List Mgmt. 2020 Trade Thread - Part I

[stavro#4]

Is it just me or does he seem like a moron who trouble seems to find?

When I got told. My immediate thought was he could be the ultimate buy low type player.

His value would be nothing like it was 24 months ago.

All he would need to do is play footy. No leadership responsibilities. Could be just what he needs as it looks like things have soured at port for him

 

[SaintsSeptember]

He'd be an upgrade on Dunstan, maybe we could get a straight swap.
I'd see him taking Dunstan's roll anyway.

Dunstan 2019 vs Wines 2018
4 less disposals per game.
Similar goals kicked.
Both around 6 clearances per game.
Dunstan gets more frees and gives away less.
Dunstan gets a 12 contested possessions per game, Wines 13.
Wines more marks and 1% ers.

 

[StCicatriz]

When I got told. My immediate thought was he could be the ultimate buy low type player.

His value would be nothing like it was 24 months ago.

All he would need to do is play footy. No leadership responsibilities. Could be just what he needs as it looks like things have soured at port for him

this is some seriously good news, it's the type of trade we should be going all out for. we need to be competitive ASAP to get the crowd numbers up and the business back to normal.

our inside mid brigade consists of: Dunstan, Steele, Hanners and Ross. Gresham and Clark are running through there but its too early to call if they can make the step up.

Wines is 25. Dunstan is 25. Steele 24. Ross 27. Hanners 29. So we need to replace Hanners at some point soon (next 2-3 years). Wines fits the age demographic of the others perfectly.

We know what we are going to get from these guys and so far its been extremely meh and inconsistent. none of them hit the numbers Wines does for the inside brute work. which after what we've seen with North where we basically got beaten up on the inside and around the ball, it shows how lack luster our contested stuff is. Wines would help address this.

Anyways here are the numbers:

Wines:


Dunstan:


Hanners:


Steele:


Ross:

 

[The_Steadier]

Ollie Wines.

We have interest.

I don't.

May as well just persist with dunstan for half the salary cap price wines would cost us.

Dunstan will be at wines level in a year or less

 

[The_Steadier]

He'd be an upgrade on Dunstan, maybe we could get a straight swap.
I'd see him taking Dunstan's roll anyway.

Dunstan 2019 vs Wines 2018
4 less disposals per game.
Similar goals kicked.
Both around 6 clearances per game.
Dunstan gets more frees and gives away less.
Dunstan gets a 12 contested possessions per game, Wines 13.
Wines more marks and 1% ers.

Very marginal upgrade and not worth it given we'd have to cough up plenty in terms of salary and trade currency.

We need to either:
A. set our sights far higher than marginal upgrades like dunstan to wines or
B. Dont trade

We will be at max salary cap with a team full of overpaid B graders slogging it out for 8th place if we go chasing guys like wines.

Far better off sticking with the B graders we have, and chasing A graders with big coin to play alongside them

 

[gringo2011]

I don't.

May as well just persist with dunstan for half the salary cap price wines would cost us.

Dunstan will be at wines level in a year or less

I'm hoping Bytel and Byrnes could come on as inside mids. Wines is overrated but would still be better than most of ours currently. I think he'd still cost a first round DP.

 

[bird_man]

I don't.

May as well just persist with dunstan for half the salary cap price wines would cost us.

Dunstan will be at wines level in a year or less

There is 3 months age gap between the two. Not sure how much improvement you expect from Dunstan.

Wines was a better footballer 4 years ago than Dunstan is now.

 

[gringo2011]

There is 3 months age gap between the two. Not sure how much improvement you expect from Dunstan.

Wines was a better footballer 4 years ago than Dunstan is now.

Wines looked like he'd be a superstar but has never taken that next step. He burst out of the blocks and now looks like a walking headline factory more than a star. A refresh might make him into what he looked like he'd become but if not he's a bit one dimensional though. He's a grunt pig more than a finesse player.

 

[The_Steadier]

There is 3 months age gap between the two. Not sure how much improvement you expect from Dunstan.

Wines was a better footballer 4 years ago than Dunstan is now.

Wines 4 years ago is as relevant as dunstans form 5 years ago when he looked great in his first year.

Wines and dunstan are very similar- manchilds who were able to stand out against guys their own age.

As soon as their size advantage was equalised against open aged opponents- they are found to be just good, ordinary footsoldiers.

Sam pepper powell is in the same 'manchild being found out' basket.

All of wines, dunstan and SPP are decent players- but we already have a team full of decent, ok players.....
Adding more to the pile by spending trade currency and salary cap overs will get us nowhere.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Here we go!
Out: Dunny, Wilkie and our 1st
In: Wines, 2nd & 3rd

Out: 2nd, 3rd, 2x 4ths
In: Doggies 1st

Coff takes Wilkie's spot and Robbo plays 3rd tall.

 

[bird_man]

Wines 4 years ago is as relevant as dunstans form 5 years ago when he looked great in his first year.

Wines and dunstan are very similar- manchilds who were able to stand out against guys their own age.

As soon as their size advantage was equalised against open aged opponents- they are found to be just good, ordinary footsoldiers.

Sam pepper powell is in the same 'manchild being found out' basket.

All of wines, dunstan and SPP are decent players- but we already have a team full of decent, ok players.....
Adding more to the pile by spending trade currency and salary cap overs will get us nowhere.

I don't tthink it matters when you make the comparison, Dunstan has never reached Wines level and likely never will.

I don't see how 3 months difference in age means that he will catch him when Wines has been playing good footy for years.

 

[BrutThough]

Not a huge fan of Wines. He will cost more than he is worth, both in salary cap and trade capital.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Not a huge fan of Wines. He will cost more than he is worth, both in salary cap and trade capital.

I think you'd be surprised at what he isn't worth.
I believe that Port want to get rid of him, and are red hot on getting Hately off GWS.
Facilitate both those criteria and Port will be happy.

So far as salary goes, we'll have bags of space with the right trades and delistments this off season. Stuv, Gears, Jake, Brownie and some lesser lights should all go off the books.

Wines and Williams please..

 

[BrutThough]

I think you'd be surprised at what he isn't worth.
I believe that Port want to get rid of him, and are red hot on getting Hately off GWS.
Facilitate both those criteria and Port will be happy.

So far as salary goes, we'll have bags of space with the right trades and delistments this off season. Stuv, Gears, Jake, Brownie and some lesser lights should all go off the books.

Wines and Williams please..

We may have space, I just don't think he is worth what we would need to pay him.

I'd rather we went after someone in their 3rd/4th year, who is more balanced as a midfielder without the some injury concerns and who doesn't look like they have already peaked.

 

[hayes]

I agree don’t go after Wines, let’s just keep relying on our young players to turn into gun mids because that’s worked so well for us the past 10 years........not.

 

[ScrappyDo]

We may have space, I just don't think he is worth what we would need to pay him.

I'd rather we went after someone in their 3rd/4th year, who is more balanced as a midfielder without the some injury concerns and who doesn't look like they have already peaked.

If you believe the ITK's we're into Caldwell too, and he'll be cheap enough.
I'd see Ollie taking Dunny's place, then Clark, Bytel and Byrnes each a year apart.
On progression, Hunter should be a ridgy-dig midfielder by the end of the year.
Wines can be elite if he pulls himself together. It's worth the risk IMO.

 

[StCicatriz]

I agree don’t go after Wines, let’s just keep relying on our young players to turn into gun mids because that’s worked so well for us the past 10 years........not.

the huge problem the club have is they need to start playing finals now so they don't completely lose people not going to games. the attendance has been trending backwards massively since the 2010 grand final.

but the problem is the list demographic is also ageing. you have quite a few important pieces at the end of their 20s or above. majority of it in the mids to late 20s. then a bunch of kids, some good prospects but a lot really unknown.

similar to when ross, dunstan, acres, billings, mccartin, goddard and mckenzie came through. we thought they'd be the nucleus of a finals side but they've never really come on. so how do we know blokes like clark, coffield, gresham, battle, king etc. will do it? until they actually do it, we just don't know.

so if we really don't make a dent in finals in the next 3 years, we are in some serious serious serious strife as that's when the big long term rebuild kicks in again.

if we make it and get some good consistent footy out of the younger group i mentioned before, then we are ok and can supplement them with trade.

which almost forces our hand down the trade and free agency path, even without finals!

 

[hayes]

the huge problem the club have is they need to start playing finals now so they don't completely lose people not going to games. the attendance has been trending backwards massively since the 2010 grand final.

but the problem is the list demographic is also ageing. you have quite a few important pieces at the end of their 20s or above. majority of it in the mids to late 20s. then a bunch of kids, some good prospects but a lot really unknown.

similar to when ross, dunstan, acres, billings, mccartin, goddard and mckenzie came through. we thought they'd be the nucleus of a finals side but they've never really come on. so how do we know blokes like clark, coffield, gresham, battle, king etc. will do it? until they actually do it, we just don't know.

so if we really don't make a dent in finals in the next 3 years, we are in some serious serious serious strife as that's when the big long term rebuild kicks in again.

if we make it and get some good consistent footy out of the younger group i mentioned before, then we are ok and can supplement them with trade.

which almost forces our hand down the trade and free agency path, even without finals!

Yeah I’m over crossing our fingers hoping that our young guys will step up. Get some proven players in the area we need it most. That way if the young players do come on it’s a bonus rather than relying on it because if they don’t come on then we’re stuffed.

 

[Gosaints12]

Here we go!
Out: Dunny, Wilkie and our 1st
In: Wines, 2nd & 3rd

Out: 2nd, 3rd, 2x 4ths
In: Doggies 1st

Coff takes Wilkie's spot and Robbo plays 3rd tall.

Hold your horses. I’m keeping Wilkie. The rest is brilliant though.

 

[Gosaints12]

If you believe the ITK's we're into Caldwell too, and he'll be cheap enough.
I'd see Ollie taking Dunny's place, then Clark, Bytel and Byrnes each a year apart.
On progression, Hunter should be a ridgy-dig midfielder by the end of the year.
Wines can be elite if he pulls himself together. It's worth the risk IMO.

As much as I like Dustan. If we walked Caldwell and Wines through the Door. Port walked Hately and Dustan and GWS walked two firsts through the door, lookout that’s a huge win.

St Kilda get: Caldwell and Wines

Port get: Dustan and Hately

GWS get: two first rounds, (maybe they’d be interested in future’s as 2021 is a super draft). So St Kilda’s 2021 first and Port’s 2020. ,(Schofield)

 

[bird_man]

Not a huge fan of Wines. He will cost more than he is worth, both in salary cap and trade capital.

He'll go to Carlton if he leaves anyway. I think after last year's injury though people forget how good he is.

We don't have anyone that can average 13+ CP's a game unfortunately.

Is he worth the cost? Maybe not, but he's better at what he does than anyone we have.

I'm happy for us to go to the draft this year. We've built a list that should at least be competitive for the next few years and push for finals. The next step is to build a potential premiership side around King, Clark, Gresham etc

 

[The_Steadier]

I agree don’t go after Wines, let’s just keep relying on our young players to turn into gun mids because that’s worked so well for us the past 10 years........not.

Signing B grade footsoldiers on big coin and at overs trade cost is not a solution to fixing our inability to draft and develop A graders.

 

[hayes]

Signing B grade footsoldiers on big coin and at overs trade cost is not a solution to fixing our inability to draft and develop A graders.

So if we can’t develop them or trade for them then how do we get them. We can’t just accept finishing bottom 6 every year.

 

[BrutThough]

He'll go to Carlton if he leaves anyway. I think after last year's injury though people forget how good he is.

We don't have anyone that can average 13+ CP's a game unfortunately.

Is he worth the cost? Maybe not, but he's better at what he does than anyone we have.

I'm happy for us to go to the draft this year. We've built a list that should at least be competitive for the next few years and push for finals. The next step is to build a potential premiership side around King, Clark, Gresham etc

Essendon should be going hard for him, would suit them perfectly and an easy trade with Fantasia going to Port.

 

[StCicatriz]

Essendon should be going hard for him, would suit them perfectly and an easy trade with Fantasia going to Port.

if essendon get him they might as well just announce the salary cap as dead, like in a big way