List Mgmt. 2020 List Management

[HARKER]

When Papley and Sydney come out and tell us there is no deal to be one there will be two collective sighs -
One of disappointment and one of relief.

We don't know yet what our best team may be next year and that's why it makes it somewhat more difficult for the List Management team but these points keep on echoing:

1. Paraphrasing - 'We have 30 players to pick from that make up our best team'.
2. CCurnow, Kemp and Marchbank are basically new recruits for us next year.
3. What Liddle alluded to in regards to our targets, albeit not directly.
4. If only half of our players 18 - 21 become much better players next year, we're way in front.

Put all those factors together, map out what seems may be our best team and it shouldn't be hard to see we need quality over quantity.

 

[SurreyBlue]

And that would mean?

It would look something like this:
Plowman Jones/Macreade Marchbank
Polson Weitering Williamson
And mean:
Strength in depth, longevity, accountability and run & carry.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

But why would you say that?
We have our 'messiahs' already, don't we? Cripps, Weitering, Walsh, CCurnow, McKay etc etc

If you have just about everything you need by way of personnel, doesn't it make more sense to pay the extra to get what improves you the most and by the biggest margin, or by just padding things around the edges and hope it all works out?

This is the way I do things in everyday life. Quality over quantity.

imo, speed is one of our biggest needs.

I'd be throwing the kitchen sink at Williams. Especially since he won't cost us any trading commodities.

Trade period I'd go after Petruccelle, should be able to get him pretty cheap. 21 yr old Vic with acceleration.

I'd go after Papley too, but I don't want to give up 2 first rounders for him either. I'd be demanding their 2020 2nd rounder back our way which tbh I don't think will be too far off our 2021 1st. Kind of bumps our offer of 2020 1st to around pick 8 in value, which I think is fair enough given he's contracted.

Having Martin, Papley and Petruccelle I think would add a good dynamic to our forward line. Betts can move into his coaching role next year.

Let's not forget Dow should be a regular next year too.

Those players will inject a lot of pace across the field.

 

[HARKER]

imo, speed is one of our biggest needs.

I'd be throwing the kitchen sink at Williams. Especially since he won't cost us any trading commodities.

Trade period I'd go after Petruccelle, should be able to get him pretty cheap. 21 yr old Vic with acceleration.

I'd go after Papley too, but I don't want to give up 2 first rounders for him either. I'd be demanding their 2020 2nd rounder back our way which tbh I don't think will be too far off our 2021 1st. Kind of bumps our offer of 2020 1st to around pick 8 in value, which I think is fair enough given he's contracted.

Having Martin, Papley and Petruccelle I think would add a good dynamic to our forward line. Betts can move into his coaching role next year.

Let's not forget Dow should be a regular next year too.

Those players will inject a lot of pace across the field.

I agree with you....although that doesn't necessarily make either of us right, but I think we have a good idea of what we want.

Petruccelle though? I'm missing something here. Other than flat out speed, I just don't see him as having many weapons.
I rate Cuningham higher and once Dow establishes himself (praying to the lord) we could have enough of the right speed and smarts around.
i.e. Fisher, Dow, Cuningham and all being well, Williams.......and then Honey and Philp.

 

[Arr0w]

Totally agree as in yers to come will put significant pressure on us to retain our emerging players. Of those out of contract smalls, who interest you most and why?
I wouldn't mind having a crack at Saad who according to media reports is far from reaching agreement on his contract with Essendon. Wouldn't mind seeing him play up the ground for us as a forward threat.

I think Lonie is great value, quick, massive tank and can sniff a goal. Would love being at the feet of our talls

Hewett the other, can play as a ball winning mid, stopper and forward

 

[Red Bull]

No we don't. We don't have to keep every emerging player. It's just not possible, given the young, midfield depth we have.
Why on earth would we want to top up with cheapies that may only be rotational players?

If our principle targets aren't immediate best 22 players, we have rocks in our head. It's that simple......and if we're just padding out for depth because of expected injuries, then we're doing something very wrong, again.

Is the aim of this club to win premierships or just allow ourselves the ability to say we have more first rounders than every other club?
I know this is not what you're saying but I want us to be viewing next year as a year we're aiming at winning the big one....not in '23 or '25 or.....it's now.

Agree with this view, it’s got to be about using our resources in the best way to complete the team that will compete for the title from next season.
For mine, Papley would be ideal but i can’t come at the likely asking price for him.
I’d rather the big outlay trade wise (1st rounders) to be spent on an elite midfielder.
I reckon we can fill our small forward needs by identifying who on our list we can afford to move on.
Who do you see as expendable for us keeping in mind that they can’t all play seniors ?

 

[HARKER]

If we don't hit our main targets, would anyone here be happy to exchange let's say our pick #8 for let's say a 2nd this year and a '21 1st from a club?

I know we're all talking compromised drafts and this and that, but maybe someone like a Gold Coast, North, Sydney etc would want to be as active as possible at the draft this year, given where they are or may be in their rebuild.

I think that would make for a great outcome should it be possible. Why?
It gives us the ability to sort our list out and know exactly what we have by the time the trade period comes about next year.
We're really unlikely to gain much next year by having another 18 year old at the club.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

I agree with you....although that doesn't necessarily make either of us right, but I think we have a good idea of what we want.

Petruccelle though? I'm missing something here. Other than flat out speed, I just don't see him as having many weapons.
I rate Cuningham higher and once Dow establishes himself (praying to the lord) we could have enough of the right speed and smarts around.
i.e. Fisher, Dow, Cuningham and all being well, Williams.......and then Honey and Philp.

Yeah I think Petruccelle is capable of a bit more then what he's shown so far. Back to Victoria, might be a better environment for him

 

[DirkDiggler]

No we don't. We don't have to keep every emerging player. It's just not possible, given the young, midfield depth we have.
Why on earth would we want to top up with cheapies that may only be rotational players?

If our principle targets aren't immediate best 22 players, we have rocks in our head. It's that simple......and if we're just padding out for depth because of expected injuries, then we're doing something very wrong, again.

Is the aim of this club to win premierships or just allow ourselves the ability to say we have more first rounders than every other club?
I know this is not what you're saying but I want us to be viewing next year as a year we're aiming at winning the big one....not in '23 or '25 or.....it's now.

Don’t share your optimism.We have to cement ourselves as a regular finalist first. If I shared your optimism I would agree with your short term strategy.
Need to get more games and experience into our emerging talent. Guys like Caldwell should we target him should be peaking by the time we establish ourselves in the top 4 and premiership hopeful. Would like our trade targets to be in the 21 -25 yo age bracket and free agents without question marks on their bodies or those chasing their super pay out.

 

[AB_Blue]

Yeah I think Petruccelle is capable of a bit more then what he's shown so far. Back to Victoria, might be a better environment for him

He’s quick that’s something we lack
Should be able available for a mid-late second or early 3rd


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[DangerousD]

8 or so years?

DD

Am happy to put a trillion $ on that not happening

Arrow after 7 seasons he will be 32, its not old, im not much of a betting man but to be willing to put your yearly wage on him not being able to make 33 seems a bit reckless.

 

[Arr0w]

Arrow after 7 seasons he will be 32, its not old, im not much of a betting man but to be willing to put your yearly wage on him not being able to make 33 seems a bit reckless.

DD if Kelly starts a season, as a 33 year old, I will buy you a membership

 

[DangerousD]

The currency being spoken about for Papley and Kelly would be better spent on the likes of a Petracca, who is a genuine match winner/game changer

Is he likely to be available? Papley has in indicated his intention to leave and most AFL watches are aware the Giants have cap issues, neither are a big reach.
There are a lot of players im offering big deals to, if they became available, i don't see Petracca as on the market though.

 

[Eiffel 65]

Since when do we judge players on one game?

Papley was not at his best today, in fact has been relatively quiet for the past few weeks, but he's still having an excellent season as he did in 2019.

The comparison with Fisher is a silly one as they're not competing for a spot, but happy to revisit at the end of next year.

He's been relatively quiet since his round 8 match against Hawthorn.

He's not having an excellent season. He's having a good season. His form has dropped away too much and for too long to be having an excellent season.

Fisher and Papley will be competing for the same spot. Fisher is in the side as a pressure forward. Papley would be recruited as a pressure forward. Only need one.

 

[Arr0w]

Is he likely to be available? Papley has in indicated his intention to leave and most AFL watches are aware the Giants have cap issues, neither are a big reach.
There are a lot of players im offering big deals to, if they became available, i don't see Petracca as on the market though.

Shiel wasn't available early in the year he left, neither was Neale

Cost you nothing to shake a tree

 

[Eiffel 65]

If we don't hit our main targets, would anyone here be happy to exchange let's say our pick #8 for let's say a 2nd this year and a '21 1st from a club?

I know we're all talking compromised drafts and this and that, but maybe someone like a Gold Coast, North, Sydney etc would want to be as active as possible at the draft this year, given where they are or may be in their rebuild.

I think that would make for a great outcome should it be possible. Why?
It gives us the ability to sort our list out and know exactly what we have by the time the trade period comes about next year.
We're really unlikely to gain much next year by having another 18 year old at the club.

I would strongly consider it but the decision would be influenced by two factors:

1. Which club we are trading with. I wouldn't do the trade with a Richmond or West Coast because their first rounder in 2021 will most likely to be a back end one.
2. Whether we believe the player we want will be available at our selection.

I certainly agree that we need another 12 months to see how the list develops. There are too many unknowns as to what our greatest needs are. A bit of extra time to assess our list will go a long way to avoiding misguided trades. Trading into next years draft will also give us additional equity to hit the trade table.

However, if we are left with draft picks, bringing one or two high end draftees now will allow us to get 12 months development into them before the next trade period comes around. They could well be ready to make an impact by 2022.

Will be an interesting trade period.

 

[HARKER]

I would strongly consider it but the decision would be influenced by two factors:

1. Which club we are trading with. I wouldn't do the trade with a Richmond or West Coast because their first rounder in 2021 will most likely to be a back end one.
2. Whether we believe the player we want will be available at our selection.

I certainly agree that we need another 12 months to see how the list develops. There are too many unknowns as to what our greatest needs are. A bit of extra time to assess our list will go a long way to avoiding misguided trades. Trading into next years draft will also give us additional equity to hit the trade table.

However, if we are left with draft picks, bringing one or two high end draftees now will allow us to get 12 months development into them before the next trade period comes around. They could well be ready to make an impact by 2022.

Will be an interesting trade period.

It was always interesting.....or at least it was when SOS was in charge. Austin - We'll just have to see.
If it was a Gold Coast that clearly wants to add more young talent and still holds an additional 2nd rounder for next year. Why not?

Every club has unknowns but I feel we have more than most (if not all) considering our high picks that aren't currently playing.

CCurnow - Will he be the player we want him to be, or is that knee going to be an issue.
Marchbank - Can we finally get the injuries behind him, or is it going to be an ongoing pattern?
Kemp - We really rated him. I was told SOS had him @ #3 but we haven't seen him, nor really know what we're going to do with him.
Dow - Hasn't had a real run at it this year.
Stocker - What have we got here? Potential alone doesn't count. Every player has potential.
O'Brien - Are we going to need him?
SPS - Have we put him in a home he doesn't like?
TDK - Is he ready to take over first ruck or do we need extra back-up beyond just Pittonet, should things go belly-up for Kreuzer.

That alone makes for a lot of premium talent we really can't be certain of just yet for a variety of factors....and I haven't even included Philp, Honey, Cuningham, Cottrell.

I don't see us needing a shiny new toy this year. I think we have enough coming through already.
We may just be best served to sit it out a year and see how things pan out before we use resources we may regret later.

 

[Curnivore]

When we get to the stage where we can push Docherty up to the wing to become the 7th defender, then we know we have completed the back 6.

Saw Newman play a few games on the wing at Sydney and really liked him there.

 

[Ald Gardiner]

He’s quick that’s something we lack
Should be able available for a mid-late second or early 3rd


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I thought he was really impressive when they beat us at Marvel last year. Good overhead mark iirc, but many in WC team are

 

[Jeremias]

He's been relatively quiet since his round 8 match against Hawthorn.

He's not having an excellent season. He's having a good season. His form has dropped away too much and for too long to be having an excellent season.

Fisher and Papley will be competing for the same spot. Fisher is in the side as a pressure forward. Papley would be recruited as a pressure forward. Only need one.

So let me get this straight, if we bring in Papley you think only he or Fisher will be in the senior side come round 1?

Very happy to revisit this if we land him as many expect.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

What we have to remember when we talk about giving up two good picks for someone like Papley rather then trying to get two good best 22 players is that, you have to actually identify and get those two good players, secondly who is going to miss a game for two of them compared to the one with say a Papley. If it means that borderline guys like LOB, Stocker, Cuningham, Kemp, Newnes etc miss a game then we are gaining two good players in our best 22 or one gun (Papley) and a handy player eg Cuningham.

two Good vs a Gun and a handy player. It’s not always two vs 1 because you still only play with 22. Only if depth is poor do we take the two imo. don’t just compare say a Papley or whoever to the other two options compare Papley and one of Cuningham, Kemp, Philp, Dow, LOB etc to the two.

 

[smashbox gill]

TDK gone straight past Pitto imo

 

[Percy2257]

I think we should face up to the fact that Dow is struggling to make it With us. Why not use his trade value now? Also Why did SOS take him ahead of Cerra? Cerra has excelled at Freo.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Paddy Dow is not up to it sorry.

Soft as butter.

 

[Eiffel 65]

So let me get this straight, if we bring in Papley you think only he or Fisher will be in the senior side come round 1?

Very happy to revisit this if we land him as many expect.

One of Fisher or Gibbons would have to be omitted and both are playing very good football at the moment.

Can't see the balance in playing 3 tall forwards and 3 small forwards, with Zac Fisher being the tallest of the lot.

Mind you, I don't think that the Pittonet and De Koning combination rotating as ruck forwards gives us balance either. Time for TDK to be the primary ruck and Pittonet play in the 2's. I haven't seen Pittonet do enough around the ground or pose enough of a threat up forward to justify that decision but the club sticks with it.

Just looking at today's game against Collingwood, I didn't see our small forwards as the issue. They were great.

Our biggest problem was being beaten in the midfield with Collingwood missing Treloar and Sidebottom. Also, we clearly didn't have the ability to handle their speedy forwards in Stephenson and Thomas.

I can't justify spending our currency on a small forward when we clearly have other more pressing needs.

Spending our currency on Papley would be as irrational and unjustified as when we chased McGovern.