List Mgmt. 2020 List Management

[BlueJet]

My thinking is we are hedging our bets either way if we bring Crouch in, and hopefully Kemp comes on as we’d expect. The other issue is how much cap space we are allocating purely to inside midfielders. With the reduction cap space that’s essentially over 2 million on 3 players, and it may not even prove to be an effective strategy.

I think the Richmond example actually works in reverse. They have a pure inside mid in Prestia, Martin who divides his time between the midfield and the forwardline, Cotchin who’s as outside as inside, and they a rotating cast of players who can pinch hit in there: Edwards, Lambert, Pickett etc.

Im thinking along similar lines pairing Crouch with Caldwell. Kemp gets to learn of Cripps and Crouch, Caldwell learns off Murphy and Cripps. We’ve then covered our bases in the short, mid and long term.

I appreciate your viewpoint, I think that we just rate attributes differently.
IMO Cotchin wouldn't be anymore outside than Crouch, both play inside & out quite well.
Blues Tigers Hawks
Cripps Prestia Sewell
Crouch Cotchin Mitchell
Wines Martin Lewis
Dow Edwards Burgoyne

Both the Tigers & Hawks won multiple flags without concern over a slow midfield group, why? They realised that the perceived weakness of those players could be countered by introducing some outside run: I Smith, B Hill, Stack, Lambert etc to provide balance.
I'm pretty comfortable with the level of leg speed there and it would turn a weakness into a strength.
The ability to throw Wines or Cripps forward in order to create a mismatch in the manner the Tigers do with Dusty cannot be understated IMO.

 

[Arr0w]

Uncontracted players go for unders, but even say Pick 11 in this draft is far less than Caldwell’s market value, which can’t be represented once he nominates a club.

I suspect though if he entered into the National Draft a club would take him with a top 5 pick, no question.

Not many kids/players re-enter the ND as they normally have a stronger hand by nominating a club of choice

In Caldwell's case, if he nominated us, there would be other side deals to get a deal done

Jack Martin was an interesting example, OOC, where some clubs would have offered up a late first, yet he wanted us, so eliminated negotiations for the likes of the Suns with other clubs

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Not that keen on Wines anymore,¹ given that he has seemingly given up on Port (from an outsider looking in)

Least Papley seems to keep giving it all to the Swans.

Even If players still want to leave their club, they should still try and give it their all to their current team (in my opinion)

Maybe i am reading too much into it, there is just something amiss with Wines and Port IMHO

 

[La Dispute]

Not many kids/players re-enter the ND as they normally have a stronger hand by nominating a club of choice

In Caldwell's case, if he nominated us, there would be other side deals to get a deal done

Jack Martin was an interesting example, OOC, where some clubs would have offered up a late first, yet he wanted us, so eliminated negotiations for the likes of the Suns with other clubs

I’m using the example to illustrate how far off our approximation of Caldwell’s value may be if we refused to give up a first rounder for him. The Martin situation was unique in that the two clubs had such divergent views on how he was rated, and that ended up tanking the trade.

We aren’t going to have that luxury with Caldwell, assuming he keeps his place in the team and plays well. I think Pick 5 is fair value for him, but I agree that in that instance we should look to trade down first, so we are still giving decent value while also obtaining something ourselves.

Just say we trade Pick 5 to West Coast for Pick 12 and their first next year, we manage to organise a trade for Caldwell as well as obtaining some further trade currency to bring in another other players this year or even use next year. A future pick for Wines, for example, is probably bang on if we want to go down that path.

 

[La Dispute]

I appreciate your viewpoint, I think that we just rate attributes differently.
IMO Cotchin wouldn't be anymore outside than Crouch, both play inside & out quite well.
Blues Tigers Hawks
Cripps Prestia Sewell
Crouch Cotchin Mitchell
Wines Martin Lewis
Dow Edwards Burgoyne

Both the Tigers & Hawks won multiple flags without concern over a slow midfield group, why? They realised that the perceived weakness of those players could be countered by introducing some outside run: I Smith, B Hill, Stack, Lambert etc to provide balance.
I'm pretty comfortable with the level of leg speed there and it would turn a weakness into a strength.
The ability to throw Wines or Cripps forward in order to create a mismatch in the manner the Tigers do with Dusty cannot be understated IMO.

Fair enough, I don’t see either Cripps or Wines anywhere near as dynamic as Martin and won’t have anywhere near the level of influence forward of the ball (it actually frustrates me no end how incompetent Cripps is at taking set shots), but that’s another topic.

 

[BlueJet]

Fair enough, I don’t see either Cripps or Wines anywhere near as dynamic as Martin and won’t have anywhere near the level of influence forward of the ball (it actually frustrates me no end how incompetent Cripps is at taking set shots), but that’s another topic.

That's fair, few players are as dynamic as Dusty or Danger for that matter.
Neither Wines or Cripps have been played forward of centre for extended periods, their sides lack of meaningful alternative around the contest has prevented that, both have offered a viable option forward of centre on the odd occasions they have played forward - heck, even though we were left to rue his finishing, Cripps could (& arguably should) have won us the game at the weekend.
The ability to throw him forward without leaving us short at the stoppage would be incredibly handy, no matter which players we seek to recruit.

 

[ITCHY EYEBALLS]

2 of the 3 should go. I would give murph 1 more b/c we lack polish. The output and leadership of the other 2 are dimiminishing

Interesting, I’d keep Simmo because he’s still the most consistent and durable

 

[ITCHY EYEBALLS]

They wouldn't have cut Daisy if they weren't planning for exactly this

Yep, and he’s the one we probably should’ve kept.

 

[new_blue]

Let's just say we take on one of Wines or Crouch and get Papley.
Next year starts us off with every player good to go (Right. Good luck with that, but let's see how it goes)
Let's retire Simpson, Murphy, Betts and Kreuzer and see what we end up with:

Docherty Jones Plowman
SPS Weitering Williamson

Pittonet Cripps ECurnow
Fisher Crouch/Wines Walsh

Cuningham CCurnow Martin
Papley McKay McGovern

IC: JSilvagni Dow Stocker Philp - I like the 'possibility' of this interchange. Adds speed, strength, smarts, grunt etc.

Other than Jones & ECurnow, we have the foundation of a squad that can spend plenty of time playing together.

We then have young players: De Koning Kemp Setterfield and an older player in Gibbons who we won't let go.
Other young players, even at this early stage are either contracted or will just remain: Ramsay Honey

Everyone else may be on thin ice including Marchbank O'Brien who may be looked at being traded.
What happens thereafter will be interesting and especially so, should lists be trimmed.

I hope the coaching group have enough common sense to move SPS into the midfield by the start of 2021.

Also hoping to see E Curnow outside our Best 22 by early next year...would be a clear sign of improvement.

 

[thylacine60]

it shouldn't be forgotten we already have next year's number one draft pick, c curnow to add to the list....and possibly a second number one draft pick as well..

 

[Own The Future]

it shouldn't be forgotten we already have next year's number one draft pick, c curnow to add to the list....and possibly a second number one draft pick as well..

As in, a priority pick?

 

[thylacine60]

nope, as in finishing last.........

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Caldwell won't cost a 1st rounder

I’ll take that bet. GWS nearly always make teams pay up for players they want to keep and there is no way they’ll won’t to lose Caldwell.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

We need to sort out our own backyard before recruiting players from other clubs.

Guys who are coming out of contract next season and I want to see sign long term contracts before we sign a free agent:

1. Cripps
2. Weitering
3. Docherty
4. McKay
5. SPS
6. Fisher
7. JSOS
8. O'brien

Some pretty big names on that list.

McKay and Weitering are the two I’d be getting done. Wouldn’t be off a huge base and could get huge offers. (If McKay breaks out). I could easily see sides offering Weitering $800k and we know the stupid overs forwards get if they can have a few good games. It is tough with McKay because his value could be between $400k-$750k and it’s bloody hard to judge.
Doc and Curnow are already on big money so shouldn’t be too big of a rise for Cripps and not at all for Doc so not a huge worry.
the bottom three are borderline AFL level ATM so I wouldn’t be too worried.

 

[Doro]

I’ll take that bet. GWS nearly always make teams pay up for players they want to keep and there is no way they’ll won’t to lose Caldwell.

It depends if he holds his spot or not. Just played his 3rd game on the weekend. If he ends up back in the NEAFL for most of the season and wants out, then his value likely drops into the second round.

 

[Accidental genius]

Crows chairman tries to settle ruffled feathers

Adelaide football director Mark Ricciuto is adamant he "wasn’t trying to have a crack" at ex-Crows Mitch McGovern and Jake Lever as player manager Colin Young hit back.

www.theage.com.au

"The reasons Mitch left the Crows was because of the camp and the Adelaide football department and that's it. Again with Charlie, it was not the money. Let's just leave it at that!"

How much lower can that ****nuckle ricuito sink?

 

[HBF]

Crouch as a RFA would be a good get if he's fit and comes across and plays good footy.

Think there will be a fair cleanout at Carlton, plenty out of contract and a new list manager.

I think so as well. Austin and Teague will want to start making the list their own.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

How much lower can that fu**nuckle ricuito sink?

Interesting he didn’t dispute the money though

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

It depends if he holds his spot or not. Just played his 3rd game on the weekend. If he ends up back in the NEAFL for most of the season and wants out, then his value likely drops into the second round.

Unless they have zero injuries I can’t imagine him being dropped. What could work in our favour is that other bottom clubs could be GC, Freo, Sydney and Adelaide who are all interstate so could give us a better bargaining position with the whole PSD joke. Firsts could also be easy to come by with clubs looking to trade out so it wouldn’t bother me giving up a first on the limited times I’ve seen him.

 

[HARKER]

I hope the coaching group have enough common sense to move SPS into the midfield by the start of 2021.
Also hoping to see E Curnow outside our Best 22 by early next year...would be a clear sign of improvement.

My observation leads me to the same conclusion and I think we'll start to see changes sooner than later, regardless of whether we do well or poorly.

It almost....almost, has to happen, as we can't start next year still relying on Murphy & ECurnow in the centre.
The pre-season alone, isn't enough to flip our midfield around to such an extent. Game time this year is vital.

I still see Fisher and Dow being used in the centre and want to (desperately want to) see SPS utilised.
All being well, I'd like to see Cripps, Dow & SPS in the middle come round 1 2021 with Walsh and Williamson on the wings.......and more than anything....can we please get ourselves a legitimate stoppages coach? Please?

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

When Docherty took over the captaincy at the start of 2018 he was setting himself to become a key part of our midfield.. The answer to our midfield issues might be closer than we think.. Give him another half dozen games finding his feet and then i think we throw him in there and see what we have got..

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

I’ll take that bet. GWS nearly always make teams pay up for players they want to keep and there is no way they’ll won’t to lose Caldwell.

100% and how many of the players that GWS were happy to lose have gone onto be any good..

 

[Bluebag13]

When Docherty took over the captaincy at the start of 2018 he was setting himself to become a key part of our midfield.. The answer to our midfield issues might be closer than we think.. Give him another half dozen games finding his feet and then i think we throw him in there and see what we have got..

I wouldnt mind seeing this, though the injury to newman doesnt help these. The club might feel it will shake up the defence too much loosing 2 of its starting 6.

 

[Own The Future]

I think so as well. Austin and Teague will want to start making the list their own.

I agree with the theory that a new coach and list manager will want to tailor the list to their wants/needs rather than keep the list created by a previous crew, but when does the time come where we have some consistency and - to quote Juddy - cohesion with our list? I also agree that there are still gaping holes in some categories of the list, but the 8-10 player turnover every year cannot be great for building team chemistry.
As I look at the list I see a fair few on there who are 3rd or 4th string at best, or who just cannot get their bodies to hold up to the rigours of the AFL level. I know there are list cuts on the horizon, so team chemistry or not there will be forced delistings. But I wonder how many times we can take a hatchet to the list every year and expect a united team to come from it.

 

[FRUMPY]

I agree with the theory that a new coach and list manager will want to tailor the list to their wants/needs rather than keep the list created by a previous crew, but when does the time come where we have some consistency and - to quote Juddy - cohesion with our list? I also agree that there are still gaping holes in some categories of the list, but the 8-10 player turnover every year cannot be great for building team chemistry.
As I look at the list I see a fair few on there who are 3rd or 4th string at best, or who just cannot get their bodies to hold up to the rigours of the AFL level. I know there are list cuts on the horizon, so team chemistry or not there will be forced delistings. But I wonder how many times we can take a hatchet to the list every year and expect a united team to come from it.

Not many clubs make the minimum 3 changes a year? Every year most clubs would make around 8 changes im guessing, which includes trades and retirements. It comes down to the core of the group that doesnt change, can we have a best 22-25 that maybe has one or 2 list changes and other periphery changes.