List Mgmt. 2020 List Management

Remove this Banner Ad

Status
Not open for further replies.

JD_2020

Cancelled
Sep 14, 2020
57
39
AFL Club
Carlton
Look at Ports midfield - Boak, Rockliff, Wines. Richmonds - Dusty, Prestia, Graham, Cotchin. All big agile bodies. Fish is 177cm ffs, how is he meant to line up against those blokes and have an impact? He got moved from the midfield because he's too small in the modern era, simple. He needs to re-invent himself, which he is.
If he isn't a mid. And he isn't a competent small-fwd. What exactly is he?
 

TheKITC

Club Legend
Mar 7, 2009
2,395
2,977
The Cupboard
AFL Club
Carlton
Even though I really wanted him, Papley was going to cost a fortune in trade capital. Our time to get the trade done was last year.

In a way, despite how much we need someone of his ability and age in that position, I'm ok with moving onto other targets because I felt we may have had to overpay a lot due to his weird contract situation.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

mochacinolatte

Premiership Player
Mar 6, 2018
3,960
11,320
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Timberwolves(RIP), Baghdad Bombers
I said all along he hit the scoreboard in 3 out of his last 8 games as a small fwd. Awful return.

6 goals in 8 games isn't in question.
No. of goals hit per game.
Papely 4 out of his last 8 games.
Walters 3 out of his last 8 games.
Cameron 5 out of his last 8 games.
Castagna 3 out of his last 8 games.
Miers 5 out of his last 8 games.

As my post above. He is averaging no. of hits per game as some of the small forward I listed above. Note that he has played predominately as a midfielder to date, before asking to play a small forward. What we learnt from this season is that he can play that role if required.

You already wanting to trade him when we go no other small forwards on the list is counter-productive.

Hence my attack on your original post as pointless stat shaming.
 

chunkylover53

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 13, 2008
5,824
12,060
From Where You'd Rather Be
AFL Club
Carlton
If he isn't a mid. And he isn't a competent small-fwd. What exactly is he?
He is a competent small forward for starters, stop looking at stats, he's been the only one to look dangerous down there the past 6 weeks.

But he's capable of playing that high forward role which we've also seen him play, must have missed all the running bounces towards the 50?

The spot he is playing now is where he needs to make it work, which he will. Fisher is literally the least of our worries, find someone else to trade.
 

AndyLucimitis

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 14, 2002
6,180
9,505
Victoria
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Chelsea
He is a forward with goals in 3 out of 8 games. How's that for his revised role and how he is going?

Again, I'm not saying he is a write off to be delisted. But a player down 2 years in a row that might be of interest elsewhere. Somewhere where he might play in a role he isn't a C or D-grader at



One attribute of Fisher which I like is that he seems to be a player who can create a goal or an attacking move out of nowhere or against the run of play.

We can be a bit bland and predictable as a team but he at least brings unpredictability.
 

JD_2020

Cancelled
Sep 14, 2020
57
39
AFL Club
Carlton
No. of goals hit per game.
Papely 4 out of his last 8 games.
Walters 3 out of his last 8 games.
Cameron 5 out of his last 8 games.
Castagna 3 out of his last 8 games.
Miers 5 out of his last 8 games.

As my post above. He is averaging no. of hits per game as some of the small forward I listed above. Note that he has played predominately as a midfielder to date, before asking to play a small forward. What we learnt from this season is that he can play that role if required.

You already wanting to trade him when we go no other small forwards on the list is counter-productive.

Hence my attack on your original post as pointless stat shaming.
With Papley gone do you actually think we have the answer with our #25 as a small-fwd for a 2021 finals side?

Do we actually think Zac Fisher as a small fwd will get 35+ goals a season?
 

JD_2020

Cancelled
Sep 14, 2020
57
39
AFL Club
Carlton
One attribute of Fisher which I like is that he seems to be a player who can create a goal or an attacking move out of nowhere or against the run of play.

We can be a bit bland and predictable as a team but he at least brings unpredictability.
He has those sharp hands but ranks 40th for general forwards (non KPF) for score involvements per game.
 

HavUEvaSeenTheRain

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 20, 2006
5,851
6,860
AFL Club
Carlton
Fishers best work is in heavy traffic as that second possession type player. With the amount of congestion in the forward line these days I think it will really suit his strengths. He won’t be a big goal scorer though, just like Martin, Cuningham etc so that’s what we are lacking imo and hopefully we can find somewhere. I just don’t think he is good enough at his size to be a full time mid.

it’s funny because during Fishers draft I was gutted we took him over Bolton because I thought Bolton’s game would transfer so much better at AFL level. Now playing in the AFL they have pretty much swapped expected roles which is bizarre and for me completely unexpected.
 

Cripptonite

Team Captain
Sep 11, 2016
389
1,714
AFL Club
Carlton
Disappointing news with Papley. Reckon the Swans will regret keeping him. They had a chance to accelerate their rebuild but instead they are tracking down the path of no man’s land. They will do a North once Kennedy and Parker retire.

For us we now turn our attention to gun midfielders. Opens up the possibility of Wines, Williams, Kelly, Cogs.

We need another small forward though. Eddie can barely run these days. We can’t be expecting Honey or Owies to step in next year and dominate. We need a senior experienced player ready to step in. Not convinced on the inexperienced Ian Hill or Petrucelle types. Maybe a Breust or Sexton type player could be getable?
 

Opine

Premium Gold
Aug 30, 2018
5,274
10,232
AFL Club
Carlton
I can't say that I'm disappointed at Paps not wanting to join the Blues. But it's necessary to ask why? was our newly formed crack recruiting committee unimpressive in its pitch? I'll have to ponder this for a little while. I'll be back.
 

chunkylover53

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 13, 2008
5,824
12,060
From Where You'd Rather Be
AFL Club
Carlton
With Papley gone do you actually think we have the answer with our #25 as a small-fwd for a 2021 finals side?

Do we actually think Zac Fisher as a small fwd will get 35+ goals a season?
Fisher and Gibbons can kick 40+ between them I reckon, good return.

Have a look at the top clubs, then look at their small forwards - anything special there?

Port have Gray who has only kicked 15 goals
Geelong have Miers who has kicked 16
Richmond have Castagna and Bolton who have kicked 12 and 13 respectively

The only argument in your favour is Charlie Cameron who is leading Brisbane's goals with 25.

Castagna was Richmonds leading small forward in their Premiership year last year and kicked 27 goals.

Small forward is honestly the most overrated position in footy - you don't need a star small forward. Why do you think small forwards seem to pop up from the rookie draft? They're a product of their system.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

HavUEvaSeenTheRain

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 20, 2006
5,851
6,860
AFL Club
Carlton
Out curiosity, given his name gets frequently thrown up in discussion- what do people think that Petruccelle would add to our side, beyond being fast?
From my viewing - he plays scared, doesn't tackle, doesn't create opportunities and isn't a great user of the footy.
You pretty much described Dow. Speed like his (and Dow’s) is a massive and rare weapon
 

Jeremias

Moderator
Sep 26, 2004
37,999
38,009
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
MUFC, LAL, PSG
Disappointing news with Papley. Reckon the Swans will regret keeping him. They had a chance to accelerate their rebuild but instead they are tracking down the path of no man’s land. They will do a North once Kennedy and Parker retire.
Disagree with this.

IMO Sydney have significantly more to look forward to over the next few years. They have many more good young kids than North do.
 

Cripptonite

Team Captain
Sep 11, 2016
389
1,714
AFL Club
Carlton
I can't say that I'm disappointed at Paps not wanting to join the Blues. But it's necessary to ask why? was our newly formed crack recruiting committee team unimpressive in its pitch? I'll have to ponder this for a little while. I'll be back.
Swans wanted too much and were not budging. They also most likely offered him extra benefits to stay, wouldn’t be surprised if they made him captain next year similar to Coniglio.
 

Opine

Premium Gold
Aug 30, 2018
5,274
10,232
AFL Club
Carlton
Swans wanted too much and were not budging. They also most likely offered him extra benefits to stay, wouldn’t be surprised if they made him captain next year similar to Coniglio.
Yes, but Swans asking price and Paps desire are 2 separate issues. I think each issue needs to be addressed individualy.
 

JD_2020

Cancelled
Sep 14, 2020
57
39
AFL Club
Carlton
Fisher and Gibbons can kick 40+ between them I reckon, good return.

Have a look at the top clubs, then look at their small forwards - anything special there?

Port have Gray who has only kicked 15 goals
Geelong have Miers who has kicked 16
Richmond have Castagna and Bolton who have kicked 12 and 13 respectively

The only argument in your favour is Charlie Cameron who is leading Brisbane's goals with 25.

Castagna was Richmonds leading small forward in their Premiership year last year and kicked 27 goals.

Small forward is honestly the most overrated position in footy - you don't need a star small forward. Why do you think small forwards seem to pop up from the rookie draft? They're a product of their system.
I'd be surprised to see a goal a game out of him. Gibbons does more work up the field so even though I rate him I think 30-35 between them max. With Eddie's goals potentially drying up more or being gone all together it's very obvious why we targeted Papley.

If he is fit and doing okay in the SANFL we should take another look at Lowson. I agree it's an area we can target with later or mature picks. But converting a small-mid into a small-fwd isn't going to work. All of the players you mentioned are naturals down there. They were drafted as HFF who pinch hit in the mids. Fisher from memory is an out and out mid during his colt years.
 

Cripptonite

Team Captain
Sep 11, 2016
389
1,714
AFL Club
Carlton
Disagree with this.

IMO Sydney have significantly more to look forward to over the next few years. They have many more good young kids than North do.
Swans kids are overrated in my opinion. Hayward and Florent are very average but get talked up because they’re young. Blakey is a whipping boy. Heeney is good but is no saviour (he’s also in his prime). Their midfield is very weak besides those two experienced players. Also have the worst rucks in the league with GWS. Rampe also holds their backline together.
 

JD_2020

Cancelled
Sep 14, 2020
57
39
AFL Club
Carlton
Swans kids are overrated in my opinion. Hayward and Florent are very average but get talked up because they’re young. Blakey is a whipping boy. Heeney is good but is no saviour (he’s also in his prime). Their midfield is very weak besides those two experienced players. Also have the worst rucks in the league with GWS. Rampe also holds their backline together.
Its a half disagree. Strongly too. Hayward I agree with. But Florent would be great for us.
 

mochacinolatte

Premiership Player
Mar 6, 2018
3,960
11,320
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Timberwolves(RIP), Baghdad Bombers
With Papley gone do you actually think we have the answer with our #25 as a small-fwd for a 2021 finals side?

Do we actually think Zac Fisher as a small fwd will get 35+ goals a season?
This is your original post.

Players with less than 10 disposals yesterday (excluding Doc)

Betts: 0.2 could go on since there's no small fwd on the list pushing him
McKay: 4.1
McGovern: non existent for a half
Fisher: 8 touches & 0 tackles. At 22 he is surely up for trade
O'Brien: 7 touches, 2 tackles & 1 nice goal. First game back needs another year. Lack of wings in scratch matches really hurt his year. Would give 1 more year. Walsh on one wing, LOB on the other is still a small chance of coming off.

We don't have much trade value. I'd hate to say it but we'd get massive unders on Dow but would still cut our losses if it meant a pick in the 20s which we could trade for a 23+ year old. We need more mids who even on an off day are getting 15+ touches at a minimum, not under 10.
Exactly who do you trade him for? You have not brought any alternative solution yet you make a speculative claims that has no answers to the list holes that we have is that we do not have a small forward. How is that productive into the current situation. Fisher has been playing midfield until this year when Teague has asked him to play the small forward role this year for the team.

I provided stats that he has been doing similar to other small forwards in the league, so as a first year playing small forward he is doing well.

That stats you brought up has been conveniently his worse game this year coming off a shoulder injury mid first qtr, hence I believe you just look at stats and not watch the games.

With Papley gone do you actually think we have the answer with our #25 as a small-fwd for a 2021 finals side?

Do we actually think Zac Fisher as a small fwd will get 35+ goals a season?
This is his first year playing a small forward, all we know is he can do that role. If he spends a pre-season learning to be a small forward he could be that 35+ a year forward.
 

Cripptonite

Team Captain
Sep 11, 2016
389
1,714
AFL Club
Carlton
Yes, but Swans asking price and Paps desire are 2 separate issues. I think each issue needs to be addressed individualy.
They two are linked. There would be talks happening behind closed doors and it became obvious Carlton and Sydney were too far off on agreeing a deal to even ask the question this year and go through trade week with uncertainty and damaging his reputation with another failed trade. As Ricky Mott suggested last week Sydney wanted two first rounders plus one of Harry Charlie or TDK

It’s not like he was available and selected a different Vic club. His manager also said he would stay with Sydney for 2021 (not Swan for life).
 

JD_2020

Cancelled
Sep 14, 2020
57
39
AFL Club
Carlton
Exactly who do you trade him for? You have not brought any alternative solution yet you make a speculative claims that has no answers to the list holes that we have is that we do not have a small forward. How is that productive into the current situation. Fisher has been playing midfield until this year when Teague has asked him to play the small forward role this year for the team.

I provided stats that he has been doing similar to other small forwards in the league, so as a first year playing small forward he is doing well.

That stats you brought up has been conveniently his worse game this year coming off a shoulder injury mid first qtr, hence I believe you just look at stats and not watch the games.
You dont trade players who have shown nothing. Put his name out there and see if there is any takers. WCE throw up Petrucelle then consider it. Doubt Freo would bother. Doubt he'd go to a non-Vic club that isn't back home. Future 2nd round pick perhaps if the next draft looks good?

People get so defensive of our list like its actually their own child or has delivered exceptional results. If there are no takers he comes back and tries to make a C-grade career as a small forward or he improves out of sight. He isn't a write off and with no Papley coming in he'll get 15-22 games next year for an at worst C-grade year or he improves out of sight and proves me wrong. But we have too many in the "needs to improve another 20%" category to actually take this 7-10 season and turn it into 12+ wins for finals in 2021
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top Bottom