree that he was more likely a long-term solid citizen than a star player, and we have cover for that position.

Daniher and Cockatoo both could be boom or bust, time will tell. Coleman's a decent prospect, and the other two are long term speccy picks.

Internally, we should see improvement from a few, and a bit of age creeping up on a couple as well.

Basically, if Daniher performs, we come out ahead, and if he doesn't, we have paid a lot for a bust. If he does sorta OK, well then we really haven't moved, and realistically have probably gone backwards comparative to the pack, especially if you consider the staffing movements...

Complete off-season rating: C+

That is a weird looking A

 

[jackess]

So we did prelist Michael. Great coverage AFL

Carter Michael is a Lion

Booming left boot defender joins the Den

www.lions.com.au

 

[Dylan12]

 

[briztoon]

So we did prelist Michael. Great coverage AFL

Carter Michael is a Lion

Booming left boot defender joins the Den

www.lions.com.au

Hmmm the Suns kids were listed in the rookie draft as academy preselections, wonder why Carter Michael wasn’t.

 

[Groo2]

Does this mean no more free spots?

 

[spotthedog1]

That is a weird looking A

If you push the C and the + together, it almost looks like a lower-case, cursive a.

Sorry, I actually started that summary thinking B-ish, then I got through the analysis and sorta went "gee... actually... if we exclude Daniher, and lined up the ins and outs (including draft picks), you wouldn't trade the ins for the outs."

Ends up looking like:
OUT 2x late 2020 R1 picks, Witho, Brisbane's 2021 R2
for
IN Melbourne's 2021 R1, Cockatoo, Coleman

With a few pick swaps (against us), and speculative draftees (for us). On that basis... I don't reckon it's a net gain... If you include Daniher, then it really depends on whether he gets back to form.

Still, we get another death ride, and that's always fun.

 

[pulpdriver]

Does this mean no more free spots?

Yep, now at max capacity of 44.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

If you push the C and the + together, it almost looks like a lower-case, cursive a.

Sorry, I actually started that summary thinking B-ish, then I got through the analysis and sorta went "gee... actually... if we exclude Daniher, and lined up the ins and outs (including draft picks), you wouldn't trade the ins for the outs."

Ends up looking like:
OUT 2x late 2020 R1 picks, Witho, Brisbane's 2021 R2
for
IN Melbourne's 2021 R1, Cockatoo, Coleman

With a few pick swaps (against us), and speculative draftees (for us). On that basis... I don't reckon it's a net gain... If you include Daniher, then it really depends on whether he gets back to form.

Still, we get another death ride, and that's always fun.

I see Knightmare (Doerre on ESPN site) gave us a C but then gave Richmond an A for drafting an overage speculative ruck in Sam Ryan and Maurice Rioli which he justified largely on two bases, first, that Rioli is one of the better small forwards in the draft (but not better than Blake Coleman according to any objective measure) and, two, because they traded out of the first round into next year's first round (not mentioning that we did as well). Interesting perspective.

 

[Dalions]

I see Knightmare (Doerre on ESPN site) gave us a C but then gave Richmond an A for drafting an overage speculative ruck in Sam Ryan and Maurice Rioli which he justified largely on two bases, first, that Rioli is one of the better small forwards in the draft (but not better than Blake Coleman according to any objective measure) and, two, because they traded out of the first round into next year's first round (not mentioning that we did as well). Interesting perspective.

#VFL

 

[Surly Boy]

I see Knightmare (Doerre on ESPN site) gave us a C but then gave Richmond an A for drafting an overage speculative ruck in Sam Ryan and Maurice Rioli which he justified largely on two bases, first, that Rioli is one of the better small forwards in the draft (but not better than Blake Coleman according to any objective measure) and, two, because they traded out of the first round into next year's first round (not mentioning that we did as well). Interesting perspective.

Or lack thereof...

 

[Dylan12]

Heath is reportedly a very good contested mark.

Draft Central interviewed the outgoing Sandringham Dragons coach on their utube channel, had a bit to say about Heath.

What did he say; I see neither Heath or Walsh were rookied? Surprised that he wasn't taken. I must admit, I am disappointed we took Smith over Heath and even Walsh.

Also, Cedric Cox

20

Cedric Cox

Age

26

Ht

183cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.8

3star

K

5.2

2star

HB

5.6

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.2

4star

G

0.2

2star

No current season stats available

D

13.0

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

6.2

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

3.2

5star

G

0.2

3star

failed to land a gig at Freo or West Coast either, which personally surprised me. It will be interesting if he gives the WAFL a red hot crack with a hope of being drafted mid season or next year. No idea whether Corey Lyons or Toby Wooller nominated, but they too have been passed over.