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FRUMPY

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 18, 2006
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Maybe they do see him as a mid but want to develop other areas of his game?

We are not privvy to why they are playing him there.

He was recruited as a mid and played there his first 2 years.

He's a mid.
From what teague said they had to convince fisher to play the small forward role, he was totally against it. And i dont blame fisher, be much better as a HFF/Wing role (along with SPS and cuners)
 

JD_2020

Cancelled
Sep 14, 2020
57
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AFL Club
Carlton
don't mind fish as a small forward. played with one arm yesterday.

he's dangerous as hell and can open things up with his work in traffic, quick hands and unpredictable left foot.

small forwards are often a product of their system, fish firing in an actual functioning forward line would be unreal. happy for him to push up the ground as a high forward and a stint in the middle, but i reckon he's found his spot down there.
He has hit the scoreboard in 4 out of 8 games, with goals in just 3/8
 

JD_2020

Cancelled
Sep 14, 2020
57
39
AFL Club
Carlton
Maybe they do see him as a mid but want to develop other areas of his game?

We are not privvy to why they are playing him there.

He was recruited as a mid and played there his first 2 years.

He's a mid.
He has been shoehorned as a fwd pocket by our brains trust. For what reason?
Up his pressure? His tackle stats are getting worse.
Up his score involvements with these famed brilliant skills? Also down.
 

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JD_2020

Cancelled
Sep 14, 2020
57
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nice you can read a stat sheets
People think talking about trading someone is the end of them, but it's just that they clearly can play but aren't in our top half dozen or in Fisher's case top 10.

Need to offer someone with best 22 exposed form at some point to get anything decent in return. Fisher can play. He just hasn't developed well enough the past 18 months, he still might.

Can't be offering guys like LOB, Lang & Finbar up we'd be lucky to get a Tasmanian Devil tazo in return. And someone like Dow we'd get way less than he may be worth because he showed nothing.
 

AndyLucimitis

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 14, 2002
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Disappointed but not overly surprised by the Papley news.

On to the next target.


Love the Herald Sun take "Papley snubs the Blues" - yes- no mention of ludicrous Swans demands. Think you'll find the clubs have been talking and maybe Carlton and Swans/Papley realised a deal was never going to get done so Pap didn't want to go through same thing as last year.
 

mochacinolatte

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Mar 6, 2018
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People think talking about trading someone is the end of them, but it's just that they clearly can play but aren't in our top half dozen or in Fisher's case top 10.

Need to offer someone with best 22 exposed form at some point to get anything decent in return. Fisher can play. He just hasn't developed well enough the past 18 months, he still might.

Can't be offering guys like LOB, Lang & Finbar up we'd be lucky to get a Tasmanian Devil tazo in return. And someone like Dow we'd get way less than he may be worth because he showed nothing.
You are just posting Fisher's stats with nothing worth of discussion.

Okay you post his stats? Who are you measuring his stat against? Have you taken into account that lower game time has impacted the overall averages of players in the league? Have you notice he has a role change playing the small fwd instead of the midfield minutes in his previous years?

Pointless post.
 

Banga19

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Aug 6, 2007
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Not worried about Fisher. He should be a starting forward for us and can play midfield minutes, one of our few younger guys who can play forward/mid effectively. He at least looks dangerous and creative in the forward line.

I wonder if we have missed a trick with Cuningham this season by not giving him more midfield time. He looks much better up the ground and has all the tools. He could be a gun mid in my eyes, if he wants it enough. Hopefully after getting his first extended run at it this season, he has a big off season and demands a spot in the midfield. Trade/draft important, but development from the 20-24 years is where the most of our improvement will come from IMO.
 

scblues

Rookie
Feb 3, 2020
23
178
AFL Club
Carlton
don't mind fish as a small forward. played with one arm yesterday.

he's dangerous as hell and can open things up with his work in traffic, quick hands and unpredictable left foot.

small forwards are often a product of their system, fish firing in an actual functioning forward line would be unreal. happy for him to push up the ground as a high forward and a stint in the middle, but i reckon he's found his spot down there.
Totally agree.. Doubt he has the body for midfield and his smarts is perfect for a small forward type role.. Just needs a better delivery and system in general and then just games.. he looks very dangerous imo..
 

JD_2020

Cancelled
Sep 14, 2020
57
39
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Carlton
You are just posting Fisher's stats with nothing worth of discussion.

Okay you post his stats? Who are you measuring his stat against? Have you taken into account that lower game time has impacted the overall averages of players in the league? Have you notice he has a role change playing the small fwd instead of the midfield minutes in his previous years?

Pointless post.
He is a forward with goals in 3 out of 8 games. How's that for his revised role and how he is going?

Again, I'm not saying he is a write off to be delisted. But a player down 2 years in a row that might be of interest elsewhere. Somewhere where he might play in a role he isn't a C or D-grader at
 

Blue__Balls

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 22, 2014
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Not surprised by the Papley news - though a little disappointed as I do think if he'd really pushed for a trade again he'd have been gettable for a single first rounder. Good to know now, at least, so we can focus our attention elsewhere.

I'm assuming the Toby Mclean injury pretty well eliminates our interest there. Looked horrible, and at the very least he misses the majority of the preseason, if not all of next year as well. No trading in players to run their rehab, thanks.

All in on Williams, you'd assume.
Take a cheeky look at Viney to see if he's gettable. Unlikely, but I'd take him in a heartbeat.
Absolutely open to any of Graham, Witherden and Lonie for later picks. Unlikely to secure all three, two would be nice, one would be fine. We've got alternatives on our list (Dow/Stocker/Kemp/Cunners for the middle, Honey/Owies for the pocket, Marchbank/O'Brien/Cottrell for the back flank), but the three from other sides offer more immediate output.
And yeah, make a play for one of Gunston or Breust in an extension of Eddie's role for a few years.

Kreuzer is out. Betts should call time. Simmo only plays on if he understands that he's depth (try to get him to 350 games and give him a farewell in front of a crowd).
Fisher and SPS to relocate to the middle during the off-season. One gets a starting spot, the other fighting for a bench possie.
McGovern on the trade table if it gets another deal done.

Plowman, Jones, Docherty
Witherden, Weitering, Williamson
Walsh, Setterfield, Williams
TDK, Cripps, Fisher
Martin, Casboult, Gunston/Breust
McKay, Curnow, Lonie
I/C from: Ed, Murph, Newnes, Gibbons, Silvagni, Graham, Cottrell, O'Brien, SPS, Dow, Stocker, Kemp, Marchbank, Cunners, Philp, Honey, Owies, Simmo*

Our backline has strong leaders already, needs a better offensive weapon than SPS (who can, of course, rotate through there).
The midfield needs that point of difference. Dow still has a question mark, but I think TDK, Cripps, Setters and Fisher is a balanced combination.
Forward line has talent, but still needs a leader to keep it organised. One of the Hawthorn guys would be ideal.
Lots of options for the bench, and depth for all lines pending form.
 

chunkylover53

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Aug 13, 2008
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He has hit the scoreboard in 4 out of 8 games, with goals in just 3/8
with one bag of 4 in an utterly dysfunctional forward line. what are his score involvements? he adds plenty of zip down there and only got asked to play there this year post-injury. I like him there, looks dangerous every time he gets near it.

He's too small for a modern-day midfielder. Same as SPS.

Look at Ports midfield - Boak, Rockliff, Wines. Richmonds - Dusty, Prestia, Graham, Cotchin. All big agile bodies. Fish is 177cm ffs, how is he meant to line up against those blokes and have an impact? He got moved from the midfield because he's too small in the modern era, simple. He needs to re-invent himself, which he is.

Imagine lining up in a final against someone like the Dogs and Fish is standing next to Bont or Macrae, I mean seriously.
 

mochacinolatte

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Mar 6, 2018
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He is a forward with goals in 3 out of 8 games. How's that for his revised role and how he is going?

Again, I'm not saying he is a write off to be delisted. But a player down 2 years in a row that might be of interest elsewhere. Somewhere where he might play in a role he isn't a C or D-grader at
1. Correction 6 out of 8 games.

Papely 5 out of his last 8 games.
Walters 7 out of his last 8 games.
Cameron 10 out of his last 8 games.
Castagna 4 out of his last 8 games.
Miers 10 out of his last 8 games.

I would say he has been performing decently, given that he has been one of the newer forwards been kicking goals.
 

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JD_2020

Cancelled
Sep 14, 2020
57
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1. Correction 6 out of 8 games.

Papely 5 out of his last 8 games.
Walters 7 out of his last 8 games.
Cameron 10 out of his last 8 games.
Castagna 4 out of his last 8 games.
Miers 10 out of his last 8 games.

I would say he has been performing decently, given that he has been one of the newer forwards been kicking goals.
He has 6 goals in 8 games. And 4 in one game. So he has hit the goals 3 times
 

mochacinolatte

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He has 6 goals in 8 games. And 4 in one game. So he has hit the goals 3 times
So you want to magically take away 4 goals in a game then?

Alright let me revised that list.

Papely 5 out of his last 8 games.
Walters 4 out of his last 8 games. (If you take one of his 1 x 3 goal performance)
Cameron 6 out of his last 8 games. (If you take one of his 1 x 4 goal performance)
Castagna 4 out of his last 8 games.
Miers 6 out of his last 8 games. (if you take one of his 1 x 4 goal performance)

Still performing.

No. of goals hit per game.
Papely 4 out of his last 8 games.
Walters 3 out of his last 8 games.
Cameron 5 out of his last 8 games.
Castagna 3 out of his last 8 games.
Miers 5 out of his last 8 games.

Still performing
 

CJMB

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Aug 30, 2017
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Fisher has not been playing mid all year... He is and will be a small forward.. He actually looks bloody dangerous there when healthy..
Mcgovern is the real worry.. Id play him down back, as forward is not working at all..
Betts is actually one of the main players who set the tone for when we play well.. our delivery to the forwards has been horrible.. Watch yesterdays game again and see how well Mckay played... He was dominant yet we still could not give him space and decent delivery..
think JD is just looking at the disposal stats on the afl app and making his assumptions from there.

Horrible is an understatement. Our i50s have been predominantly putrid.

On McKay... how many times did Levi go up for the same ball? Felt like Levi made a mess of a quite a few contests when he should have kept out.
 

CJMB

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SOS fell asleep at the wheel re Papley.
The offer had been accepted, Swans were floating our pick to * as part of the Daniher deal, but the bloody Dodo made a mess of the whole thing and Swans were never letting Papley go without bringing in a high profile player to balance the equation.

I'm not sure what else he could have done without selling the farm?
 

gbatman

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Mar 26, 2008
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I can see Cas considering offers from a long term security perspective. A fit Charlie in, and Gov getting games, is likely to see him out of the 22, particularly if the MC goes with Pitto and TDK as a ruck duo.

Betts isn’t hitting the scoreboard but is up there with goal assists. Still top 2/3 for goals scored. Is judged by his career. Until someone of equal or better value comes along, I can see him continuing to get games.

Gov wouldn’t fetch up in a trade imo. If performance alone is a guide, he’s worth a 3rd rounder. Charlie back next year is his final chance; otherwise switch him to defence

Marchy is the most important you’ve named that imo we must retain. Cunners needs to play in the right position so we can extract the best out of him.

Kennedy won’t fetch up. Dow and LOB may well look around if they fell they’re not getting opportunities. Neither have set the world on fire. If they stick around, an uninterrupted COVID free season next year and in their 4th year will show us where exactly they sit for our future.
Casboult is in the wrong age bracket and probably isn't helping our problems with run. He's still playing a role and still ok but just isn't the future. I could see a challenging team who doesn't have much marking power forward like Collingwood having a look there.

Gov has played footy. I think his poor performances are more about how we are using him and how we structure. I guy like him isn't going to kick goals in a crowded forward line because we will bomb it to the tallest players all the time and he isn't one of them. Our game plan involves leaving the forward closer to home and that sounds good and sometimes it is but a lot of the time it's not. It allows the opposition to clog up the forward line and push numbers back too easily and that's what we see against us all the time. Teams who push their forward high up the ground and demand they run back hard into the space are the teams who open their forward line up and that's what we need to do to be able to use someone like McGovern. Yes McGovern should be able to get a kick up the ground but our tactics and how we use him is also a problem there. Would not be surprised if a team recognised all of this, they have seen him play good footy before and they had a set on having him.

Marchbank is more injury prone than Curnow who hasn't really been injury prone, he's just had a couple of long term injuries and a lot of bad luck compared to MArchbank who gets new and different injuries a lot. Curnow is potentially the best forward in the game and far more likely to recover and be injury free than Marchbank. No disputing his ability but if he's going to be injured all the time then he's no value to us.

Kennedy wouldn't fetch much but could see someone like Essendon having a dabble there, could be a later 2nd or 3rd round pick that could have some value in what is likely going to be a lucky dip kind of draft. Dow and O'Brien, this is the last chance we get to trade them before it becomes obvious they aren't going to make it or they do make it. There is a big call there. Neither will be big name players in the game you wouldn't think. They pretty much have to make it next season or they aren't worth persisting with. Real make or break for those two players.

The problem with Betts is the same problem with Casboult. We need to play young players to develop them. You see Betts was nothing special when he started out but he had some ability and we were a terrible side so we gave him games and he developed into a good player because of that. Now look at how things are, a player like Betts would be playing in the seconds because we have an older player playing ok footy in the seniors. Same with Casboult. He's going to stunt the development of TDK.

There comes a time when even though your good old players are still going ok that it's time for them to go so you can get young guys into the team and develop them. Simpson is another. He's one of the old boys who is playing fantastic footy but I don't want to see him getting a game ahead of Kemp, Williamson or SPS next season.

Time is going to come when the coach is going to have to play young players and just wear it that they won't be as good as Simpson, Betts or Casboult for a little while.
 

smashbox gill

Premiership Player
Jun 25, 2008
3,490
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Carlton
B: Doc Jones Plow
HB: Willow Weitering Witherden
C: Walsh Cripps SPS
HF: Martin Curnow Cuningham
FF: Fisher McKay JSOS
R: TDK Z.Williams Setterfield

I/C: Curnow, Dow, Newnes, Gibbons


Hope this is how we line up next year picking up Witherden & Z. Williams.
Simmo, McGov, Murphy out.
Havent included Marchbank as he's always injured.
 

Talrahir

Team Captain
Oct 20, 2016
330
872
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Carlton
He can stay. He is AFL quality and he has the potential to be an important part of our side.

That doesn’t mean he needs to play ones every week and it doesn’t mean he has justified his contract. Hopefully a pay cut and some performance based incentives will give him the kick in the ass he needs.
I honestly think that genuine selection pressure will sort out most of our issues here.
 

BlueJet

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 16, 2009
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Out curiosity, given his name gets frequently thrown up in discussion- what do people think that Petruccelle would add to our side, beyond being fast?
From my viewing - he plays scared, doesn't tackle, doesn't create opportunities and isn't a great user of the footy.
 

JD_2020

Cancelled
Sep 14, 2020
57
39
AFL Club
Carlton
So you want to magically take away 4 goals in a game then?

Alright let me revised that list.

Papely 5 out of his last 8 games.
Walters 4 out of his last 8 games. (If you take one of his 1 x 3 goal performance)
Cameron 6 out of his last 8 games. (If you take one of his 1 x 4 goal performance)
Castagna 4 out of his last 8 games.
Miers 6 out of his last 8 games. (if you take one of his 1 x 4 goal performance)

Still performing.

No. of goals hit per game.
Papely 4 out of his last 8 games.
Walters 3 out of his last 8 games.
Cameron 5 out of his last 8 games.
Castagna 3 out of his last 8 games.
Miers 5 out of his last 8 games.

Still performing
I said all along he hit the scoreboard in 3 out of his last 8 games as a small fwd. Awful return.

6 goals in 8 games isn't in question.
 
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