List Mgmt. 2020 Trade and List Management Thread II

[Snake_Baker]

Correct.

Some of us have an inkling, though.

Okay, so it's blind faith based upon little in the way of any rationality.

I can respect this.

I don't agree that it's a worthy premise, but I can respect it for its honesty.

 

[Souup]

If you're going to knife some soldiers then there needs to be a legitimate reason, and you can't table anything other than a hunch based upon your personal frustrations to support your position.

Psicosis posts 80% drivel, and you're not going far if he's your only choice as a bedfellow.

I've tabled reasons and you chose to ignore them in a post earlier this morning. Ladder positions and finals performances over a 10 year period have left us footy purgatory. No one gives a shit about us because we're boring and mediocre (nor should they). No A-graders want to sign with us despite throwing money their way because there's nothing attractive about playing for North Melbourne.

None of this is a hunch. Ladder position is not an abstract or subjective measure. North supporters complain that we get the rough end of the deal when it comes to coverage - we shouldn't complain because we're boring as batshit and irrelevant. Clubs like Melbourne, Western Bulldogs and St Kilda are all in similar positions to us regarding smaller fan bases yet they have received more/better coverage over the last few years because they've earnt it with exciting younger players or flat out success like a premiership. Again, concretely, Gaff, Dustin Martin and Josh Kelly all turned down huge offers from us.

These are not 'hunches based upon personal frustrations'

 

[Psicosis]

If you're going to knife some soldiers then there needs to be a legitimate reason, and you can't table anything other than a hunch based upon your personal frustrations to support your position.

Psicosis posts 80% drivel, and you're not going far if he's your only choice as a bedfellow.

Jacobs - 90 games in 10 years
Durdin - 22 games in 6 years
Ahern - 24 games in 6 years
Wood - 65 games in 8 years
Daw - 54 games in 7 years
Murphy - 9 games in 2 years
Hosie - 5 games in 1.5 years
Crocker - 0 games in 2 years

Williams, Macmillan, Pittard - All could not hold a spot in a 17th placed basket case. All three have significant shortcomings, look no further then their disposal which as a half back is a critical part of the modern game. Evidenced by the fact that it is unlikely that any of them will get picked up by another club.

Edit - Poster ignores factual post.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

Okay, so it's blind faith based upon little in the way of any rationality.

I can respect this.

I don't agree that it's a worthy premise, but I can respect it for its honesty.

Mate, read any of your posts since you've been back. It's pure emotion driving irrationality.

Your view is that we've cut too hard. My view is that we haven't.

Your view leads you to be upset about the players that have been cut, and you have reacted emotionally. My view is that I feel for them but I can see that cutting them is the correct decision, albeit hard in a small number of cases.

I don't have blind faith, but I have faith. This is because I am comfortable with the 11 delistings. You still haven't answered as to which one of them has triggered you, nor have you made a case for any of them to still be on the list.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

There is a clear cut case for why none of them should be retained. They're the least performing players on a team that won 1 game in 15 and has missed the finals the last 4 years.

No emotion based drivel can refute that.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Mate, read any of your posts since you've been back. It's pure emotion driving irrationality.

How is "I can't see what this was designed to achieve or where this is going, therefore I have doubts of its worthiness" LESS rational than "I support change for its own sake"?

FFS, come on man, you are better than this.

 

[Event Horizon]

Why the confusion and unhappiness?

The messaging is clear from the club.

We are going through a rebuild on and off the field after years of poor standards, poor results and poor culture.

You say you support the turnover that is happening so I'm not sure what you are confused about.

Brown - we have done to death on here re contract negotiations, his performance and opportunities to trade. It is not appropriate for the club to comment further on this as negotiations are underway/being finalised. Do successful clubs give running commentary on players they are seeking to move on?

On the older players like Higgo - again the club has been clear - we won't shop them if contracted but if they want to go and something can be organised re comp for us then that can happen. Higgo looks like the one who may want to move.

We have to move the 5 vets on over the next 3 years and we don't want them all going in one year - Higgo - 2020; JZ - 2021; Cunners/Taz - 2022; Goldie - 2023 - allows us to keep some experience around through the rebuild. Again - this is very good list management planning - something we haven't done for 20 years.

On the player agents - meh - they will return to crawl up Brady's backside as soon as they see us turning the corner. They are the last cohort you should be worrying about.

The club is doing a great - and very long overdue - job re this restructuring.

The direction and messaging from the club is clear and consistent - supporters need to stop whining and start getting behind the club.

I reckon Cunners and Taz may have few more years in the tank than two.


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[shimaburnsgrieg]

I don't think what we're doing could be any clearer. FFS, the bloke in charge has actually stated it in an interview with Mark Robinson.

f’ed if I know if it works, there's no guarantees in life. I can tell you what hasn't worked.....what we've done since late 2016.

Sent from my SM-A908B using Tapatalk

Agree - Mods - I think we should put that Brady H/S interview as a 'sticky' so that everyone can refer to it when they get concerned about the 'messaging' or the 'stated direction' of the club.

We can also include the emails from the Chairman which include the very clear need for a change of direction from the previous 10 years, the need to hit the draft hard with high end picks and the 'no excuses' approach to the pursuit of Flag number 5.

 

[Nutjob]

Snake,
Let me ask
A bit of a sliding doors moment
In hindsight , would you have preferred we had offered Gubby Allan a Full time position a couple of years ago, rather than a short term consultancy?
The guy seems to get deals done ( both with us and especially St Kilda )
I’d say 3 years ago the North and Saints lists were not miles apart, now they’re playing finals, and could go deep with a bit of luck. We are....where we are.
For the record, I’m in the Brady camp ( not sure why, maybe blind faith, maybe I think he’s about to produce some aces come trade/ draft time), but nothing is certain.
But a small part of me, can’t help thinking, where we’d be today, if we kept Allan on.
Interested to here your thoughts


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

3 years ago St kilda were at the backend of investing several years in the top end of the draft. Investing in players like Coffield, Clark, Gresham, Billings, King, Battle, etc.

We were doing the complete opposite during that time, trying to stay afloat. It was blatantly obvious at the end 2016, we needed to bring in top talent over several years. We chose to renovate instead of rebuild and it was the wrong decision.

Set the foundations with a young crop of talented youth and the players will come.




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[Carey4life]

Lol.

This will do me. I might take another 10 years off from the forum.

I can't spend my Sunday afternoons having circular arguments regarding the factual evidence that a rebuild will yield results.

 

[Event Horizon]

My biggest criticism after the 2016 cuts was re Boomer only, and the fact we haven’t had any strategy how to replace the players, as having just 2-3 decent draft picks isn’t enough. We had to have some free agents or trades lineup up. Turned out we didn’t.

This time round the names aren’t as big (except Brown and possibly Higgins) but the sheer number of players gone means that replacing them with draft picks simply isn’t realistic. I’m waiting to see what the strategy is once again


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[Asifhe Givashe]

I have no doubt that I have my head well and truly up my ass.
Wtf would I know? I've never spent a day in the inner sanctum of the club in my life. That's why I make it a policy never to make out like I know stuff when I really don't. Or to make sh#t up just so anonymous people on the interweb might think I know more than I do.

Which is precisely my attitude.

This is the medium for posting tid bits, a poster who was being a knob managed to say something which I had heard too from someone who has been correct in the past (reliable source/good guesser). It would be un-NMFC Bigfooty to not share the info which allows others to make an informed decision in order to further debate/put to bed. This is precisely what a forum is, otherwise it would be a monologue.

People as always are free to make up their own minds.

I personally couldn’t care less, I’m over the whole thing and focused on getting the best result for The Mighty NMFC.
I haven’t been proud of my Clubs position on many things this last decade but I’m loving this recent paradigm shift; get this years and next years draft 85-90% right and we’ll be in a very strong position in 2022.

 

[Deleted member 98541]

This club needs a dip down the ladder and some elite kids coming in through the draft.

I won't complain for a second if we end up with a Horne in 12 months time.

How blatantly ****ing obvious is it that this was their LAST RESORT approach for bringing in talent.

The war chest failed. It failed miserably.

Dip down, rebuild, then maybe we can top up with some FA icing on the way back up.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

How is "I can't see what this was designed to achieve or where this is going, therefore I have doubts of its worthiness" LESS rational than "I support change for its own sake"?

FFS, come on man, you are better than this.

Um, you've just used quotation marks for "I support change for its own sake".

Point me to the post where this was stated.

If you have to make things up, you're losing the argument comprehensively.

 

[Phillyroo]

This is just cringeworthy.

Why not just do the intellectually honest thing and admit that you're frustrated, don't really know how to fix anything, and your position is based upon blind faith and hope?

I know I'd respect your credibility a hell of a lot more.

There's not a single poster who has tabled any rational basis to support what is going on. Not one.

Sure, they can all point and complain, and utilise whipping boys to exorcise their frustrations, but not a single one fo them has so far managed to reasonably express why this is the best option based upon x, x and x. Of course, the intellectually deceitful can all come back down the track and make disingenuous claims that they were "right", or alternatively they will just go missing or show up with a new user account.

All I can see is frustration resulting in blind faith & hope supported by zero logic. I hope that someone can eventually come along and make an attempt at adequately reasoning this position.

Mate you see what you want to see.

The plan/logic is simple.
The club is doing the right thing, and your “outrage” seems out of place and is missing the mark.
The club will be better for this.

 

[La Flama Blanca]

There's nothing wrong with supporters backing the club in on issues, but voices of dissent are also important in terms of driving standards and accountability.

 

[benbanjo]

Um, you've just used quotation marks for "I support change for its own sake".

Point me to the post where this was stated.

If you have to make things up, you're losing the argument comprehensively.

This coming from you? How cute!

 

[Samsquanch]

He is probably not gettable but Waterman is a fringe player at the Eagles who would fit easily into our forward line if BBB goes

Only reason I noticed him on the ground last night was due to his shit haircut. And clearly, North has no lubb of shit haircuts in the new plans.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

This coming from you? How cute!

Oh look, the offended sniper is still at it.

 

[Samsquanch]

There's nothing wrong with supporters backing the club in on issues, but voices of dissent are also important in terms of driving standards and accountability.

Imagine the flaming you'd cop if you posted this in the Polec thread!

 

[Friday Night Lights]

Agree with this to an extent but how many players have made the AFL due to their speed but been exposed due to their inability to actually get the ball or dispose of it correctly? I think ball magnets like Tom Mitchell and Jack Macrae have shown winning the ball outside of the contest is significantly more about having a good footy IQ and knowing where to be rather than foot speed.

Gary Rohan, Jarrod Pickett, Jarrod Garlett, Sam Blease, Kieran Harper are some names of first round draft picks that come to mind who, for the most part, failed due to their inability to win the ball or make good decisions. Rohan the best of them but he's not lived up to his draft position.

You obviously need to build a balanced side and can't totally neglect foot speed but I'm not sure there's a trait in AFL football more overrated than foot speed.

Yep agree mate. Mine was just a general thought tbh.

Footspeed as a weapon in today’s game is mostly about creating pressure or perceived pressure I reckon.

Highly skilled/smart players with ball in hand trump a guy with pace who tucks it under the arm and runs but can’t deliver or makes poor decisions.

 

[pupstar]

I've tabled reasons and you chose to ignore them in a post earlier this morning. Ladder positions and finals performances over a 10 year period have left us footy purgatory. No one gives a sh*t about us because we're boring and mediocre (nor should they). No A-graders want to sign with us despite throwing money their way because there's nothing attractive about playing for North Melbourne.

None of this is a hunch. Ladder position is not an abstract or subjective measure. North supporters complain that we get the rough end of the deal when it comes to coverage - we shouldn't complain because we're boring as batshit and irrelevant. Clubs like Melbourne, Western Bulldogs and St Kilda are all in similar positions to us regarding smaller fan bases yet they have received more/better coverage over the last few years because they've earnt it with exciting younger players or flat out success like a premiership. Again, concretely, Gaff, Dustin Martin and Josh Kelly all turned down huge offers from us.

These are not 'hunches based upon personal frustrations'

I am not totally convinced there is nothing attractive about playing for us. Like most people know once your in our system i think it becomes more attractive hence why we dont generally loose to many players. So if it is not a attractive place to be are we in danger of loosing the likes of LDU Simkin Thomas. I think from the out side looking in it may seem to be not attractive to some players that is what we have to fix. Once you are in our system i think it is quite an attractive place to be playing. How we do that i am not sure would love to have some ideas thrown about.

 

[Heaps of fun]

I hope you're on the money buddy, because I haven't seen anything to support going all in with this, and I am yet to see any convincing arguments from the posters supporting this that isn't some straight up "change for its own sake" mentality, or draftcentric zealotry.

I do know this much though, a very long list of people have forfeited the right to complain about anything for at least the next two years, and I will be pulling them up the moment they start whining next year.

You seem to have got the jump on them for the whining.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

I am not totally convinced there is nothing attractive about playing for us. Like most people know once your in our system i think it becomes more attractive hence why we dont generally loose to many players. So if it is not a attractive place to be are we in danger of loosing the likes of LDU Simkin Thomas. I think from the out side looking in it may seem to be not attractive to some players that is what we have to fix. Once you are in our system i think it is quite an attractive place to be playing. How we do that i am not sure would love to have some ideas thrown about.

We have to start winning more than we lose. That's how you attract players, and it's also how you start to get positive media. We know that the media are either negative or indifferent towards us, but it's on us to change the narrative.

I'm nervous about the seemingly high risk strategy that seems to be taking place, but at the same time, it's way preferable to the under-achieving comfort zone of recent years.

 

[Samsquanch]

Mate, the season "we just had" was contrived by the ******* football department!!!!

They wrecked the careers of some blokes!!!!!

The slash and burn seemed to be justified by the season's outcome, but as you say, that was determined by team selections and game day tactics. But there was no outcry in the media of tanking, and apparently, no AFL investigation either. Unbelievable.

Injury had an affect of course but it seemed that every match had some unusual match up or positioning of players that just didn't fit with their capability and don't tell me that playing Poled on Cripps was being done to see if he could be converted to an inside contested beast!