List Mgmt. 2020 List Management

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scblues

Rookie
Feb 3, 2020
23
178
AFL Club
Carlton
If we had to compare Zac Fisher to players from other lists who would we think of in terms of current role & also ideal role?

That under 180cm mid-fwd like a Gresham, Devon Smith or Shai Bolton perhaps? Now look at his output compared to theirs in season 4.

Fisher - 13.4 touches a game regressing for a 2nd consecutive year
Gresham - breakout year 20+ touches a game
Smith - down from his breakout year but still 19.1
Shai Bolton - breakout year 16.1

Interestingly all average 0.8 goals a game in their 4th year. Tackles per game 4.9, 3.0, 2.9 & 2.5 (Smith, Gresham, Bolton & Fisher in last place again)
Fisher has not been playing mid all year... He is and will be a small forward.. He actually looks bloody dangerous there when healthy..
Mcgovern is the real worry.. Id play him down back, as forward is not working at all..
Betts is actually one of the main players who set the tone for when we play well.. our delivery to the forwards has been horrible.. Watch yesterdays game again and see how well Mckay played... He was dominant yet we still could not give him space and decent delivery..
 

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scblues

Rookie
Feb 3, 2020
23
178
AFL Club
Carlton
So happy to hear the Papley news.

Honestly we cannot give two firsts for a small forward. Don't care if he wins a Brownlow as a small forward.

Recruiters need to search far and wide because a Papley was a Rookie pickup. Find our own gems.
Completely agree.. I loved the idea last year of papley, but this 2x 1st rounders is an absolute joke.. Thats the old 'carlton' way of trying to buy in players etc.. You just cant do that anymore.. I dont care what arguement you have, paying double never works and cant work in this day and age.. You must recruit via free agents and good trades and draft and develop well.. We as a club have only just worked that out...
 

JD_2020

Cancelled
Sep 14, 2020
57
39
AFL Club
Carlton
Fisher has not been playing mid all year... He is and will be a small forward.. He actually looks bloody dangerous there when healthy..
Mcgovern is the real worry.. Id play him down back, as forward is not working at all..
Betts is actually one of the main players who set the tone for when we play well.. our delivery to the forwards has been horrible.. Watch yesterdays game again and see how well Mckay played... He was dominant yet we still could not give him space and decent delivery..
He isn't a natural small fwd. He has to be a fwd-mid just like Gresham / Bolton. But he doesn't have runs on the board playing higher up either.

If a club didnt come in for him, happy for him to stay. But we need to be offering players with currency which he has a little.
 

HARKER

Hall of Famer
Oct 15, 2008
49,918
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Melbourne
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Carlton
Couldn't see Sydney letting Papley go, and so it is.
Sydney without a face is an issue. Maybe we simply wont see Franklin again.
I wonder whether they gave him some new 'incentives' to stay? Nothing wrong wth that, either.

Apparently Carlton have been talking to Allen Christensen don’t know if his name has been brought up before. Source his brother
Exactly the type.....we don't need.
If we can't find the right players that can impose themselves upon a game, don't take them.
Wth Papley out of frame, I still see us wanting to bring in quality senior experience utilising this years first. Just don't know who that may be.
Do we go back to the Coniglio well? Are we still in love with Wines?

I don't know. Williams has to be the #1 target now and we'll see what we can shake out otherwise.
Just cant get excited for the many names mentioned here over the weeks. Nothing stands out as a 'the difference' type.
 

ABigOlDoofus

All Australian
Aug 20, 2019
683
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If we had to compare Zac Fisher to players from other lists who would we think of in terms of current role & also ideal role?

That under 180cm mid-fwd like a Gresham, Devon Smith or Shai Bolton perhaps? Now look at his output compared to theirs in season 4.

Fisher - 13.4 touches a game regressing for a 2nd consecutive year
Gresham - breakout year 20+ touches a game
Smith - down from his breakout year but still 19.1
Shai Bolton - breakout year 16.1

Interestingly all average 0.8 goals a game in their 4th year. Tackles per game 4.9, 3.0, 2.9 & 2.5 (Smith, Gresham, Bolton & Fisher in last place again)
Fisher is playing full-time forward, Gresh was rotating through the middle, Smith was getting midfield rotations as well, and Bolton is literally playing full time mid this season, not even going forward. Even ignoring the other 3 spending time in the middle, when they did play forward they played high half-forward, which just through the nature of the position plays more up the ground, therefore more possessions. Fisher seems firmly entrenched in a pocket and doesn't play high all that often, Martin and Gibbons seem to have that role.

Not great comparisons.
 

BluesRule

Premiership Player
Dec 16, 2013
3,585
3,983
AFL Club
Carlton
Fisher has not been playing mid all year... He is and will be a small forward.. He actually looks bloody dangerous there when healthy..
Mcgovern is the real worry.. Id play him down back, as forward is not working at all..
Betts is actually one of the main players who set the tone for when we play well.. our delivery to the forwards has been horrible.. Watch yesterdays game again and see how well Mckay played... He was dominant yet we still could not give him space and decent delivery..
With reference to bold above you are asking way too much...
 

JD_2020

Cancelled
Sep 14, 2020
57
39
AFL Club
Carlton
Fisher is playing full-time forward, Gresh was rotating through the middle, Smith was getting midfield rotations as well, and Bolton is literally playing full time mid this season, not even going forward. Even ignoring the other 3 spending time in the middle, when they did play forward they played high half-forward, which just through the nature of the position plays more up the ground, therefore more possessions. Fisher seems firmly entrenched in a pocket and doesn't play high all that often, Martin and Gibbons seem to have that role.

Not great comparisons.
Well its a huge problem if our coaching setup thinks a midfielder like Fisher is a pure fwd pocket!

Even when Fisher was more mid last year his numbers were falling and he was often anonymous.
 

ABigOlDoofus

All Australian
Aug 20, 2019
683
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Well its a huge problem if our coaching setup thinks a midfielder like Fisher is a pure fwd pocket!

Even when Fisher was more mid last year his numbers were falling and he was often anonymous.
Last year was always going to the rough for Fish since he was coming off of a broken leg, so I won't hold a little regression against him.

Additionally, who do you think should replace Fish in a pocket for him to play mid? He's still learning the position and is doing very well considering and we don't have anyone to fill his spot.
 

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JD_2020

Cancelled
Sep 14, 2020
57
39
AFL Club
Carlton
Last year was always going to the rough for Fish since he was coming off of a broken leg, so I won't hold a little regression against him.

Additionally, who do you think should replace Fish in a pocket for him to play mid? He's still learning the position and is doing very well considering and we don't have anyone to fill his spot.
Massive hole in our list but we don't bat deep enough in the midfield. Would rather Owies get games or a kid like Honey out of position in the pocket, with Fisher playing in the same sort of role as Gibbons.
 

JD_2020

Cancelled
Sep 14, 2020
57
39
AFL Club
Carlton
I wonder how much the Swans starting to show signs of life and our 2nd half of the season (and Melb & Essendon's) struggles impacted that. Sydney have been pretty impressive and might not be as far from a rise up than people thought.
 

I bleed Blue

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 3, 2011
8,438
20,020
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
If we had to compare Zac Fisher to players from other lists who would we think of in terms of current role & also ideal role?

That under 180cm mid-fwd like a Gresham, Devon Smith or Shai Bolton perhaps? Now look at his output compared to theirs in season 4.

Fisher - 13.4 touches a game regressing for a 2nd consecutive year
Gresham - breakout year 20+ touches a game
Smith - down from his breakout year but still 19.1
Shai Bolton - breakout year 16.1

Interestingly all average 0.8 goals a game in their 4th year. Tackles per game 4.9, 3.0, 2.9 & 2.5 (Smith, Gresham, Bolton & Fisher in last place again)
Aveaged over 19 touches in his 2nd year getting midfield minutes.

Last year Teague moved him away from the midfield to go with experienced mids.

This year he has been injured (only played 7 games.

Fisher has quicker hands and a quicker mind than anyone in our side.

Give him full time midfield minutes and I'm sure he will average 25+ next year.

Unfortunately our forward stocks are low and he's being made to play there.

Get him around the ball and watch him blossom.

Absolutely would not trade him
 

JD_2020

Cancelled
Sep 14, 2020
57
39
AFL Club
Carlton
Aveaged over 19 touches in his 2nd year getting midfield minutes.

Last year Teague moved him away from the midfield to go with experienced mids.

This year he has been injured (only played 7 games.

Fisher has quicker hands and a quicker mind than anyone in our side.

Give him full time midfield minutes and I'm sure he will average 25+ next year.

Unfortunately our forward stocks are low and he's being made to play there.

Get him around the ball and watch him blossom.

Absolutely would not trade him
If the coaches dont see him as a mid then he is a C-grade small fwd. Would be better trading him to a club that sees him as a mid and who might give us a piece of the puzzle we need, a competent small-fwd or a mid that we rate.
 

chunkylover53

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 13, 2008
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don't mind fish as a small forward. played with one arm yesterday.

he's dangerous as hell and can open things up with his work in traffic, quick hands and unpredictable left foot.

small forwards are often a product of their system, fish firing in an actual functioning forward line would be unreal. happy for him to push up the ground as a high forward and a stint in the middle, but i reckon he's found his spot down there.
 

I bleed Blue

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 3, 2011
8,438
20,020
Melbourne
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Carlton
If the coaches dont see him as a mid then he is a C-grade small fwd. Would be better trading him to a club that sees him as a mid and who might give us a piece of the puzzle we need, a competent small-fwd or a mid that we rate.
Maybe they do see him as a mid but want to develop other areas of his game?

We are not privvy to why they are playing him there.

He was recruited as a mid and played there his first 2 years.

He's a mid.
 
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