List Mgmt. 2020 List Management

[Opine]

Again, I would be happy to, but it isn't up to me, and it isn't even really up to the Swans.

His form this season is a testament to both the player and club.; both seemingly very professional. He may decide to stay.

 

[Blue__Balls]

We have a difference of opinion.

I did decent job of expressing my thoughts on a footy matter in between responding to another and asking something of yet another regarding a non-footy matter.

I think Essendon do need him, and perhaps contentiously, I don’t subscribe to the anti Essendon sentiment; that should compel Stamos to go running to Apph requesting that I be carded.

I’ve enjoyed Eddies creativity, and am very happy for the club to afford opportunities to some of the younger blokes filling that hard running small forward role.

Fair play.

I'm on the record as thinking that Sydney will be incredibly reluctant to give him up. To the point that they may simply refuse to deal unless the offer is...irresponsible.

I'm happy to put assets like our first rounder, second rounder and Marchbank on the table, in some combination, depending on what else might come back with Papley. I'm less happy with, but would probably come to accept, two first rounders provided a pick in the very early 20s comes back (that's a very valuable piece of trade collateral to use on another player).

If, in the end, Sydney won't deal - I'm equally happy to go chasing someone a little less proven, or hit the draft for a talented small forward in the mold of Higgins/Ainsworth/Rayner/Stephenson/Butters who, whilst needing some development, would probably slot straight in and offer some defensive and scoreboard pressure.

The absolute dream would be Owies or Honey getting a run of games and absolutely smashing it. Would free us up to go all out for Kelly or Gaff.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

If we gave you a top 10 pick I’d vomit profusely for 5 weeks, and then I’d swear vulgarities at the top of ma lungs. Please keep him.

23 years old, potential 2020 Coleman medalist, contracted for another year, playing in a position that we desperately need to fill with talent.

Get the Imodium out, he’s going to cost us.

 

[Opine]

23 years old, potential 2020 Coleman medalist, contracted for another year, playing in a position that we desperately need to fill with talent.

Get the Imodium out, he’s going to cost us.

I’m happy to wait another year. I think we‘ve got some coverage and potential that may provide value for at least the next 12 months.

 

[BigFrizz36]

From memory that was StK's response to Freo last year? Freo started playing hard ball and the 'Aints went and traded the pick that Freo really wanted initially. Still well and truly paid for him, but it felt like they were controlling the narrative...

They paid the equivalent of pick 4 (granted points are not the be all and end all) and the media are talking about dropping him........................hmm

 

[RUNVS]

I’m happy to wait another year. I think we‘ve got some coverage and potential that may provide value for at least the next 12 months.

He isn't a free agent next year. Would still need to get him at the trade table.

 

[Opine]

He sent a free agent next year. Would still need to get him at the trade table.

Yes, you‘re technically spot on. Likewise, that same scenario applies to Daniher at end of this year. IMO your club was the aggressor last year, re Daniher, and then cloaked itself as the pacifier. You had the chance to shore up an early first rounder last season and use to offset payment for the Essendon bloke. I’d be hoping my club has moved on.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Yes, you‘re technically spot on. Likewise, that same scenario applies to Daniher at end of this year. IMO your club was the aggressor last year, re Daniher, and then cloaked itself as the pacifier. You had the chance to shore up an early first rounder last season and use to offset payment for the Essendon bloke. I’d be hoping my club has moved on.

Don't think that's how it played out, Opine - Essendon were the ones playing hard ball for Daniher, apparently making it known to Sydney that two first rounders wasn't going to get it done. Sydney were apparently prepared to pull the trigger on Papley to facilitate that, but had no reason to when it became clear that Daniher wasn't gettable.

If Daniher is now gettable as a free agent, then Sydney have no specific need for our first round pick unless there's another player they're in the market for, or it helps them in the draft. Our best chance might be Essendon being pricks and threatening to match the Daninher offer given he's a restricted free agent. In that scenario, Sydney may need our first to offset the loss of their first rounder if it needs to be traded.

EDIT: Pretty conclusive when you read the comments from Tom Harley:

Swans reveal their final offer for Joe Daniher

Plus the two players they were willing to throw into negotiations with the Bombers.

www.zerohanger.com

 

[Opine]

Don't think that's how it played out, Opine - Essendon were the ones playing hard ball for Daniher, apparently making it known to Sydney that two first rounders wasn't going to get it done. Sydney were apparently prepared to pull the trigger on Papley to facilitate that, but had no reason to when it became clear that Daniher wasn't gettable.

If Daniher is now gettable as a free agent, then Sydney have no specific need for our first round pick unless there's another player they're in the market for, or it helps them in the draft. Our best chance might be Essendon being pricks and threatening to match the Daninher offer given he's a restricted free agent. In that scenario, Sydney may need our first to offset the loss of their first rounder if it needs to be traded.

Isn’t Daniher a restricted free agent? If so, then I wouldn’t discount a Dangerfield scenario; whereby Cats dealt for him despite restricted free agency status. I’m not an advocate of current restrictive AFL trading system but I won’t be surprised if Essendon go down the same path as Crows.

I don’t think Essendon‘s stance on Daniher was overly dissimilar to the Blues stance on Gibbs; both under contract, both wanted by their club and fans, both clubs requesting overs.

 

[HARKER]

If I’m being honest, my reaction is likely underlying apprehension of what I perceive to be install for us post SOS. I’m shitting myself that we may get smashed like we used to.

Let's see first of all.

There isn't a club that can't do enough to bolster their stocks.
For me SOS proved himself as a great negotiator and not necessarily the best identifier of talent, via his recruiters.

Maybe we won't be the best negotiators any more, but be better at recruiting.
I don't know, but I do know not to make a call before we've seen what comes about.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

Let's see first of all.

There isn't a club that can't do enough to bolster their stocks.
For me SOS proved himself as a great negotiator and not necessarily the best identifier of talent, via his recruiters.

Maybe we won't be the best negotiators any more, but be better at recruiting.
I don't know, but I do know not to make a call before we've seen what comes about.

hmmmm I disagree with this.

There’s a difference between being a “great” negotiator and tough negotiator.

For all of his great work in building what we have currently, I think SOS had a tendency to let his emotions/ego get in the way at times at the trade table.

 

[Opine]

hmmmm I disagree with this.

There’s a difference between being a “great” negotiator and tough negotiator.

For all of his great work in building what we have currently, I think SOS had a tendency to let his emotions/ego get in the way at times at the trade table.

If that was so, I‘m nonetheless struggling to recognise an instance where his supposed ego adversely impacted a negotiation to the Blues detriment. Can you cite any such instance?

 

[Opine]

Let's see first of all.

There isn't a club that can't do enough to bolster their stocks.
For me SOS proved himself as a great negotiator and not necessarily the best identifier of talent, via his recruiters.

Maybe we won't be the best negotiators any more, but be better at recruiting.
I don't know, but I do know not to make a call before we've seen what comes about.

But, arguably, for the clubs unwillingness and or inability to manage such an outcome, we may have maintained great negotiating and added best talent identification.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Isn’t Daniher a restricted free agent? If so, then I wouldn’t discount a Dangerfield scenario; whereby Cats dealt for him despite restricted free agency status. I’m not an advocate of current restrictive AFL trading system but I won’t be surprised if Essendon go down the same path as Crows.

I don’t think Essendon‘s stance on Daniher was overly dissimilar to the Blues stance on Gibbs; both under contract, both wanted by their club and fans, both clubs requesting overs.

Restricted Free Agent is my understanding.

No chance Sydney are being bullied into trading Pick ~2 for an injured Daniher. Carlton's pick (7-12?) might be enough to satisfy Essendon - particularly if the compensation is going to be Band 2.

Band 1 - Pick ~10 - they maybe make some noise to see if Sydney will cough up Pick 2, but that's simply not going to happen given the circumstances.
Band 2 - Pick ~21 - they most certainly threaten to match the bid, and maybe we can trade our first for Papley so that it can be on-traded for Daniher.

I think the big difference with Gibbs was that his reason for leaving was related to family/convenience, he made it pretty clear to the club that he would stay and play if required, he was fit and in form, and Carlton were very light on for senior players.

Daniher desperately wanted out for his own reasons, was injured, and as such has given Essendon absolutely nothing this year. Essendon seemed to think they could convince him to stay, but by all accounts he wanted to go north for his mental health and they knocked back an incredibly good deal (Picks 5 and 9 - two of Stephens, Young, Serong, Flanders, McAsey - maybe even make a cheeky play for Wines) despite it not being in anyone's best interests.

 

[Iwishicouldplay4themoney]

stop posting while riding a horse.....

Sorry, is that 3 points and $150 fine. It's only a wooden horse.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

If that was so, I‘m nonetheless struggling to recognise an instance where his supposed ego adversely impacted a negotiation for the Blues. Can you cite any such instance?

The answer to this question is subjective as what I determine to be an adverse outcome may be different to you.

It’s just my opinion knowing SOS and a few of the players that were used as pawns in some dealings along the way.

Devon Smith, Dion Prestia, Adam Saad all wanted to join us at one point in time - SOS lowballed each of them initially and when their management countered us with “slightly above market value” (as they wanted to return home to Victoria) he stubbornly refused to budge from his initial low base platform and they each went elsewhere.

Putting aside what they may have cost us at the trade table, and how that may have impacted us at this moment in time is a seperate argument.

As far as list management is concerned, it’s my opinion that the selections of Cuningham and O’Dwyer were somewhat influenced by their relationships with his children.

The club too must have thought this to be an issue with SOS vis-à-vis his decision making being clouded by emotion - given they opted to remove him on the basis that he would be swayed by having his kids on the list.

 

[Opine]

Restricted Free Agent is my understanding.

No chance Sydney are being bullied into trading Pick ~2 for an injured Daniher. Carlton's pick (7-12?) might be enough to satisfy Essendon - particularly if the compensation is going to be Band 2.

Band 1 - Pick ~10 - they maybe make some noise to see if Sydney will cough up Pick 2, but that's simply not going to happen given the circumstances.
Band 2 - Pick ~21 - they most certainly threaten to match the bid, and maybe we can trade our first for Papley so that it can be on-traded for Daniher.

I think the big difference with Gibbs was that his reason for leaving was related to family/convenience, he made it pretty clear to the club that he would stay and play if required, he was fit and in form, and Carlton were very light on for senior players.

Daniher desperately wanted out for his own reasons, was injured, and as such has given Essendon absolutely nothing this year. Essendon seemed to think they could convince him to stay, but by all accounts he wanted to go north for his mental health and they knocked back an incredibly good deal (Picks 5 and 9 - two of Stephens, Young, Serong, Flanders, McAsey - maybe even make a cheeky play for Wines) despite it not being in anyone's best interests.

I recall Crows fans citing Gibbs family reasons for wanting out; and suggesting CFC were insensitive and unfairly harsh for not accomodating a trade. I agree with Blues response, at that time, regarding Gibbs value to us.

I agree circumstances may have changed this season in terms of Daniher’s market value, I’d certainly be arguing that was so if I were Sydney, and conversely suggesting that more goes into to establishing value of a key forward than 1 or 2 seasons of growing pains.

In any case, I’m left feeling as though the Swans were the wolves cloaked as sheep at last trade period.

 

[Aphrodite]

It is going to suck seeing Papley at Carlton next year. I just hope that if he still wants to go to your club (and I suspect he does) that both teams can get a fair deal for him.

If he doesn't come to us, hope he stays at Sydney.

 

[Opine]

The answer to this question is subjective as what I determine to be an adverse outcome may be different to you.

It’s just my opinion knowing SOS and a few of the players that were used as pawns in some dealings along the way.

Devon Smith, Dion Prestia, Adam Saad all wanted to join us at one point in time - SOS lowballed each of them initially and when their management countered us with “slightly above market value” (as they wanted to return home to Victoria) he stubbornly refused to budge from his initial low base platform and they each went elsewhere.

Putting aside what they may have cost us at the trade table, and how that may have impacted us at this moment in time is a seperate argument.

As far as list management is concerned, it’s my opinion that the selections of Cuningham and O’Dwyer were somewhat influenced by their relationships with his children.

The club too must have thought this to be an issue with SOS vis-à-vis his decision making being clouded by emotion - given they opted to remove him on the basis that he would be swayed by having his kids on the list.

Leaving aside draft selections, which aren‘t at issue in this particular discussion, I’m not disspointed at missing out on Devon Smith; even though he’s a decently good player.

Saad would have been nice While Doc and Willo were out, but I think we‘re currently ok off HBF.

Prestia would have been nice. I‘ve no idea on what transpired regarding DP, other than to recall that we might have had some salary cap issues early on which might have effected Blues ability to land him; but I’ve no idea so I’m probably talking shit.

 

[Ricky Mott]

hmmmm I disagree with this.

There’s a difference between being a “great” negotiator and tough negotiator.

For all of his great work in building what we have currently, I think SOS had a tendency to let his emotions/ego get in the way at times at the trade table.

Yes his ego and emotions got in the way of getting two first round picks for Gibbs, pick 21 for Tom Bell, Pick 28 for Menzel which we ended up getting Plowman, end of first round pick for Yarran, first round pick for Henderson which became H.Mckay, future 4th round Pick for Pittonet, and just to cap it off Jack Martin for nothiiiinnnng!
Huge ego and emotion our sos!!!!

 

[Sector 7G]

The answer to this question is subjective as what I determine to be an adverse outcome may be different to you.

It’s just my opinion knowing SOS and a few of the players that were used as pawns in some dealings along the way.

Devon Smith, Dion Prestia, Adam Saad all wanted to join us at one point in time - SOS lowballed each of them initially and when their management countered us with “slightly above market value” (as they wanted to return home to Victoria) he stubbornly refused to budge from his initial low base platform and they each went elsewhere.

Putting aside what they may have cost us at the trade table, and how that may have impacted us at this moment in time is a seperate argument.

As far as list management is concerned, it’s my opinion that the selections of Cuningham and O’Dwyer were somewhat influenced by their relationships with his children.

The club too must have thought this to be an issue with SOS vis-à-vis his decision making being clouded by emotion - given they opted to remove him on the basis that he would be swayed by having his kids on the list.

I don't believe that SOS had interest in Smith, Prestia or Saad. Hence he didn't offer anything. He wasn't trying to get them on the cheap he had other targets that he wanted and has shown he has been able to get the deals he wants done.

Cuningham played with JSOS at Chargers/VicMetro like many others. I don't think he was influenced by their relationship. I wish he had of selected Dan Huston who played at Graythorn with JSOS. Absolute bargain in the Rookie Draft.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

Yes his ego and emotions got in the way of getting two first round picks for Gibbs, pick 21 for Tom Bell, Pick 28 for Menzel which we ended up getting Plowman, end of first round pick for Yarran, first round pick for Henderson which became H.Mckay, future 4th round Pick for Pittonet, and just to cap it off Jack Martin for nothiiiinnnng!
Huge ego and emotion our sos!!!!

You know it's becoming quite commonplace for Ricky Mott to bob up whenever anyone paints SOS or his kids in any negative light around this place.

Your comprehension of grammar and basic spelling is too poor for you to be Jo Bailey or any of the Xavier educated Silvagni kids.

 

[HARKER]

hmmmm I disagree with this.
There’s a difference between being a “great” negotiator and tough negotiator.
For all of his great work in building what we have currently, I think SOS had a tendency to let his emotions/ego get in the way at times at the trade table.

Look at turning Henderson into McKay
What was done to deal with and know to attain CCurnow.
Turning Gibbs into 2 * 1st rounders.
Getting Martin for nothing. ++

There's more, but we can't pretend that this was somehow all luck.
Silvagni brought us into favourable situations via deals struck. Whether we took full advantage of them though makes for another story.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

I don't believe that SOS had interest in Smith, Prestia or Saad. Hence he didn't offer anything. He wasn't trying to get them on the cheap he had other targets that he wanted and has shown he has been able to get the deals he wants done.

Only one way to really find out I guess.

Hey Ricky Mott - can you ask your son if he had any genuine interest in Smith, Prestia or Saad?

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

Look at turning Henderson into McKay
What was done to deal with and know to attain CCurnow.
Turning Gibbs into 2 * 1st rounders.
Getting Martin for nothing. ++

There's more, but we can't pretend that this was somehow all luck.
Silvagni brought us into favourable situations via deals struck. Whether we took full advantage of them though makes for another story.

FWIW I'm a fan of SOS' work while at the club.

The way he schooled Reid and turned some cast-offs into gold will go down as legend.

I just cringe sometimes at this halo we seem to place on him and the reverence he's afforded on here.