List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part I

George · Aug 22, 2021

Delisted;
-

Traded;
-

Retired;
Jake Carlisle
Shaun McKernan

Current Players Out of Contract;
3. Zak Jones - Link
6. Sebastian Ross (RFA) - Link
7. Luke Dunstan (RFA) - Link
13. Jack Lonie - Link
15. Jack Billings (RFA) - Link
18. Patrick Ryder - Link
24. James Frawley - Link
25. Dean Kent - Link
38. Oscar Clavarino - Link
39. Darragh Joyce - Link
41. Paul Hunter - Link
42. Max Heath - Link
45. Sam Alabakis - Link

To see the full list (it gets updated regularly) visit this thread;

List & Contract Status

SENIOR LIST 1. Jack Higgins 2. Marcus Windhager 3. Zak Jones 4. Lance Collard 5. Brad Crouch 6. Sebastian Ross 7. Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera 8. Bradley Hill 9. Jack Steele 10. Mitchito Owens 11. Hunter Clark 12. Max King 13. Ryan Byrnes 14. Liam Stocker 15. Paddy Dow 16. Daniel Butler 17. Isaac...

www.bigfooty.com

gringo2011 · May 26, 2021

SaintsSeptember said:
We'd have all be melting if we'd picked Naughton in that draft.

Not for long. We melt anyway, might as well draft controversial good players than shit ones.

Winmar2Lockett · May 26, 2021

gringo2011 said:
Or get someone who makes good decisions 90% of the time so that another 10 years of stuff ups don't haunt us. You want to be spending money in the right areas. Having someone who is top shelf in the drafting and talent identification areas is more important than a good coach. Even Clarkson can't make poo into gold.

Which recruiter has made good decisions 90% of the time?

LiterallyNobody · May 26, 2021

gringo2011 said:
Not for long. We melt anyway, might as well draft controversial good players than sh*t ones.

Coffield is not a SHIT player though. He’s shown last year and throughout what he is actually capable of. Also until naughton got those six goals against Melbourne last year he wasn’t really highly rated either. Think people need to settle down on the whole we should’ve picked this player instead of that player.

Whatever picks we end up with in the draft - I hope they ALL go to midfielders. We need to get midfield depth. It is more important than any other part of the ground for us. Mids, mids, mids...

Winmar2Lockett · May 26, 2021

Beard of Zeus said:
If the contract value isn't exorbitant, this is a good result. We overrated Ross all the way along.

He's a solid citizen, no more or less. We would never get good trade value for him, so it's best he stays (at the right value)

On Pixel 4a using BigFooty.com mobile app

Seb is the least of our problems.

His form has actually been pretty good since mid 2020.

Veer Right · May 26, 2021

Winmar2Lockett said:
Which recruiter has made good decisions 90% of the time?

Bulldogs list manager/s

BrutThough · May 26, 2021

SaintsSeptember said:
We'd have all be melting if we'd picked Naughton in that draft.

And no one seemed to be melting when Coffield was taking the Dogs forward line apart in the last quarter of the final.

He's in a form slump no doubt, but he is only 21. Plenty of very good players experience form slumps.

If Coff is half the player he has already shown he can be, he will find his way out of it and become better a player because of it.

BrutThough · May 26, 2021

Winmar2Lockett said:
Seb is the least of our problems.

His form has actually been pretty good since mid 2020.

Especially since one complaint recently has been we have too many imports and not enough St Kilda people.

Seb's not the perfect player, but he is a St Kilda person. He's won 2 bnf's for us, he captained us when Geary was injured, been there with the past generation and is now part of this new group.

We haven't got many players who have been around the club for a long time. And as long as he is playing good footy (and he has been), there is no need to push out one of the few homegrown products.

saintkildaman · May 26, 2021

stavro#4 said:
Dunno. Does it matter? He isn’t a horrible player. On less money, just take it and move on.

Yet you are keen to ship off Billings?? Better compo or not surely you’d take Billings resigning on a reduced contract and move on?

stavro#4 · May 26, 2021

saintkildaman said:
Yet you are keen to ship off Billings?? Better compo or not surely you’d take Billings resigning on a reduced contract and move on?

If we can get a compo pick for Billings, my thinking is the below and thus why I am i favour.

Out: Billings
FRP 2022
FRP 2023

In: Compo pick after our first (somewhere between pick 5-7)
Using four FRP 2021 (somewhere between 4-6)
Ben King

Kildonan · May 26, 2021

Winmar2Lockett said:
Seb is the least of our problems.

His form has actually been pretty good since mid 2020.

But we need to focus on fielding players who can hit a target. Ross has been a great player in that he gets the ball a lot, but like Dunstan and maybe Newnes as well, Ross has had to modify his game because his disposal is so poor that he doesn't hurt the opposition much. Ross the tagger has been more useful to us than his previous incarnation as a midfielder.

Poor disposal can be a killer. While in possession, our players stream forward at pace to try and catch the opposition in a strategic mismatch. A poor kick places all of those players in a strategic mismatch the other way, out of position and unrewarded for their hard work

We need to retain possession and kick accurately, or we need to work harder than the opposition. Doing neither is a recipe for more WB type results, working harder than the opposition sounds like a good recipe but it will result in fatigue and injury, doing one or the other during matches will win us the most games.

We have not adapted to the standing on the mark rule as optimally as other teams have, and we dont seem to be able to help King reach his potential.

Players who kick poorly are not the answer.

Trading is unlikely to be the answer. We have the wrong list profile to continue adding mature aged players. We need kids who can kick well.
Go to the draft and pick up all the best kicks available.

gringo2011 · May 26, 2021

Winmar2Lockett said:
Which recruiter has made good decisions 90% of the time?

I'd take 20% of the time then. We have drafted one absolute gun since Goddard and that was Jack Steven who's career came and went without playing finals. We are criminally shithouse at drafting. Just pulling random names out of a hat would have got a better result and they wouldn't even have had to be players in the draft.

Yawkey way · May 26, 2021

Winmar2Lockett said:
Which recruiter has made good decisions 90% of the time?

It depends what you’re judging them on, no one hits that often it’s why they miss that matters imo.

gringo2011 · May 26, 2021

El_Duderino said:
Coffield is not a sh*t player though. He’s shown last year and throughout what he is actually capable of. Also until naughton got those six goals against Melbourne last year he wasn’t really highly rated either. Think people need to settle down on the whole we should’ve picked this player instead of that player.

Whatever picks we end up with in the draft - I hope they ALL go to midfielders. We need to get midfield depth. It is more important than any other part of the ground for us. Mids, mids, mids...

Coffield is an okay player but Naughton is Carey like. It really is quite bizarre that not one of our players has just been an absolute superstar over the last decade. Surely we are due for luck to jump over the top of incompetence and find us a star. Coffield should get back but right now he looks barely VFL standard. I can't believe how far backwards he's gone. He looked AA quality last year.

gringo2011 · May 26, 2021

Kildonan said:
But we need to focus on fielding players who can hit a target. Ross has been a great player in that he gets the ball a lot, but like Dunstan and maybe Newnes as well, Ross has had to modify his game because his disposal is so poor that he doesn't hurt the opposition much. Ross the tagger has been more useful to us than his previous incarnation as a midfielder.

Poor disposal can be a killer. While in possession, our players stream forward at pace to try and catch the opposition in a strategic mismatch. A poor kick places all of those players in a strategic mismatch the other way, out of position and unrewarded for their hard work

We need to retain possession and kick accurately, or we need to work harder than the opposition. Doing neither is a recipe for more WB type results, working harder than the opposition sounds like a good recipe but it will result in fatigue and injury, doing one or the other during matches will win us the most games.

We have not adapted to the standing on the mark rule as optimally as other teams have, and we dont seem to be able to help King reach his potential.

Players who kick poorly are not the answer.

Trading is unlikely to be the answer. We have the wrong list profile to continue adding mature aged players. We need kids who can kick well.
Go to the draft and pick up all the best kicks available.

I think it's part of the problem, Ratts has come in and wanted our list like peak Hawks. He's moved on a lot of poor kicks but our core is fairly unskilled and ordinary. Richmond realised that about themselves and started to play a game style that covers their lack of elite skills. I still think Richo taught Hardwick that after we smashed them using our run and gun get it forward and pressure game plan. Most sides use it now to some extent, pump the ball forward at pace and try to stop the defensive zone setting up ahead ion the ball. The sides that don't are WCE, Collingwood, Geelong and Adelaide a bit. All of them use a more precision based ball movement to move through traffic and set up a forward on lead or spill to the smalls. Ratts seems to have gone more towards the Geelong model after they ripped us apart and now we are slowing stodgy as well as poorly skilled. perhaps it's in anticipation of King becoming an elite target.

_Maximus_12 · May 26, 2021

stavro#4 said:
No way we trade Coffield a few months after re-signing him. That’s shambolic.

Look I hope not, but this recruiting team has done worse.

_Maximus_12 · May 26, 2021

gringo2011 said:
I'd take 20% of the time then. We have drafted one absolute gun since Goddard and that was Jack Steven who's career came and went without playing finals. We are criminally shithouse at drafting. Just pulling random names out of a hat would have got a better result and they wouldn't even have had to be players in the draft.

We've also traded a significant amount of early picks in the last 15 years. The club has historically been pretty good with early picks, but we seem not to place a premium on young talent, especially recently.

Sully111 · May 26, 2021

My issue with trading Billings is he's a good kick. That's what we need... good kicks.

CaptainRisky · May 26, 2021

stavro#4 said:
If we can get a compo pick for Billings, my thinking is the below and thus why I am i favour.

Out: Billings
FRP 2022
FRP 2023

In: Compo pick after our first (somewhere between pick 5-7)
Using four FRP 2021 (somewhere between 4-6)
Ben King

I love how you put if in , no way we would get a pick between 5-7 for billings

CaptainRisky · May 26, 2021

So its sink the slipper into Coff day is it , who do you have in mind to belt tomorrow, So Coff has been down a bit and all of a sudden he is an easy target FMD

stavro#4 · May 26, 2021

CaptainRisky said:
I love how you put if in , no way we would get a pick between 5-7 for billings

It’s a first round compo pick after our first.
Playing the kids to see what is on our list should result in a really low pick for us.
Someone matching Billings current deal which is plausible. Gets us a compo after it.

CaptainRisky · May 26, 2021

stavro#4 said:
It’s a first round compo pick after our first.
Playing the kids to see what is on our list should result in a really low pick for us.
Someone matching Billings current deal which is plausible. Gets us a compo after it.

I agree that we need to see if Clav is going to make it but he needs 3-4 games at least and Leo who i think will make it no doubt but there is not a lot left worth pumping games into , Highmore needs a decent run at it too , not in one week and out the next .
I still just dont see us getting a pick that low for Billings

g_TRAIN · May 26, 2021

In my opinion, our team has a lot of players that would go to another level in a good side.

But together as a group, no one is there to lift them all up.

Bruce now at the Bulldogs is a good example.

Billings and Hill would be fantastic if the team around them was dominant

Saintbloke · May 26, 2021

Coff to FF.

Ducky Tie · May 26, 2021

Sully111 said:
My issue with trading Billings is he's a good kick. That's what we need... good kicks.

I'm not an advocate for trading Billings, but his kicking has not developed as it should have. He came in as a young player who was creative and pulled off very good kicks consistently. The last few years, he has become a player who takes a long time to decide what to do before generally going long and down the line. He doesn't hurt oppositions very much with his kicking. Still a solid kick nonetheless.

g_TRAIN · May 26, 2021

Billings is a good kick but he doesn't attempt anything daring.. When have you ever seen him with a 45m cross into a leading player down the middle of the ground?

He usually just plays in a straight line

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