List Mgmt. 2020 List Management

[BlueJet]

Easily the second pair - we are currently slow enough as it is.

Papley at his best is a top 5 league small forward, while Wines wouldn't be in the top 20-30 midfielders in the league.

While I don't necessarily disagree with the above, I'm thinking that some are forgetting just how much impact a fit and firing Wines can have.
I'd have him within the top 30 mids and within the top handful of his type.
If we're to address our lack of pace, I'd imagine it'd come at the expense of Kennedy, JSOS, Setterfield or some of our talls rather than as a result of knocking back more talented footballers.

P.Cripps
B.Crouch
Walsh

Wines
SPS
Dow

I understand the desire to acquire Papley but I can't help but be excited by the above midfield rotation, plenty of ball winners and not treacle slow as some may fear.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Can someone confirm McGovern is on $800000 a year if so that’s why our club is the laughing stock of the AFL

Don't really care what we pay our players TBH, it doesn't make them play better or worse. But I always thought it was about 650K.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Can someone confirm McGovern is on $800000 a year if so that’s why our club is the laughing stock of the AFL

I suspect Riccuto three some mayo on it, and perhaps first years front loaded might have come in somewhere around that.. but tbh anything above min chips is over paying for McGovern.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Can someone confirm McGovern is on $800000 a year if so that’s why our club is the laughing stock of the AFL

I imagine if we don’t here it refuted then it is probably fairly accurate. Probably more like a front ended contract where $800k+ was paid at the start.

Edit. Pretty much what IAAM said

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

The reigning premiers have one of the slower midfields in the comp. Between Fish, Dow, Walsh and now Philp + Kemp there is plenty of speed.

The problem is we get absolutely bullied from the get go by bigger bodied players and all it takes is a poor start from Cripps for the kids to drop their heads.

Think Crouch is being underrated a touch too, he isn’t a bnf winner for nothing and has done more than Wines over the last 3 seasons. Being free is a bonus.

 

[Jeremias]

I imagine if we don’t here it refuted then it is probably fairly accurate.

It won't be refuted by the club because it'd be ridiculous for them to be drawn into the discussion.

Would much rather grubs like Ricciuto comment publicly on things he shouldn't. Full damage control mode has been initiated.

 

[SurreyBlue]

Re: McGovern - I thought at the time we overpaid both in dollars and picks. Unfortunately, nothing has changed since.
Desperate to ‘show you are a destination’ club isn’t a reason for overpaying for player, especially one who plays for a position you don’t necessary need to fill.
It’s just decisions such as these that keep highlighting where our club problems really exist.

 

[Pablito]

Roo should look in the mirror when trying to figure out what's wrong with his club. Talking about contracted players at other clubs and their salaries. That tells me everything about the man as an administrator.

 

[katmanblue]

The big bodied midfielder that we are looking for is already on the list and his name is Brodie Kemp

And he is 3 years away from contributing significantly.

On SM-N960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[marcjudd]

Out of all the gws rejects we chased how many are. A b grade. ZERO

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

I want us to bring in a player with aggression this offseason. I want someone who will throw their weight around as we are to nice a team - Mitch Robinson type. This is a key reason as to why i want to bring Wines in as i think he can be this type of player.

This is why i wanted to bring in Devon Robertson through the draft last year, a bash and crash type. I think Stocker is that type of player and I have a feeling Kemp will be, but other than that we don't really have anyone.

Jack Viney (FA) fits the bill as an aggressive, developed midfielder.

The plus side is that he is close friends with Ollie Wines.

 

[OneGreatClub]

Jack Viney (FA) fits the bill as an aggressive, developed midfielder.

The plus side is that he is close friends with Ollie Wines.

Hey, do you think Ollie will still leave?

 

[F_therest]

Or better yet:

Wines & Crouch vs Papley & Crouch

IMO we shouldn't get Crouch at all...even if it doesn't cost us picks he'll cost decent $$$...last year he was apparently chasing $800k+.

As another slow mid who doesn't really play any other positions, he wouldn't function with Cripps at all given Cripps is also quite slow.
I can see the opposition bursting away from stoppages time and time again if Cripps & Crouch are together. We'll become too slow, which is the problem Adelaide have now with the Crouch brothers.

For the kind of money we'd need to give up for him, we'd be far better off chasing someone else.

 

[F_therest]

Jack Viney (FA) fits the bill as an aggressive, developed midfielder.

The plus side is that he is close friends with Ollie Wines.

Viney & Wines? I wonder if we'd be too slow if we're adding them to Cripps & Curnow. Murphy only has 1 year left probably.

Would be a big call for him to leave Melbourne though wouldn't it given his dad's connection? If Wines joined us he'd live in the same city and still get to see him plenty.

 

[La Dispute]

While I don't necessarily disagree with the above, I'm thinking that some are forgetting just how much impact a fit and firing Wines can have.
I'd have him within the top 30 mids and within the top handful of his type.
If we're to address our lack of pace, I'd imagine it'd come at the expense of Kennedy, JSOS, Setterfield or some of our talls rather than as a result of knocking back more talented footballers.

P.Cripps
B.Crouch
Walsh

Wines
SPS
Dow

I understand the desire to acquire Papley but I can't help but be excited by the above midfield rotation, plenty of ball winners and not treacle slow as some may fear.

Have to look at it deductively.

Crouch comes over without having to sacrifice any draft picks. With Wines and Papley we will have to give up a minimum of one first rounder each, so to me if we are looking at balancing our trade assets with list needs it’d be far more effective to add one inside mid with one small forward. One first round draft pick is used, and two quality players in positions of need come into the squad.

The other issue I have with taking two extra inside midfielders is we don’t know how our team will function with both in the team. If we take on Crouch we then have the 2021 season to re-assess our list requirements sit. What if it turns out the squad is too slow with both Crouch and Wines in the 22? It’s too late. As we saw with Adelaide’s slow decline, you certainly can have two many one-paced midfielders in the side, and that can eventually cripple you. I’m starting to see some similarities in Hawthorn’s current midfield. It’s all well and good having a bunch of natural footballers, and we will our fair share of clearances, but we also become very vulnerable on turnover - and it’s not as though we are a pacy team around the ground currently either.

It’s also important to remember we’ve invested in Kemp and Stocker in the past two drafts being built up to play predominantly inside midfield roles. If either one become a part of the regular rotation (with Setterfield, Walsh etc) then along with Cripps and Crouch that mitigates the need for another inside mid.

If we are happy to give up a second first round pick this year I’d rather offer it for Caldwell, who, like Walsh, should end up becoming a very good outside midfielder. I think he will actually be better at the start of the 2021 season.

A midfield of Cripps, Crouch, Walsh, Caldwell and Kemp looks far more dynamic and versatile than Cripps, Crouch, Wines, Walsh and Kemp, and we get a greater return on investment in the long-term, provided Caldwell becomes an influential player; which I anticipate he will be.

 

[F_therest]

I imagine if we don’t here it refuted then it is probably fairly accurate. Probably more like a front ended contract where $800k+ was paid at the start.

Edit. Pretty much what IAAM said

Lol flashbacks to when dumb opposition supporters were all 'Lol Carlton paying Jack Martin $1 million that's why they're trash'...people talking about what we're paying a player in his first year like we're paying them that amount over the whole contract.

 

[Arr0w]

Can someone confirm McGovern is on $800000 a year if so that’s why our club is the laughing stock of the AFL

Sure we are

 

[Jeremias]

Out of all the gws rejects we chased how many are. A b grade. ZERO

Please return to the CFC Facebook page.

You’ll find many fellow melters over there who don’t add anything to the discussion.

 

[Iamcarlton]

Player development is still my ongoing concern, top 10 picks like Dow and LOB really should have come on better than what they have by now.

This has been an ongoing problem at this club for many years, from Shane O'Sullivan through to Wayne Hughes, Rodgers, SOS etc.
Obviously not all of Silvagni's picks are hits, but honestly given the meagre resources of the Northern Blues and our VFL development over the past 15 years, something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

The Geelong model of young player development is something the thinktank/board of this club needs to study extensively and hopefully emulate.

Development is a concern but in the case of Dow and Obrien despite them being top 10 picks imo your being harsh .
Reason being they were and still are physical underdeveloped .
Dow still isnt fit enough nowhere near to be a starting mid in seniors .
And Obrien was too small and was clearly being played when not ready .
Both should have been played predominantly seconds .
Club hasnt done them any favours by pushing them before their time imo .

 

[Kramer1]

I'm a bit bereft of ideas to be honest...

Clearly midfield depth is an issue. The drop off from Cripps back to the limited hurt factor of Murphy and Curnow is extreme, and Walsh is being somewhat exposed with so much being asked of him. Despite many thinking we dodged a bullet, this is where a Shiel (or someone of similar ilk) would be making a huge difference

Development...absolutely no excuses for Dow and O'Brien not to be well entrenched in the team, let alone have the likes of Lang and Gibbons selected ahead of them. For various reasons Setterfield, Fisher, Cuningham, Stocker and to a lesser extend SPS are not hitting the marks we might have expected by now.

ROI - really a function of holding up the ladder for so long, but the guys we have brought in on considerable coin are failing to fire. Marchbank is behind the eight ball yet again, I thought McGovern showed some great signs on Saturday, but we need about 10-12 more of those per game, Kennedy may not play another game. That is about 15% of our salary cap that we are getting SFA from.

A little rust is forgivable, but inability to maintain possession is killing us yet again...when our entire starting midfield (Cripps, Murphy, Curnow, Walsh) are below average by foot (and you can add Doc to the list), we are starting at a significant disadvantage.

And yep, have to give a nod to injury with at least five senior players MIA.

On top of all of that we have to question the coaching set up - our guys are out there doing Tuesday night circle work while the opposition are cracking in. As per forever, we seem to need momentum to generate desire, rather than having desire generate momentum. Not sure how you fix this.

This would typically be the part of the post where I propose some solutions, but yeah nah...nada.

 

[murphster]

We don't have to trade out any of of our required youth to get a player likes of Papley, despite my opinion of him not being our priority when it comes to needs

Target the likes of Zac Williams and or Crouch/Viney, who are FA's

Draft picks/players to give up = zero

Then you have a plethora of OOC players

Yeah I agree on your choices as targets all fill our needs but I just can’t see Williams leaving GWS being an academy graduate and the first one to play for them and being from NSW I hope I’m wrong cause I would love to have him.

The more I think about it and things that I’ve read I am starting to really warm to the idea of Wines, I really think he is ripe for a fresh start and I think we can really bring out the best in him, I reckon Port have played him to heavy for a while now to use him as a pure battering ram and I think Russell could get him slimmed down and moving a lot better, similar to Cripps, add in some sprint work and use his power rather than his weight and he could be revitalised into a very dangerous mid that can drift forward and be dangerous, in summary if we can get him at the right price, which is debatable, he could really add to our midfield in a significant way.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

And he is 3 years away from contributing significantly.

On SM-N960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Or he could be one of the few that make the instant impact. There is always that option.

 

[Arr0w]

Yeah I agree on your choices as targets all fill our needs but I just can’t see Williams leaving GWS being an academy graduate and the first one to play for them and being from NSW I hope I’m wrong cause I would love to have him.

The more I think about it and things that I’ve read I am starting to really warm to the idea of Wines, I really think he is ripe for a fresh start and I think we can really bring out the best in him, I reckon Port have played him to heavy for a while now to use him as a pure battering ram and I think Russell could get him slimmed down and moving a lot better, similar to Cripps, add in some sprint work and use his power rather than his weight and he could be revitalised into a very dangerous mid that can drift forward and be dangerous, in summary if we can get him at the right price, which is debatable, he could really add to our midfield in a significant way.

I don't think Williams will leave either, but force the price up and something else could fall out, such as a Caldwell

As for Wines, being contracted may force an unrealistic price tag in regards to picks, although he certainly would help as long as we have more speed around him and Cripps

 

[ITCHY EYEBALLS]

We have to cut the chord sooner or later.
I think end of this season is the time to make that decision
Thank Simmo, Murph and Kruez for their services, but we need to move on.
Time for the younger group to step up and lead our club.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

Hey, do you think Ollie will still leave?

I think so.