List Mgmt. 2020 List Management

[Stamos]

Very possible but as the earlier poster said $800-900k for a HB is crazy expensive. He has never been an AA and I don’t think he has even made the squad. Unless we think we can get more out of him playing him somewhere else it would be a fairly risky move for a very good but not elite player.

I’d still pay up for him because of the traits he has we lack but it’s not as an easy call as some would think imo.

I'd much rather pay that for a half-back to play half-back than I would for a half-back to play mid.
If we want him as a mid, find somebody else. Or at least pay him significantly less.

 

[HARKER]

Zac Williams and Papley 'impact' themselves on the contest.
Any player that doesn't.....I'm not particularly interested in and nor should the CFC be.....which they won't be.

Again -
Happy to see this years first walk.
Happy to see this years second walk.
Happy to see next years second walk.
Just don't let go of the '21 1st unless something else amazing fronts up.....which it won't.

 

[fnm_just a man]

I'd much rather pay that for a half-back to play half-back than I would for a half-back to play mid.
If we want him as a mid, find somebody else. Or at least pay him significantly less.

Reality is we have holes in midfield and defence. It doesn’t really matter where we intend to use him. If a player of his quality is available as a RFA, you do what you can to get him. I can’t even decide where I’d prefer to see him play because he adds a quality to both positions that we don’t have. If our intention is midfield (and in the unlikely event he fails there) we switch him to half-back and he becomes our best half-back flanker/back-pocket and our best distributor/play maker. Shouldn’t be thinking twice about going for him.

 

[BlueJet]

Is this level of play not what everyone expected going into the year? Good improvement, able to hang with the top teams, but fall short to consistently beating them.

But since we've had a few impressive weeks and some people mentioned the "F" word, now everyone's shocked and appalled at our performances and we should trade half the list.

Calm down everyone. Let's take a deep breath.

Am I saying that the past few weeks are fine and acceptable? Absolutely not!

Am I saying that based on the past few weeks we should trade half of our list cos they've been down on form? Hell no!

Are Dow and SPS's development and overall form concerning? Yes, oh god yes.

Should we sell them both for a packet of CC's and a packet of gum when they're 20 and 22 years old respectively? No, oh god no.

Another year of development into our young guns, another good trade period bringing in 1 to 2 stars and a few good role players (Newnes and Pitto were never on our radar and they've been two important players for us this year), a few handy "additions" in Curnow, Kemp, Marchbank and Newman, and we can contend for finals next year, which if I remember correctly was what everyone thought would happen at the start of the year anyway.

Keep the faith.

Great post.

Personally, I never expected to play finals and largely expected our season to play out in the manner that it has - some great footy with some crap thrown in for good measure.
It's to be expected when relying on fading veterans & relatively green newcomers.

I'm less concerned by Dow & SPS than some others, Dow has played a couple of games and hasn't gotten into the swing of things but he's certainly not alone there & while SPS' lack of intensity can be a little disappointing, it isn't the be all & end all - with time, the flaws can be adjusted/corrected if they have the inclination to do so, the ball is in their court as there is no doubt in my mind that they have the natural ability to be long term contributors.

Our list is in a funny place atm, there's a number of holes that still require addressing but there's a lot to like as well, it'll be interesting to watch over the next year or two whether some of our younger players can step up their game to make the grade and who our LM team target to bolster the squad.

I will close with that while I can empathise with those that are disappointed to not be taking part in the finals, this season has provided reason to believe that we're on the right path and while we may not be as far along that path as some may like, it's been the first time in a long time that opposition clubs & fans haven't looked at a fixture against our boys as a definite win - which as a fan is a great thing.

Go Baggers!

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I'd much rather pay that for a half-back to play half-back than I would for a half-back to play mid.
If we want him as a mid, find somebody else. Or at least pay him significantly less.

I think that’s possibly the worry. We are going to go get the most highly paid HB in the game and still leave the exact same hole in the midfield which can pretty much only be filled with another highly paid player.
I’m happy for us to do it but it is a risk.

 

[Stamos]

I think that’s possibly the worry. We are going to go get the most highly paid HB in the game and still leave the exact same hole in the midfield which can pretty much only be filled with another highly paid player.
I’m happy for us to do it but it is a risk.

I wouldn't worry too much about "most highly paid HB in the game", that's the cost of FA rather than having to pay in draft picks.

The midfield is a bit of a worry at the moment, but hopefully there is development in our draftees over the next pre-season. If say we move Walsh back into the guts, and have LOB and Cottrell's running on the wings?
It needs some tweaking, and maybe I'm naively optimistic, but if some of those kids don't stand up then we're in more trouble than a high-priced mid can fix.

 

[Jimmae]

Thanks for expanding, appreciate the response.

Enjoyed the footage, had no idea he had that burst of speed.

Straight after that was a video showing all his possessions against WB last year. Looked every bit like the player he projected in that pre draft video - was amazing in that game.

He did show flashes of his pace in that game, but then it disappeared again as well, and it's rarely sighted at all. Reminds me of Bower's loss of explosiveness, though he had much more time off with injury while in the AFL system.

 

[LemmingMaster]

That will make us so much better than for any individual/s we may attain by way of trade.

#5 SPS - Looked likely to become a serious player, but gone backwards quickly.
#3 Dow - At this stage looks a shell of the player he was, even in his first year.
#10 O'Brien - Out of sight, out of mind.
#19 Stocker - At this stage....who knows?
#17 Kemp - It's easy to make out he'll be an answer to something, but way too early.
#20 Philp - We don't know.

Six first rounders in need of proper development.
We have the infrastructure in place and sure...covid hasn't helped....but we have to get this right and quickly.

They have all under performed from their draft rankings, we really need a few of those selections to lift.
Otherwise we will have another void of draft talent in a certain age bracket.

 

[HARKER]

I wouldn't worry too much about "most highly paid HB in the game", that's the cost of FA rather than having to pay in draft picks.

The midfield is a bit of a worry at the moment, but hopefully there is development in our draftees over the next pre-season. If say we move Walsh back into the guts, and have LOB and Cottrell's running on the wings?
It needs some tweaking, and maybe I'm naively optimistic, but if some of those kids don't stand up then we're in more trouble than a high-priced mid can fix.

The midfield hasn't been functioning too well, but somehow I'm not too worried about it just yet. Reasons -

1. Our midfield driver in Cripps, is not right this year. We know how much of a difference he makes.
2. Setterfield is just starting to find his feet and from what I'm seeing will only get better.
3. ECurnow still has a year or two to go.
4. Walsh into the centre is a no-brainer when we choose to involve him more.
5. We then have Dow, Stocker, Kemp, SPS and Fisher. We have to find the best mix over the course of the pre-season.
(One can include Philp, Kennedy, Cuningham etc but I'm just concentrating on genuine starting mids)

Sure, a quality ready-to-go mid would be nice....I get it....but somehow I'm just not too worried about it yet, even for what has been on display.
1. Run and grunt from the backline.
2. Another creative impactful forward player.

Give me that as a start point via this years trading and let's sort things out once and for all in '21.

 

[Jimmae]

They have all under performed from their draft rankings, we really need a few of those selections to lift.
Otherwise we will have another void of draft talent in a certain age bracket.

Why the **** do we have all this senior midfield depth, if not to leave these players in the reserves with a mandated training program focused around their athletic or skill weaknesses?

We don't see enough consistent development from those with obvious and addressable weaknesses. O'Brien, Stocker, SPS and Dow should be making solid weekly contributions to the senior team by now.

Philp and Cottrell look like they don't even know how their limbs work 90% of the time, and yet they're getting picked to execute on the outside for us over these guys. It's a joke, and only someone looking at metrics on spreadsheet would be satisfied with what's happening at the selection table and with our player development.

Sabremetrics when used in AFL doesn't measure how a player responds to higher-intensity play without it being very acutely measured, which probably isn't going to happen beyond GPS stats and contact stats. So most of the time, you're just not going to know this stuff about players until after the fact unless you look at the player with your own eyes and see how they physically respond under pressure with regard to decision making and skill execution.

We seem to be focusing too much on over-simplified data in our off-season decision making, and not the tape.

 

[HARKER]

Witherden? I didn't quite trust him before and don't do so now.....as seems to be the case with Brisbane also.
He's just not what we need. It sort of sounds OK, but give me a fit Marchbank any day......and a player we don't have to shell currency out for - Williams.

Docherty Jones Marchbank
Williams Weitering Williamson.....yeah....I'll go with that + Newman + Stocker + Plowman....

EDIT: maybe, maybe if Williams doesn't happen.....but even so.....no thanks.

 

[pgm87]

Agree I'd rather go after saad

That is absolute insanity. Saad is a mediocre player in a mediocre team. I’d argue Williams is top 3-5 most important players at GWS in what has been a team which has challenged.


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[pgm87]

Yep dedoro is A flog

All I can say is thank Christ for that if you’re considering Saad...


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[pgm87]

That is absolute insanity. Saad is a mediocre player in a mediocre team. I’d argue Williams is top 3-5 most important players at GWS in what has been a team which has challenged.


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For what it’s worth, the only reason I can’t see Saad being re-signed is if they can upgrade him to Williams.


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[DirkDiggler]

That is absolute insanity. Saad is a mediocre player in a mediocre team. I’d argue Williams is top 3-5 most important players at GWS in what has been a team which has challenged.


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I would argue I’d have both of them. Saad would definitely make us a better team. Only a parochial Carlton supporter would think otherwise. Our lack of run and carry is killing us when trying to mount attack from our defence. We are so predictable and teams have worked us out. It’s tiring watching us move the the ball contest after contest from the backline. We are spent by the start of the final term.

 

[CJMB]

I hate when people bring up footage from junior days, despise it. They're playing against people their own age!
Means absolutely nothing when you come up against bigger, stronger bodies.

I don't get what the issues is, it's just to illustrate the difference in the way he moves, not how he competed against men (in which case I'd tend to agree with you in some cases, particularly 'man-child' types who were good predominantly because they were bigger than everyone else).

 

[Arr0w]

Cunners!!


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Coach needs to play him around the pill, but a couple more and we are on our way

 

[HBF]

Is Gov out of contact at the end of the year?

 

[TheLeftFooters]

Is Gov out of contact at the end of the year?

Yep!

 

[HBF]

Yep!

I wonder if we might look to trade him with Charlie & Jack coming back.

 

[juzz88]

I wonder if we might look to trade him with Charlie & Jack coming back.

What's the bet he goes to WC and becomes a star alongside his brother?

So much potential.

 

[DirkDiggler]

I wonder if we might look to trade him with Charlie & Jack coming back.

Or rewrite his new contract and pay him per disposal

 

[CJMB]

Is Gov out of contact at the end of the year?

I'm not sure footywire has that one right

 

[Sharks On A Plane]

I thought McGovern signed a 5-year deal?

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

I thought McGovern signed a 5-year deal?

Footywire and Zerohangar has it ending this season.