List Mgmt. 2021 List Management: Academy, Contracts, Trading & Draft

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captainMyCaptain

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 30, 2011
7,278
5,446
Wollongong
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GWS
Ash looks like our club’s player contract negotiation ‘canary in the coal mine’ for 2021.

We really, really need his speed off halfback for the years ahead.


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If Ash ends up staying it will actually be the first time all our first round draft picks from a draft year have all stayed on beyond the initial rookie deal.
 

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PMBangers

Cupids' Cousin
Nov 7, 2017
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With likely 2 top 10 picks here is a option depending on where his draft rating ends up, if the club sees him as a good fit and if the club can get the pick required for him

I'm pretty happy with our half back runners atm, he'd be great on a wing for us as well but I'm, not sure I'd want to be using a top 3 pick on a winger when we have need for genuine speed in the rover roles that can filled with others around that pick
 

PMBangers

Cupids' Cousin
Nov 7, 2017
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I'm pretty happy with our half back runners atm, he'd be great on a wing for us as well but I'm, not sure I'd want to be using a top 3 pick on a winger when we have need for genuine speed in the rover roles that can filled with others around that pick
Worded this terribly. He's definitely worth a top 3 pick and I'm not complaining if we pick him up, but there's more pressing needs to fill with a top prospect
 

Giant Strides

Moderator
Nov 23, 2015
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So, while a lot of posters are very happy with Adrian Caruso's national draft selections over the past few years, the fact that we're looking to pick up players with speed indicates to me that we've actually recruited the wrong players at times. And the loss of several recent top 20 picks after just a few years is a significant detriment to the squad. Adrian & the team have certainly got some great picks - Binga Daniels & Sam Taylor for two - but Aiden Bonar, Jye Caldwell & Jackson Hately headline the errors IMHO.

2016 ND was OK, I know some are querying Tim Taranto but I'm not as hard on him as those people at this point. Will Setterfield obviously didn't last, but as an academy kid and the way we'd restructured our picks it probably wasn't too much of a fail. Perryman & Cumming were good and OK respectively. Matt de Boer was a great pickup.

2017 ND was great after the first pick; Daniels & Taylor, Langdon was fine as a more mature pick up, and I've no issue with the selection of Nick Shipley from Western Sydney. Bonar at pick #11, though, to me was a massive reach at the time - and it proved to be so. We could have picked up Zac Bailey, Ed Richards, Jack Higgins or Brandon Starcevich a few picks later who would have filled holes at the time with less risk. The risk was not hindsight - it was real at the time.

2018 ND was the big wipeout for me, though. I don't think Jackson Hately ticked any boxes that we needed at the time - another slowish, big-bodied midfielder without a great secondary role (noting we knew we had Tom Green coming through the following year). We should have gone for speed - and with Jordan Clark and Xavier Duursma available there I still don't understand why we picked Hately. Was it the perceived stability factor, with Canberra family? Well, that didn't work, while Clark eschewed options to go back to WA. And with Caldwell, like Bonar, we put our pick on a guy with long-term injury concerns. Of course, we did manage to nurse him through the first two years; unfortunately he wasn't grateful for that. Zak Butters was available at Jye's selection. In the end, if we'd gotten any two of Butters, Clark or Duursma, our list would be in much better shape now.

2019 ND was a good year, although we gave up some 2020 draft capital to get Lachie Ash (thus if he doesn't extend his time at GWS, that's a heavy price down the drain). Ash, Tom Green & Jake Riccardi were all excellent choices. Tom Hutchesson seems a bit of a waste, but as pick #65, not really a mistake.

2020 ND has a 2018 feel to me - though I will always say ''give them time to prove themselves''. Tanner Bruhn (like Bonar & Caldwell) an injury background - we seem to be wanting to get the bargain ''best kid in draft'' from a teens pick by selecting those who've missed substantial chunks of junior time. But again, we seem to have not looked for speed, not filled clearly gaping holes in defence, gone ''mature'' with Wehr only to find he's as far off as any of the kids, not picked up an experienced Saints backman but gone a kid from the bush who will take years to debut ...
 

Giant Strides

Moderator
Nov 23, 2015
5,283
6,862
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Worded this terribly. He's definitely worth a top 3 pick and I'm not complaining if we pick him up, but there's more pressing needs to fill with a top prospect
Interesting comment that you're happy with our half back runners (by which I presume Ash & Cumming, possibly Whitfield if you're slotting him in defence) - when I think many would see defence as a weakness at the moment.

If GWS was to get a top 5 pick (our own) plus a top 10 pick (Pies') who would you be looking at to patch up our list defiencies?
 

captainMyCaptain

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 30, 2011
7,278
5,446
Wollongong
AFL Club
GWS
So, while a lot of posters are very happy with Adrian Caruso's national draft selections over the past few years, the fact that we're looking to pick up players with speed indicates to me that we've actually recruited the wrong players at times. And the loss of several recent top 20 picks after just a few years is a significant detriment to the squad. Adrian & the team have certainly got some great picks - Binga Daniels & Sam Taylor for two - but Aiden Bonar, Jye Caldwell & Jackson Hately headline the errors IMHO.

2016 ND was OK, I know some are querying Tim Taranto but I'm not as hard on him as those people at this point. Will Setterfield obviously didn't last, but as an academy kid and the way we'd restructured our picks it probably wasn't too much of a fail. Perryman & Cumming were good and OK respectively. Matt de Boer was a great pickup.

2017 ND was great after the first pick; Daniels & Taylor, Langdon was fine as a more mature pick up, and I've no issue with the selection of Nick Shipley from Western Sydney. Bonar at pick #11, though, to me was a massive reach at the time - and it proved to be so. We could have picked up Zac Bailey, Ed Richards, Jack Higgins or Brandon Starcevich a few picks later who would have filled holes at the time with less risk. The risk was not hindsight - it was real at the time.

2018 ND was the big wipeout for me, though. I don't think Jackson Hately ticked any boxes that we needed at the time - another slowish, big-bodied midfielder without a great secondary role (noting we knew we had Tom Green coming through the following year). We should have gone for speed - and with Jordan Clark and Xavier Duursma available there I still don't understand why we picked Hately. Was it the perceived stability factor, with Canberra family? Well, that didn't work, while Clark eschewed options to go back to WA. And with Caldwell, like Bonar, we put our pick on a guy with long-term injury concerns. Of course, we did manage to nurse him through the first two years; unfortunately he wasn't grateful for that. Zak Butters was available at Jye's selection. In the end, if we'd gotten any two of Butters, Clark or Duursma, our list would be in much better shape now.

2019 ND was a good year, although we gave up some 2020 draft capital to get Lachie Ash (thus if he doesn't extend his time at GWS, that's a heavy price down the drain). Ash, Tom Green & Jake Riccardi were all excellent choices. Tom Hutchesson seems a bit of a waste, but as pick #65, not really a mistake.

2020 ND has a 2018 feel to me - though I will always say ''give them time to prove themselves''. Tanner Bruhn (like Bonar & Caldwell) an injury background - we seem to be wanting to get the bargain ''best kid in draft'' from a teens pick by selecting those who've missed substantial chunks of junior time. But again, we seem to have not looked for speed, not filled clearly gaping holes in defence, gone ''mature'' with Wehr only to find he's as far off as any of the kids, not picked up an experienced Saints backman but gone a kid from the bush who will take years to debut ...

2018 certainly looks bad with the one saving grace being that we selected a first round talent in Hill in the second round.
Also Caruso is showing a pattern of selecting guys with our first selection players who were highly rated but have injury question marks which reminds me of Caruso saying a few years ago that they rate guys who can overcome injuries as it shows an ability to overcome hardship and might be a sign they can handle the difficulties of relocating to another state. So given that these guys are normally heading off after 2 years he might want to rethink that philosophy.
 

Giant Strides

Moderator
Nov 23, 2015
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2018 certainly looks bad with the one saving grace being that we selected a first round talent in Hill in the second round.
Also Caruso is showing a pattern of selecting guys with our first selection players who were highly rated but have injury question marks which reminds me of Caruso saying a few years ago that they rate guys who can overcome injuries as it shows an ability to overcome hardship and might be a sign they can handle the difficulties of relocating to another state. So given that these guys are normally heading off after 2 years he might want to rethink that philosophy.
I don't mind an occasional dip at someone who they think could overcome junior injuries and be outstanding, but essentially 2017, 2018 & 2020 we've gone the same approach.

Still, the go-home issue is the biggest issue. That's a bigger concern given last year.
 

PMBangers

Cupids' Cousin
Nov 7, 2017
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Interesting comment that you're happy with our half back runners (by which I presume Ash & Cumming, possibly Whitfield if you're slotting him in defence) - when I think many would see defence as a weakness at the moment.

If GWS was to get a top 5 pick (our own) plus a top 10 pick (Pies') who would you be looking at to patch up our list defiencies?
I'm happy with our rebounder, my thoughts on the need for another young KPD remain the same, I'd also love a more defensively minded general defender that's best 22, Idun I still doubt makes it as a consistent option

For us, you'll need to give a few weeks to get at least a game of each Vic get in, but tentatively I'd say Josh Rachele (in Shepparaton for his game today) or Tyler Sonsie in the top 5 as a bit if speed and class through the guts/ half forward line, with someone like Braden Andrews or Campbell Chesser as guys that can plug in a few different roles at a high level. I also wouldn't hate looking at Sam Banks from Tassie if his stocks are around the Top 10, should at least remove home sickness factor and he brings similar qualities as the others
 

Giant Strides

Moderator
Nov 23, 2015
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I'm happy with our rebounder, my thoughts on the need for another young KPD remain the same, I'd also love a more defensively minded general defender that's best 22, Idun I still doubt makes it as a consistent option

For us, you'll need to give a few weeks to get at least a game of each Vic get in, but tentatively I'd say Josh Rachele (in Shepparaton for his game today) or Tyler Sonsie in the top 5 as a bit if speed and class through the guts/ half forward line, with someone like Braden Andrews or Campbell Chesser as guys that can plug in a few different roles at a high level. I also wouldn't hate looking at Sam Banks from Tassie if his stocks are around the Top 10, should at least remove home sickness factor and he brings similar qualities as the others
Thanks. Obviously we need both the AFL season and the U19 season to play out, to see where we are, think about what we need (although I lack confidence the club will clearly need our needs), and consider who might be there.

I've liked the look of Josh Rachele since seeing some of his U16 work 2 years ago, he with his explosive speed from stoppages; or Tyler Sonsie with his ball use and decision-making - they sound exactly what we need for the midfield going forward ... if our match committee could choose to select them!

I think we both wanted a young KPD last year; but this year's draft class doesn't seem to have too many putting their hands up at this stage - although plenty of time to see. What are your thoughts on an over-ager, someone like Cody Raak (Bulldogs academy, unfortunately)?

In terms of a general defender, what would your thoughts be on someone like Brock Smith? Capable of offense as well as defence, not exactly fast but seemed in his draft year to be someone who could lock down and opponent. He will have done his 2 years at Lions end of this year, but seems further away than ever to get a chance. Could we look to tempt him with more opportunity (but only if we were serious about the opportunity!)?
 

PMBangers

Cupids' Cousin
Nov 7, 2017
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What are your thoughts on an over-ager, someone like Cody Raak (Bulldogs academy, unfortunately)?
As a general defensively minded medium sort, absolutely, but too short for a KPD spot at the next level.

Smith I don't mind and reckon he'd be a good fit for us, would be interesting to see what would be needed in a trade for him, dlanod would be our best source if info but I'd say he probably has a shot at Birchalls spot when he retires
 

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Giant Strides

Moderator
Nov 23, 2015
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As a general defensively minded medium sort, absolutely, but too short for a KPD spot at the next level.

Smith I don't mind and reckon he'd be a good fit for us, would be interesting to see what would be needed in a trade for him, dlanod would be our best source if info but I'd say he probably has a shot at Birchalls spot when he retires
Anyone in each category, in this year's draft, an over-ager, or a possible trade target that has your eye at this early stage?
 

PMBangers

Cupids' Cousin
Nov 7, 2017
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Anyone in each category, in this year's draft, an over-ager, or a possible trade target that has your eye at this early stage?
I'm guessing it'll be light on in the draft for KPD's, Bazzo from WA the stand out but I can't see any being Top 15 type selections. For trades it's hard as well, Rotham from WCE is one I liked in his draft year and has been good filling in when called upon, but that's about it.
 

dlanod

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Sep 14, 2006
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Smith I don't mind and reckon he'd be a good fit for us, would be interesting to see what would be needed in a trade for him, @dlanod would be our best source if info but I'd say he probably has a shot at Birchalls spot when he retires
Really gets next to no mention up here. Guys like Prior, Sharp and Madden are getting in and making a case first.
 

fridgeman

Club Legend
Jan 26, 2014
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What I think the club is showing is that years of players leaving after 1, 2 or more years is that the player development has suffered and the combinations are non existent on the field because of the constant turn over of players and what this year provides an opportunity is to re-start the program with the emphasis on retaining players and also improving the coaching structure and I think the question needs to be asked by the senior players and top club people is if Leon is the right person for the job or if a better candidate is available
I think it is too early in the season to make a call on players but questions need to be asked of all the players OOC if they see a future at the club they want to be part of and also if they are AFL standard
If the club gets to the end of the season and 6 wins is achieved but I think what is equally important is if those sub 20 game players have the potential to be part of a premiership team, where do players like Shipley, Sproule, Buckley and Idun fit in this and if they play 10-15 games each this season they will form the basis of that depth that the club has not had since 2017
I also think the development of some players has suffered because the coaches have had too many players to put time into and it must be deflating for them when some one like Caldwell walks after 2 years and countless hours on the track with the coaches. I look at Hill and Daniels as 2 that have suffered as they have not come on as they should have IMO, no goals from your small forwards is not going to win you games

The media will make a massive story out of the clubs start to the season and that is what they do to get the attention but it is important for us fans to try and focus on the positive which is the opportunity for the younger players to step up this year

I would hope the club can announce some re-signings for the club over the next few weeks to at least provide some light for us
 

Giant Strides

Moderator
Nov 23, 2015
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I'm with most of the thoughts posted here by fridgeman - the constant turnover of talent is what is hurting GWS the most. That's also why I disagree with the calls to have a massive cull of current players - that's not going to do any good for the future IMHO. That said, if players want out, it's the raw end of the prawn and we just need to get the best out of the deal as possible.

I'm also not as hard on Tim Taranto as others. While I would like him to tidy up his disposal, he still gets his hands on the ball a lot, and I can't see any benefit to our list by shedding him. In the near future, Ward & de Boer will be gone, and TT needs to be one of our mainstays - even with mediocre disposal (but learning how to manage that!). Right now, I'd have Ward and de Boer heavily relegated to second grade and supporting the kids' development, except for specific tagging jobs or when injuries intervene. Otherwise, TT, Hopper & Tom Green should be our inside rotation. And we need to stop dropping kids like Green & Riccardi every second or third game because they're not superstars. 6-gamers never lose the game for us, and while they flub their role sometimes, they need to learn from that, so that they can be better in the future.
 

Giant Pete

Norm Smith Medallist
Jan 17, 2013
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What do people think about us retaining Kelly on the supposed big contract? Would you rather we keep him or free ourselves of such a big weight?
Personally I see him as a quality player who would be amazing in a strong side.
In a team that is rebuilding I see his influence as being less so.
So I think it depends on what we do at seasons end... if we recruit a few mature players we try and keep him. If we blood the younger players perhaps let him go.
 

captainMyCaptain

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 30, 2011
7,278
5,446
Wollongong
AFL Club
GWS
What do people think about us retaining Kelly on the supposed big contract? Would you rather we keep him or free ourselves of such a big weight?
Personally I see him as a quality player who would be amazing in a strong side.
In a team that is rebuilding I see his influence as being less so.
So I think it depends on what we do at seasons end... if we recruit a few mature players we try and keep him. If we blood the younger players perhaps let him go.
If he ticks off on this deal that was previously agreed to do we have any choice
 

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