List Mgmt. 2020 List Management II

[BluesTragic]

McKay doesn't want to play ruck. At least that was the case not so long ago.

I think we'll trial the taller forward line and see how it plays out, but we won't be playing all those talls together.
If McKay and CCurnow are good to go and we do play the two rucks, then one of McGovern or any other tall sees us through.

It will be interesting to see what Teague has in mind.

I hope one thing he has in mind will be to stop 5,6 and 7 goal onslaughts Harks

 

[HARKER]

I hope one thing he has in mind will be to stop 5,6 and 7 goal onslaughts Harks

That's a given, but I also don't think it should be the only focus.
Let's try that again - It has to be remedied but it's the mids that will have to learn to attack the ball carrier with a little more gusto along with falling back to support the backs.

Teague wants to play the more attacking game and that won't change, but it will need to be tweaked somewhat in the off-season.
Big pre-season coming up for all the guys obviously, but TDK could be one we put most effort into. We're going to need him

 

[swuzzlebubble]

I doubt the $900k figure is for more than the first year of his contract, front-loaded because we have extra cap space.

Robbo is just obfuscating that element in order to say "hur dur 900k times 5 is $4.5 mill!"

Also if North was offering the highest amount, then their figure is what other clubs would have been told to beat.

 

[Sheephead]

Was a fan of Hunt a couple of years ago. Haven't followed him closely enough to know his recent progress but someone I'd be in favor of adding - his speed would add value to any line and has intensity.

How did Ronke go from kicking 7 to on the scrap heap. That's quite the outlier.

I don’t mind Hunt.. Don’t like the headband, but the willingness to run and have a shot is encouragoing.

Ronke is just a mystery.

 

[Sheephead]

Also if North was offering the highest amount, then their figure is what other clubs would have been told to beat.

How come the filter kicks in when I use ****, but you get obfuscating through. That is rude right.

Splitting our pick, for 2 is great, IF the deals are in place.

 

[Gethelred]

Where am I

The big questions thread.

 

[Coona Blues]

I know you like Balme and fair enough, he has always been a great operator

But, who are those conductors at WC, Dogs, Hawks, Cats, Swans, all these clubs that won flags in the last decades

What's happened to that "person" at the Hawks and Swans

You could substitute the word conductor for the cliche "winning culture", how is it present one year/phase and not the next

Not directed at you, but i sense people clutch, when their expectations just don't align with results in the now

Almost every indicator in successful teams, is based heavily on a number of factors; talent, continuity/cohesion, experience ( age range)

Not sure why many want to rewrite history

Totally different dynamic here, we don't seem have that leader among the heirarchy of the club. More and more I come to the realisation that our
prime driver is going to be one Sam Walsh. Doesn't have to be skipper, but he totally smashes any prospect of "loser mentality". Weiters and a couple
of others are the support act, but we need a few more of the young ones to reject the vanilla. Charlie returning will help. Harry needs to channel his
social media persona on to the ground and embrace some flair, real confidence will make him the best around and drag his mates along. Crippa and
Doc need a bit of a reboot, they have experienced too much of the dark years when some players became content with their pay cheques and
lost that innate drive most sportsmen have. Not suggesting this is the case with our skippers, but it is time to move one from celebrating the odd
victory and accepting the losses as our lot. They drive a work ethic, but I can't help but feel they need to really believe sustained success is a dawning
reality. I have high hopes for TDK, Willo, Fish and Kemp in that sphere.

Hope this makes sense to you all.

 

[Arr0w]

Totally different dynamic here, we don't seem have that leader among the heirarchy of the club. More and more I come to the realisation that our
prime driver is going to be one Sam Walsh. Doesn't have to be skipper, but he totally smashes any prospect of "loser mentality". Weiters and a couple
of others are the support act, but we need a few more of the young ones to reject the vanilla. Charlie returning will help. Harry needs to channel his
social media persona on to the ground and embrace some flair, real confidence will make him the best around and drag his mates along. Crippa and
Doc need a bit of a reboot, they have experienced too much of the dark years when some players became content with their pay cheques and
lost that innate drive most sportsmen have. Not suggesting this is the case with our skippers, but it is time to move one from celebrating the odd
victory and accepting the losses as our lot. They drive a work ethic, but I can't help but feel they need to really believe sustained success is a dawning
reality. I have high hopes for TDK, Willo, Fish and Kemp in that sphere.

Hope this makes sense to you all.

I guess I was talking more about the off field, this precieved "vibe" or a Balme like figure that brings unity. While important, I don't list it as one of the priorities

When we were winning flags, our off field still had fractures and factions

 

[Macca43]

Robbo

Surely we are not really giving that oxygen thief any attention whatsoever?

He's a pathetic excuse for a journalist.

We don't care what idiots on Bay 13 have to say about our club, Robbo is no better. He's an Essendon fanboi who wouldn't know the first thing about list building, contracts etc.

He has one job: to sell papers. And the best way to sell papers is to be controversial and put utter trash out in the public domain.

It's not even worth reading what he has to say, just as it's not worth wasting time listening to Kane Cornes.

Yeah, I am not sure the blues have ever done anything that hasn't been wrong.

Even if the blues are overpaying isn't it worth over paying to ensure that GWS get a pick high enough so they don't match the bid?

 

[HARKER]

Totally different dynamic here, we don't seem have that leader among the heirarchy of the club. More and more I come to the realisation that our
prime driver is going to be one Sam Walsh. Doesn't have to be skipper, but he totally smashes any prospect of "loser mentality". Weiters and a couple
of others are the support act, but we need a few more of the young ones to reject the vanilla. Charlie returning will help. Harry needs to channel his
social media persona on to the ground and embrace some flair, real confidence will make him the best around and drag his mates along. Crippa and
Doc need a bit of a reboot, they have experienced too much of the dark years when some players became content with their pay cheques and
lost that innate drive most sportsmen have. Not suggesting this is the case with our skippers, but it is time to move one from celebrating the odd
victory and accepting the losses as our lot. They drive a work ethic, but I can't help but feel they need to really believe sustained success is a dawning
reality. I have high hopes for TDK, Willo, Fish and Kemp in that sphere.

Hope this makes sense to you all.

Re. Hawks -

I heard this but can't vouch for it being true, but Hodge was a very hard driver at the club, always pushing standards to higher and higher levels.
Players respected him and were scared of him and apparently, he'd even call players at night checking up on them. There was nowhere to hide.
Now this is important from an individual that knows what he/she is doing, but it's also driven by the club culture set in place, years earlier.

Players are very important drivers in this scenario, but if that ethic isn't in place from top down, those standards will get away from you.

BTW - Good post.

 

[FRUMPY]

Yeh he is about the hardest guy to value. I find him extremely exciting but I doubt if he would’ve been named in the best 6 players for the entire year and has a body that the club shouldn’t really punt on.
He is also the sort of player who should be chasing money as hard as he can because he really wouldn’t have faith that his body will allow him to have a long and healthy career.
I think two years at $400k is probably a win/win. I imagine the club want more like $300k with incentives being a big part of the deal, which is fair but I doubt Williamson would be keen on.

Be dumb to pay him $400,000. 32 games into a career of which 2 years have been wiped out by injury. the $300,000 would be more the amount i think. If there is a disagreement i would say it would be more about the number of years. He would be wanting 3 years for security and the club only 2 because of injury history. Club will probably get their way and get the 2 years and pay a little extra to get him to agree, so maybe $350,000 a year?

I love his attacking nature and willing to burst through a pack. Wont always work and when it doesnt work it doenst look great. But you want people taking on the game. He also has quick hands, some quick handballs in tight spots have been smooth to watch. Thought his kicking was a bit off this year but will get better with another full summer.

 

[FRUMPY]

Nah didn’t mention Cripps, I like Robbo to but I’m just sick of people talking crap, like I said Neale had a hard tag once this year and didn’t cope at all, yet Cripps cops ridiculous attention every week and doesn’t bat an eyelid, context.

Neale gets on the move so a hard tag is tough to put on him, cripps doesnt get on the move and blokes can sit on him. Cripps needs to change how he plays in close i reckon.

 

[an unbiased carlton man]

I / We on the Richmond board dont want to lose him and 99% Want him signed up which is very unusual on the Richmond board but you dont get many 22 year olds that have shown what he has specially at a later pick (not saying you cant but its rare maybe 1 -2 a year after pick 20)

We want him to stay but if he was leaving then it depends on the club he goes to and how early the 2nd round pick is i suppose
pick #20-#25 i could live with but #30-#40 i would hate. specially with maurice Rioli jnr this year as father son we have no idea where a bid will fall

If i was the list manager i would be pushing for a 1st round pick upgrade of sorts but who knows what happens we tend to get players to where they want usually to our detriment. Stengle ,Lloyd , Butler , Miles/Ellis etc

Thanks mate, I hope for your sake you retain him and for our sake we gain him. I'd hate to lose someone like Setterfield who I see of similar quality.

Maurice Rioli Jnr could be a huge pickup for you guys, he seems incredibly keen to get to the club. By all accounts, he's a freak of a player.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Re. Hawks -

I heard this but can't vouch for it being true, but Hodge was a very hard driver at the club, always pushing standards to higher and higher levels.
Players respected him and were scared of him and apparently, he'd even call players at night checking up on them. There was nowhere to hide.
Now this is important from an individual that knows what he/she is doing, but it's also driven by the club culture set in place, years earlier.

Players are very important drivers in this scenario, but if that ethic isn't in place from top down, those standards will get away from you.

BTW - Good post.

The thing about Hodge was he is abit of a mans, man. Early on he was over weight and abit of a piss head. Really turned things around but even then still had indiscretions along the way. Far from a saint which personally I think is abit of a positive as he is relatable. Players loved him and wanted to be around/impress him.


Edit. Also being in a great side helps a hell of a lot and then the success they had as a group let’s people see past faults. If Cripps done exactly what he is doing now at somewhere like Richmond then he would be praised as an incredible leader but he can’t gets wins because our cattle aren’t good enough yet.

 

[FRUMPY]

900k does seem a stretch for Williams

Lets say the figure of $900,000 is correct - its probably $900,000 yr one and $650,000 a year after (based on $700,000 average for 5 years). Lazy journalism to just include the big number and state as fact. Same as last year, we have money to spend and it needs to be spent.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Be dumb to pay him $400,000. 32 games into a career of which 2 years have been wiped out by injury. the $300,000 would be more the amount i think. If there is a disagreement i would say it would be more about the number of years. He would be wanting 3 years for security and the club only 2 because of injury history. Club will probably get their way and get the 2 years and pay a little extra to get him to agree, so maybe $350,000 a year?

I love his attacking nature and willing to burst through a pack. Wont always work and when it doesnt work it doenst look great. But you want people taking on the game. He also has quick hands, some quick handballs in tight spots have been smooth to watch. Thought his kicking was a bit off this year but will get better with another full summer.

And that’s probably the hold up. Someone like North would be mad to not offer him more then we should and would only cost them a third.
This is what I’ve been harping on about in regards of GWS and them paying blokes. If North come and offer Williamson 3 years at $400k which I think would be smart we are then under huge pressure.
Same as if they offer Harry $1.2mil next year. What do we do then?

Personally I think this is why it’s vital we improve quickly because the longer we aren’t contending the more players will be tempted.

 

[8Special K]

Now is the time to REALLY get some established players in. We’ve been linked to Williams, we’ve been linked to wines and unfortunately we’ll be missing out on papley but we really do need to address the small forward role and I think we should go for someone like Petruccelle. If we can shake another out of gws then Caldwell is the one I want. Forget about the draft, we’ve done that and we’ve missed some trade targets over the years.

I’ve outlined some possible trades, a best 22 (that you may or may not agree with) and looking at our depth if we make these trades it looks like a very healthy list.

FA: Zac Williams

Pick 7, 27 > Ollie wines, pick 30

Pick 30, future second> jye Caldwell, 46

Pick 46 > Jack petruccelle

Draft: 45- have a shot at a small forward



B: Williamson Jones plowman

HB: Docherty weitering williams

C: Newnes Wines Walsh

HF: Martin C.Curnow Gibbons

F: McGovern McKay Betts

R: Dekoning Cripps Murphy

Int. Casboult, SPS, Setterfield,

Petruccelle, E.Curnow, Fisher



Depth:

Caldwell - eventually to take over Ed

Cuningham - a consistent run without injury to take over murph

Pittonet - I prefer Dekoning as he has a higher ceiling but Pitt is a great backup

O’Brien - needs to seriously make a move and if he does he COULD take newnes spot on the wing

Dow - needs to pull his finger out too, especially after acquiring setterfield and Caldwell

Marchbank - I can seriously see him breaking back in Williamson style if he has an injury free run

Polson - there’s still hope there I think, could break into the defensive half

Silvagni - to take McGovern’s spot if he continues to have bad performances and at this stage I prefer Silvagni in the side but we know McGovern is a first choice unfortunately

Cottrell- good depth player but needs to work on his disposal

Honey - could break into the side once Betts slows down

Owies - same as honey

Kennedy - with Wines it makes it hard but he had some promising performances this year

Stocker - next year is his time to really start to show something, we need this guy to not become a bust after selling a high pick for him

Kemp - no rush, have an injury free run and build some dominant performances in the twos

Philp- build in the twos, had a few almost moments in his two games and he’s looking promising



Unknown: Fraser Phillips, Sam Ramsay



Delistees: Harrison macreadie, Callum Moore

Imagine if the likes of Dow, Stocker, O’Brien and Kemp come on! I know this is all optimism and all these trades probably won’t come off but I’m excited about next year and beyond.

 

[OldCarltonKnows]

Robbo

Surely we are not really giving that oxygen thief any attention whatsoever?

He's a pathetic excuse for a journalist.

We don't care what idiots on Bay 13 have to say about our club, Robbo is no better. He's an Essendon fanboi who wouldn't know the first thing about list building, contracts etc.

He has one job: to sell papers. And the best way to sell papers is to be controversial and put utter trash out in the public domain.

It's not even worth reading what he has to say, just as it's not worth wasting time listening to Kane Cornes.

Absolutely spot on.

 

[alfo]

Now is the time to REALLY get some established players in. We’ve been linked to Williams, we’ve been linked to wines and unfortunately we’ll be missing out on papley but we really do need to address the small forward role and I think we should go for someone like Petruccelle. If we can shake another out of gws then Caldwell is the one I want. Forget about the draft, we’ve done that and we’ve missed some trade targets over the years.

I’ve outlined some possible trades, a best 22 (that you may or may not agree with) and looking at our depth if we make these trades it looks like a very healthy list.

FA: Zac Williams

Pick 7, 27 > Ollie wines, pick 30

Pick 30, future second> jye Caldwell, 46

Pick 46 > Jack petruccelle

Draft: 45- have a shot at a small forward



B: Williamson Jones plowman

HB: Docherty weitering williams

C: Newnes Wines Walsh

HF: Martin C.Curnow Gibbons

F: McGovern McKay Betts

R: Dekoning Cripps Murphy

Int. Casboult, SPS, Setterfield,

Petruccelle, E.Curnow, Fisher



Depth:

Caldwell - eventually to take over Ed

Cuningham - a consistent run without injury to take over murph

Pittonet - I prefer Dekoning as he has a higher ceiling but Pitt is a great backup

O’Brien - needs to seriously make a move and if he does he COULD take newnes spot on the wing

Dow - needs to pull his finger out too, especially after acquiring setterfield and Caldwell

Marchbank - I can seriously see him breaking back in Williamson style if he has an injury free run

Polson - there’s still hope there I think, could break into the defensive half

Silvagni - to take McGovern’s spot if he continues to have bad performances and at this stage I prefer Silvagni in the side but we know McGovern is a first choice unfortunately

Cottrell- good depth player but needs to work on his disposal

Honey - could break into the side once Betts slows down

Owies - same as honey

Kennedy - with Wines it makes it hard but he had some promising performances this year

Stocker - next year is his time to really start to show something, we need this guy to not become a bust after selling a high pick for him

Kemp - no rush, have an injury free run and build some dominant performances in the twos

Philp- build in the twos, had a few almost moments in his two games and he’s looking promising



Unknown: Fraser Phillips, Sam Ramsay



Delistees: Harrison macreadie, Callum Moore

Imagine if the likes of Dow, Stocker, O’Brien and Kemp come on! I know this is all optimism and all these trades probably won’t come off but I’m excited about next year and beyond.

Petrucelle just signed on with WC a few weeks ago. Scrap that one from your list.

On SM-G960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[8Special K]

Petrucelle just signed on with WC a few weeks ago. Scrap that one from your list.

On SM-G960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

That’s a shame, it looked like he was on the outer and not getting a game. Where do we shake a small forward from? I think we need a ready made from somewhere. I can’t see Eddie playing a full year, honey is more of a medium size and owies is unproven. Maybe Zac Langdon from gws?

 

[Arr0w]

That’s a shame, it looked like he was on the outer and not getting a game. Where do we shake a small forward from? I think we need a ready made from somewhere. I can’t see Eddie playing a full year, honey is more of a medium size and owies is unproven. Maybe Zac Langdon from gws?

Plenty of small forwards to have a crack at, many are currently OOC

 

[El Topo]

Re. Hawks -

I heard this but can't vouch for it being true, but Hodge was a very hard driver at the club, always pushing standards to higher and higher levels.
Players respected him and were scared of him and apparently, he'd even call players at night checking up on them. There was nowhere to hide.
Now this is important from an individual that knows what he/she is doing, but it's also driven by the club culture set in place, years earlier.

Players are very important drivers in this scenario, but if that ethic isn't in place from top down, those standards will get away from you.

BTW - Good post.

Re. Hawks - Jason Dunstall is your man.

 

[HaydossJ]

Question.
When Casboult moves out of the 22 (most likely next year when Charlie is back) who plays the 2nd ruck position?

I can’t see us playing both TDK & Pitt along with Charlie, Harry & Gov + JSOS.

The obvious candidate is Harry but the club has seemed reluctant as yet to put him in the ruck for 5min a quarter. If so do we go the smaller avenue similar to bulldogs and Dunkley?

1 player I actually thought who could be decent for this would be McGov. Has the strength and leap to be able to provide a chop out, and this is one way he could actually benefit the team

This is the answer IMO. McGov was great round one when Kreuzer went down.

 

[DirkDiggler]

Plenty of small forwards to have a crack at, many are currently OOC

Can you name and rank them in terms of our needs?

 

[Arr0w]

Can you name and rank them in terms of our needs?

Would take me hours, ranking players versus what we would likely need to get them

But that doesn't change the number of options, no specific order

Lonie, Narkle, AMT, Spargo, Hill, Moore, etc

Not all gettable of course