List Mgmt. 2020 List Management

[TheKITC]

I don't want to sound like a broken record, but I would rather spend money on almost anyone other than Brad Crouch.

- He has legitimately completed two seasons total, in his 8 year career and missed a full season of footy twice. Body is made of absolute tissue paper and you wouldn't think he is going to get more durable. He cannot be trusted physically and especially on the money he would want, regardless of how much we have.
- His disposal is pretty bad. The amount of turnovers and clangers he has and the way he blasts those big high, looping kicks out of packs; it's a massive draw back for mine. He is basically a slightly more polished Mitch Robinson from this regard except he doesn't kick as many goals. If you can't kick, you can't play and you certainly shouldn't be one of our top earners (which he would be if we got him).
- Where is his hurt factor? Sure he is a good accumulator, but it kind of ends there... I guess he tackles pretty well? He doesn't kick goals and he turns over the pill. Doesn't really scream the type of player you go after on big money.

I just don't want him. I'd rather wait another year if it meant keeping the money for someone who is going to help our team move forward... He isn't the answer for mine unless he came at market unders... Like big unders.

 

[HBF]

Such a tantalising prospect.
Have only seen glimpses in the draft profile videos, but his combination of size and power in a mid/utility is really something we desperately need.
Equally the way the coaches/fitness staff rave about his commitment to recovery is a great sign. From all reports he’s quite sure of himself, but confidence is not a bad thing.

This is what I really like about him as well. Size plus power.
Can't wait to see him play next year.

 

[HBF]

Definitely, and we would take it and run but his value isn’t much given he hasn’t been fully fit since midway through 2017.

If we are going to get Papley it will need to be for at least one first round pick. Our first this (say 5) for Papley and something like Sydney’s second or third is even value.

I concur with others though: a small forward isn’t a pressing need. We need to go after at least one B+/A grade midfielder in the right age bracket. If that is Crouch, we can add both him and Papley.

I think we need to make a big play for Crouch. He'll be 27 by the time next year come around, so he's the right age mid we are after. Being a FA helps as well.
I'd still target Papley as well, and surely our first rounder this year will be on the table again.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I don't want to sound like a broken record, but I would rather spend money on almost anyone other than Brad Crouch.

- He has legitimately completed two seasons total, in his 8 year career and missed a full season of footy twice. Body is made of absolute tissue paper and you wouldn't think he is going to get more durable. He cannot be trusted physically and especially on the money he would want, regardless of how much we have.
- His disposal is pretty bad. The amount of turnovers and clangers he has and the way he blasts those big high, looping kicks out of packs; it's a massive draw back for mine. He is basically a slightly more polished Mitch Robinson from this regard except he doesn't kick as many goals. If you can't kick, you can't play and you certainly shouldn't be one of our top earners (which he would be if we got him).
- Where is his hurt factor? Sure he is a good accumulator, but it kind of ends there... I guess he tackles pretty well? He doesn't kick goals and he turns over the pill. Doesn't really scream the type of player you go after on big money.

I just don't want him. I'd rather wait another year if it meant keeping the money for someone who is going to help our team move forward... He isn't the answer for mine unless he came at market unders... Like big unders.

Fair enough if you just don’t rate him, we all have players like that.
For me I like him because he is a strong body and has a good burst of speed. Get him and we instantly have two very good mids to build around and because he is reasonably balanced any young mid we add to him and Cripps still looks good on paper. We probably won’t be overpaying him anymore then we will have for someone like Setterfield or even Marchbank and we overpay them because we think they might come good.

Also the biggest reason is I think paying an extra $200k to him could in the long run save a heap of money by making us a better side sooner. We all know good teams don’t have to pay their players or recruits as much because people want to leave. Now that we have talent on our list the quicker we become good the better. Who knows even someone like Rockcliff who most of us weren’t too upset about missing, may have won us a couple of those close games last year and that may have swayed someone like Coniglio (insert any name) to come over.

 

[gbatman]

Crouch as a RFA would be a good get if he's fit and comes across and plays good footy.

Think there will be a fair cleanout at Carlton, plenty out of contract and a new list manager.

 

[Sharks On A Plane]

+1 for getting Crouch. Will be very easy to move given the current landscape at the Crows and he instantly makes our midfield better and more consistent.

Papley and Crouch would be a terrific haul. Zac Williams on top of that would be entering the realm of fantasy, but make it happen SOS Cain!

 

[SurreyBlue]

Crouch as a RFA would be a good get if he's fit and comes across and plays good footy.

Think there will be a fair cleanout at Carlton, plenty out of contract and a new list manager.

Issue is that we aren't and shouldn't be in clean out mode. We should be at list strength.and depth.
If we do indeed clean out - then we have failed to either develop or draft/trade over the past 3 years.
I have my thoughts but either way, we have failed the 'reset' if we go down the clean out path come years end and that is a serious concern for our club.

 

[DangerousD]

I don't want to sound like a broken record, but I would rather spend money on almost anyone other than Brad Crouch.

- He has legitimately completed two seasons total, in his 8 year career and missed a full season of footy twice. Body is made of absolute tissue paper and you wouldn't think he is going to get more durable. He cannot be trusted physically and especially on the money he would want, regardless of how much we have.
- His disposal is pretty bad. The amount of turnovers and clangers he has and the way he blasts those big high, looping kicks out of packs; it's a massive draw back for mine. He is basically a slightly more polished Mitch Robinson from this regard except he doesn't kick as many goals. If you can't kick, you can't play and you certainly shouldn't be one of our top earners (which he would be if we got him).
- Where is his hurt factor? Sure he is a good accumulator, but it kind of ends there... I guess he tackles pretty well? He doesn't kick goals and he turns over the pill. Doesn't really scream the type of player you go after on big money.

I just don't want him. I'd rather wait another year if it meant keeping the money for someone who is going to help our team move forward... He isn't the answer for mine unless he came at market unders... Like big unders.

Sorry to be pedantic, but when you use stats and figures to amplify or justify a stance on someone, they need to be correct. Crouch has played 7 season of football, not 8, adding a whole season skews all data to paint a more negative picture.

 

[Blue Pulse]

Unless Papley quits the Swans, I can't see us getting him. I think he still has 2 years left on his extension contract, clubs don't just give away players like him. The Swans have to remain relevant in Sydney, if Papley goes it will upset supporters unless they get a farm for him.

 

[BlueBlood15]

We should be getting into the ear of Zac Williams and Brad Crouch now. Personally, I’d prefer Williams but would take either at the right price. I think Williams will be cheaper and I really rate his combination of toughness and speed. We need more of both. Either way, I think we need to finally snag a free agent.

As we all know, free agency has helped the powerful clubs at the top of the ladder and hurt the lesser clubs. We’ve really got nothing out of it since it’s inception. Too many times have a Hawthorn or Richmond snagged an A grader for nothing. We’ve got the money in the cap but we need to back that up with a strong season this year so we can sell future success. It will help if we see significant strides from our youngsters so we can sell these guys on a strong team going forward. If we can snag one of these two, front load the contract while we still have space in the cap.

 

[Michael Jezz]

Here's my view on List Management -

A couple of years ago we were sold the meme of being a united club - Every pillar in its right place; President, Coach, CEO, Football Manager and List Manager.
A couple of years on and only one of the five pillars remains and he's on the way out also.........not exactly a showcase of unity now, is it?

Get these ducks in a row and we'll be heading in the right direction, but as things stand, no Ollie Wines is going to make a difference in the long run.
We have some ay to go upon my viewing, regardless of how well we may finish this year off. Negative? Maybe. Realistic? I think so.

Your post raises massive questions about the president. He is ok but done his time

 

[gbatman]

Issue is that we aren't and shouldn't be in clean out mode. We should be at list strength.and depth.
If we do indeed clean out - then we have failed to either develop or draft/trade over the past 3 years.
I have my thoughts but either way, we have failed the 'reset' if we go down the clean out path come years end and that is a serious concern for our club.

We've done a lot of good work building our list but the size of the job should not be underestimated. There are some holes in the list which we may not have filled and there are some players we probably don't need.

Why there could be a list clean out is with the older players and the ones who are not quite up to it along with the injury prone ones. We have a hell of a lot out of contract this season. The other clean out aspect could be trades.

We are probably two or three really good players away from being a really good side so a cleanout does not mean at all that the list build is a failure, it just means the list is due for a good trim which is something sides at all ends of the ladder do from time to time.

Ben Silvagni will have to show a bit to keep his spot. Another season out injured for Marchbank will likely see him moved on. Moore is fringe at this stage. Polson is likely to be moved on. Lang is borderline. Betts needs to prove he has more footy in him. O'Dwyer needs to make big strides. Macreadie needs to prove his durability and play good footy. Goddard could go either way, he's just backup for now. Newnes could go either way. Simpson will probably retire. If we trade aggressively then Casboult could be involved. Cottrell, Owies, Kennedy and Gibbons need to be playing really good footy. Kreuzer will likely retire. Will Setterfield if he doesn't step up could be the victim of aggressive list management if there are trade avenues.

Depends who we get coming in, who steps up and who other clubs want from us. Trim a lot of these names and it doesn't really affect the best 22-26 players. Particularly if best 22 players are coming in.

Depends how we go getting what we want. New list manager will have different ideas and like different players and I think if we can get in enough good new players there will be a good few going out.

 

[Michael Jezz]

If we lose to Geelong, might as well start preparing for next season. I think its pointless playing the same old players. Need to give youth the rest of the season.

B: Plowman------------------Weitering---------------Newnes

H: Docherty-----------------McGovern--------------Willamson

C: Dow------------------------Cripps-----------------O'Brien

H: Cuningham---------------McKay------------------Martin

F: Betts----------------------DeKoning----------------SPS

Foll: Pittonet, Setterfield, Kennedy

Bench: Stocker, Silvagni, Walsh, Philp

Let's be realistic, the writing is on the wall, 2021 preparations started at 7pm on Saturday night

 

[George]

Aphrodite can you please let your mate Paddy Cripps know that there's a nice warm seat for him waiting at Moorabbin if he holds off on that new deal

Much appreciated

 

[Michael Jezz]

Dow was a number 3 draft pick. Did SOS mess it up?

Yes he got Dow wrong

 

[katmanblue]

I don't want to sound like a broken record, but I would rather spend money on almost anyone other than Brad Crouch.

- He has legitimately completed two seasons total, in his 8 year career and missed a full season of footy twice. Body is made of absolute tissue paper and you wouldn't think he is going to get more durable. He cannot be trusted physically and especially on the money he would want, regardless of how much we have.
- His disposal is pretty bad. The amount of turnovers and clangers he has and the way he blasts those big high, looping kicks out of packs; it's a massive draw back for mine. He is basically a slightly more polished Mitch Robinson from this regard except he doesn't kick as many goals. If you can't kick, you can't play and you certainly shouldn't be one of our top earners (which he would be if we got him).
- Where is his hurt factor? Sure he is a good accumulator, but it kind of ends there... I guess he tackles pretty well? He doesn't kick goals and he turns over the pill. Doesn't really scream the type of player you go after on big money.

I just don't want him. I'd rather wait another year if it meant keeping the money for someone who is going to help our team move forward... He isn't the answer for mine unless he came at market unders... Like big unders.

Yeah another injury prone, high priced addition isn't what we need.

Only way would be if his base salary is low with BIG match payments and bonuses.

On SM-N960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[katmanblue]

I think we need to make a big play for Crouch. He'll be 27 by the time next year come around, so he's the right age mid we are after. Being a FA helps as well.
I'd still target Papley as well, and surely our first rounder this year will be on the table again.

How many full seasons has he played?

On SM-N960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[SurreyBlue]

Yes he got Dow wrong

No he didn't.

 

[HBF]

The same can be said for contracted players, 9 other Victorian clubs targeting the likes of a Papley if he wants back in.

We have enough money, we just need to be a viable option

BTW, we won't finish bottom 6, bookmark it

Wow thats a big call based on our output for the first couple of weeks.

 

[blue healer]

Wow thats a big call based on our output for the first couple of weeks.

Particularly when you consider that we don't have the luxury of playing some of lower clubs twice.

 

[BlueBlood15]

Without going into any great detail, I think the talent acquired on our list, although yet unproven, is likely going to be good enough to drive us up the ladder. A lot of them just need more time to develop. A few high picks will end up busts but that’s the case for all clubs - it’s pretty much impossible to hit on every pick. We just need enough of them to be good enough.

However, the point I really want to make, which is easily overlooked, is whether we’re recruiting guys that can change the culture of the club. I don’t yet have a view on this because it takes time to see what these youngsters become. Ultimately, our success as a club going forward is going to come down to this. I understand that culture is also built from the footy department and the coaching team, but ultimately the players are the ones that have to go out there and get the job done every week.

Hodge, Mitchell, Buddy, Roughy, Lewis etc are all great players but also have the hard edge to them. They took a losing hawthorn culture that had festered for 10 years and turned it into a brutal club. Ditto the Cats with Chapman, Bartel, Johnson, Enright, Scarlett etc. Ditto Richmond with Cotchin, Reiwoldt, Martin, Rance etc.

I’d say Murphy, Gibbs and Kreuz were all very talented players from pretty much day one. They are all fairly well acclaimed over their careers. They aren’t the absolute best of the best, but they were still good picks. However, they weren’t able to turn around our losing culture. I’m not trying to have a go at them for that because the coaching (mainly Mick), the recruiting (2009-2014 drafts) and the senior players when they started really hindered their ability to change the culture.

The question is can Weiters, H, Charlie, JSOS, SPS, Fish, Willo, Dow, O’Brien, Walsh, Stocker, Kemp, Philp etc change the culture? They’ll be led by Crippa and Doc, but ultimately they’ll also have to drive the standards. It doesn’t matter whether Murph, Simmo, Ed, Cas etc buy in because they’ll be all gone soon. They’ll need support from the coaches and footy dept but for me this is the key issue. We can put together a talented list but it won’t mean much unless we learn to be a ruthless club. I cross my fingers and hope.

 

[Gethelred]

Dow will be fine he’s 20yrs old ffs, got some exciting traits, kicking needs work particularly set shots it’s his endurance that is holding his all round game back atm, he seems to be a slower burn developing type it’s just how some kids are...
people see little progress or a bad year from a youngster and automatically declare them no good or a bust way to easy...

It's too, FBB, too!

 

[smashbox gill]

I want us to bring in a player with aggression this offseason. I want someone who will throw their weight around as we are to nice a team - Mitch Robinson type. This is a key reason as to why i want to bring Wines in as i think he can be this type of player.

This is why i wanted to bring in Devon Robertson through the draft last year, a bash and crash type. I think Stocker is that type of player and I have a feeling Kemp will be, but other than that we don't really have anyone.

 

[Aphrodite]

Aphrodite can you please let your mate Paddy Cripps know that there's a nice warm seat for him waiting at Moorabbin if he holds off on that new deal

Much appreciated

 

[Arr0w]

Haven't you got enough on your hands fighting off 'bookmarked' views Arr0w ?

I see us having to get a few things right and we may just start to get a good run at things but injuries........******* injuries.
How to keep our players on the ground is the key to where we'll finish and right now; It's not looking great.

No happy with my predictions in the past

Realistically we are only really missing 2 best 22 players, Fisher and Charlie

We won't finish bottom 4, and I am confident it wont be bottom 6

Percentage will be important this year