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List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part I

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Delisted;
-

Traded;
-

Retired;
Jake Carlisle
Shaun McKernan

Current Players Out of Contract;
3. Zak Jones - Link
6. Sebastian Ross (RFA) - Link
7. Luke Dunstan (RFA) - Link
13. Jack Lonie - Link
15. Jack Billings (RFA) - Link
18. Patrick Ryder - Link
24. James Frawley - Link
25. Dean Kent - Link
38. Oscar Clavarino - Link
39. Darragh Joyce - Link
41. Paul Hunter - Link
42. Max Heath - Link
45. Sam Alabakis - Link


To see the full list (it gets updated regularly) visit this thread;

List & Contract Status

SENIOR LIST 1. Jack Higgins 2. Marcus Windhager 3. Zak Jones 4. Lance Collard 5. Brad Crouch 6. Sebastian Ross 7. Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera 8. Bradley Hill 9. Jack Steele 10. Mitchito Owens 11. Hunter Clark 12. Max King 13. Ryan Byrnes 14. Liam Stocker 15. Paddy Dow 16. Daniel Butler 17. Isaac...
www.bigfooty.com www.bigfooty.com
 
Joffaboy said:
We were forced to blood kids this year and look how Highmore, Byrnes, Connelly and Sharman went for us. We keep plodders like Ross and Dunstan and their development is clogged
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That's illogical though. It's a lot easier to play surrounded by experience than it is to come in and be the main man. That's why sides like Gold Coast have a great list but remain uncompetitive. Byrnes has been great but he's still a step down form those guys at the moment. Like most kids his form fluctuates and he's playing a pretty loose and free running role. Sharman is amazing but 2 games in he's going to have games that aren't as good. Connolly averages about half of Seb Ross' stats playing a similar role off half back or back flank. Taking out the players and replacing with kids won't be quite as straight forward as you think.
 
#gosaintas said:
So how much are you offering Billings in a contract? What if he wants 700k which is less than what he's reportedly on? There's no way we should pay it. His output is between 400k - 500k
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I'd say put him on $500k and give him some B & F, flag and Brownlow bonuses. He's worth that at least. Hill gets $900k and is probably worse. He's had to go back to the easiest role on the ground that you usually put your kids in to to get them confidence an a kick.
 
gringo2011 said:
I'd say put him on $500k and give him some B & F, flag and Brownlow bonuses. He's worth that at least. Hill gets $900k and is probably worse. He's had to go back to the easiest role on the ground that you usually put your kids in to to get them confidence an a kick.
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If he's happy with 500K then yeah, he worth it. If he wants overs again he needs to go.
 
Joffaboy said:
We were forced to blood kids this year and look how Highmore, Byrnes, Connelly and Sharman went for us. We keep plodders like Ross and Dunstan and their development is clogged
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We’ve actually found a few and that’s great but what worries me is that looks either very luck or unbelievably good recruiting. Add to that we have a couple of senior players leaving and we have no idea who will be replacing them. Undoubtedly when we hear names or picks people will brighten up.
 
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gringo2011 said:
I'd say put him on $500k and give him some B & F, flag and Brownlow bonuses. He's worth that at least. Hill gets $900k and is probably worse. He's had to go back to the easiest role on the ground that you usually put your kids in to to get them confidence an a kick.
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That's one of the reasons i'm not over the moon about highly paid trades.
It can get the ones who do the heavy lifting pissed off.
 
kernelT said:
Coleman-Jones still unsigned, he's the bloke we should be gunning for… would be the perfect combo with Marshall for the next 5-10 years.

201cm 105kg, kicked 11 goals in 7 matches this year.
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I reckon he'd cost heaps though.
 
gringo2011 said:
We really need to move forward not stay still and you seriously dent your injury cover. Have a look at the North list compared to ours, there isn't much difference. Even Adelaide probably have a better spread of top end talent than us this year but less quality in their tier down from that because they are playing a youth heavy side.

We take out our tier down players and we are a lot less solid all of a sudden. If we have a couple of injuries and some kids stay still we could easily drop down the ladder. Suns should improve, Carlton should improve, GWS, Freo should improve, Collingwood and Adelaide are a bit of an unknown but aren't as bad as they look and North probably aren't moving more than a couple of spots up despite not being a walk over. West Coast and Richmond probably need a rebuild and could be on the slide but doubt they collapse completely.

To me weakening our list is a dangerous move because financially we just can afford to take a step backwards with our momentum. I know quite a few Saints supporters and there is definitely a lot of frustration out there after people thought that we were a lot closer than we are.
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How do you propose we grow our upper talent bracket without displacing some GOP's in the minimal timeframe possible?

On one hand you complain about lack of A grades or Stars, yet your dead set on retaining these deficient C-B grade players who won't take us forward.
And then you complain about the lack of kids on our list but under your policy they wouldn't get played anyway.

The reality is that you need a good run with injuries to get to the top so the idea of having plenty of depth is a bit of a waste of spots.
In our situation we still need to promote youth when the opportunity presents so depth in the over 26yo bracket is borderline pointless.

You can't have it both ways unfortunately. Our list status and the time imperative dictate that we have to stretch ourselves a bit thin next year.
The alternative is to stifle development and lose whatever trade value still exists on those GOP's.
 
Joffaboy said:
More interested with their views on Parker and Crouch. Parker still has no contract infront and Hanners needs some company in rehab so we should get Crouch :cool:
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Crouch would be fine Dunny replacement if he is injury free but you are taking gamble to replace someone who isn't really a massive upgrade. Parker would cost an absolute fortune. He's 29 next year and sounds as though he's after 5 or 6 year contract. He would have been a better option than Hill but it's tying up a lot of cash for a long time.
 
ScrappyDo said:
How do you propose we grow our upper talent bracket without displacing some GOP's in the minimal timeframe possible?

On one hand you complain about lack of A grades or Stars, yet your dead set on retaining these deficient C-B grade players who won't take us forward.
And then you complain about the lack of kids on our list but under your policy they wouldn't get played anyway.

The reality is that you need a good run with injuries to get to the top so the idea of having plenty of depth is a bit of a waste of spots.
In our situation we still need to promote youth when the opportunity presents so depth in the over 26yo bracket is borderline pointless.

You can't have it both ways unfortunately. Our list status and the time imperative dictate that we have to stretch ourselves a bit thin next year.
The alternative is to stifle development and lose whatever trade value still exists on those GOP's.
Click to expand...


You have to hit the top end of the draft and develop them, we sit out of the front end of drafts to get players like Hill, to me the culprits for our averageness are guys like Butler, Hill and others who are guaranteed games no matter how poor their form, moving those players out when a kid has better VFL form is the ideal.

Bytel should be playing every VFL game possible if he's not a starting player. He might not be the answer but you give him every opportunity to come on quicker. Byrnes plays and will get games and experience. Tell players like Clark that there is a midfield spot every week if he gets fit enough. Development isn't playing 15 kids every week. Sides that do that take longer and often lose the competitive instinct. Carlton still can't shake that loser attitude despite list improvement.

Having genuine selection integrity would do more than weakening the list. Playing bulk kids who are more likely to make us a bottom 4 side may not be the ideal model either. You can't turn an average player into a gun so cutting out decent players without an upgrade seems to defy logic. Most of our average players were promising youth 5 or 6 years ago.
 

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gringo2011 said:
I'd say put him on $500k and give him some B & F, flag and Brownlow bonuses. He's worth that at least. Hill gets $900k and is probably worse. He's had to go back to the easiest role on the ground that you usually put your kids in to to get them confidence an a kick.
Click to expand...
We’re looking like collingwood, what’s next a few rumours about jacks lifestyle etc. We decided to recruit and pay hill, crouch etc if the caps tighter than it should be direct the angst at the people responsible not the players.

Billings was flying in 2019 wasn‘t as good in 2020 and was really very good this year on one leg, probably would have been better for him if he just sat next to Hannebery for most of the year. He was averaging 24 possessions, 3 i50, 7 marks and had kicked 6 - 4 until he was injured, absolute passenger 😉.
 
kernelT said:
What are our spots looking like:

Definitely : McKernan, Roberton, Carlisle, Frawley - 4
Likely: Lonie, Kent, Hunter, Dunstan - 4
Maybe: Ross, Billings, Clavarino, Joyce, Wood, Alabakis - 6

Current picks: 7, 44, 62
Maybe 2 compo picks.

Probably can't afford to shunt more than 5 or 6 players.
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If Ross and Dunstan go, I'd be surprised if Kent doesnt get a 1 year deal.
 
Seb and Dunstan potentially have a say in this. It's all well and good to say when Clark and Bytel are playing, they'll become depth, but i highly doubt that's acceptable to either of them. I'm sure they both see themselves as best 22.
 
gringo2011 said:
Crouch would be fine Dunny replacement if he is injury free but you are taking gamble to replace someone who isn't really a massive upgrade. Parker would cost an absolute fortune. He's 29 next year and sounds as though he's after 5 or 6 year contract. He would have been a better option than Hill but it's tying up a lot of cash for a long time.
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yes good points on both. I see it ss the Hanners principle. Matt Crouch seems to be injury prone so how burnt are we by the Hanners saga? Parker is another Sydney mid after Hanners and Jones.

Do we really want to load up on 2012 Sydney mids and 2017 Adelaide mids in 2022? Could be an issue.

Anyway I think we will only need to replace Dunstan and/or Ross, I am hopeful with billings signs on for us. Easily in our best 22 and so much better than this year when fit.
Hope he stays and has a blinder in 2022.
 
Yawkey way said:
We’re looking like collingwood, what’s next a few rumours about jacks lifestyle etc. We decided to recruit and pay hill, crouch etc if the caps tighter than it should be direct the angst at the people responsible not the players.

Billings was flying in 2019 wasn‘t as good in 2020 and was really very good this year on one leg, probably would have been better for him if he just sat next to Hannebery for most of the year. He was averaging 24 possessions, 3 i50, 7 marks and had kicked 6 - 4 until he was injured, absolute passenger 😉.
Click to expand...

Who said the cap is tight?
 

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Ducky Tie said:
It's hard to tell if it's cheap or not. If he ends up being even remotely close to the player he was drafted to be then getting him for a second rounder is very cheap. If he stays where he is then a second rounder is overs. Lipinski and Brodie are probably safer, but potentially a lower ceiling. I think we've got enough midfielders who can go through and be solid citizens in there so I'd probably prefer to punt on someone who is a bit more high risk/high reward. I'm not sold on him either though.
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yeah in terms of midfielders I'm happy for the 3 mids we're drafting to rotate through for some early exposure
 
Yawkey way said:
He’ll have a lot of interest including from Adelaide, he definitely won’t be cheap.
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I would be looking at Chol, the other one is Mason Cox, 30 and thinking if giving it away I hear. Has had a lot of bad luck especially with injuries to his head but if he could ruck for 60% game time and has kicked goals in big games. Not a natural footballer but wont get shorter at the end of a game. If our small forwards couldnt kick a goal or two while he was resting in the forward line then I would sack the small forwards although it looks like 2 of them are on the outer.
 
BrutThough said:
If Ross and Dunstan go, I'd be surprised if Kent doesnt get a 1 year deal.
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He chose a good time to put up his best footy. Wood stays I think. I'd probably only keep one but as KIT said there is only so many empty spots you can fill in one off season.
 
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