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List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part I

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Delisted;
-

Traded;
-

Retired;
Jake Carlisle
Shaun McKernan

Current Players Out of Contract;
3. Zak Jones - Link
6. Sebastian Ross (RFA) - Link
7. Luke Dunstan (RFA) - Link
13. Jack Lonie - Link
15. Jack Billings (RFA) - Link
18. Patrick Ryder - Link
24. James Frawley - Link
25. Dean Kent - Link
38. Oscar Clavarino - Link
39. Darragh Joyce - Link
41. Paul Hunter - Link
42. Max Heath - Link
45. Sam Alabakis - Link


To see the full list (it gets updated regularly) visit this thread;

List & Contract Status

SENIOR LIST 1. Jack Higgins 2. Marcus Windhager 3. Zak Jones 4. Lance Collard 5. Brad Crouch 6. Sebastian Ross 7. Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera 8. Bradley Hill 9. Jack Steele 10. Mitchito Owens 11. Hunter Clark 12. Max King 13. Ryan Byrnes 14. Liam Stocker 15. Paddy Dow 16. Daniel Butler 17. Isaac...
www.bigfooty.com www.bigfooty.com
 
ScrappyDo said:
Thanks ARR.

Can't help but wonder if we had Stuv, Armo, Hanners, Freezer and Koby on the list and functional.
We've been ravaged by early retirements unfortunately.
Click to expand...
We knew Hanners was a risk though and we knew Freemans body was stuffed years ago.

None of the above excuse us not taking a mid at all last year.
 
bird_man said:
We've taken one midfielder in the top 40 of the draft since we took Gresham. And we refuse to play the one we took in the midfield.

We've been a little unlucky with injuries but none of those are taking us to the promise land. We need to invest heavily in mids in the draft.

We should have taken Poulter last year instead of worrying about key position depth with our first pick. We need to cross our fingers a quality mid falls where our first does this year. There are a few in the draft but it will depend where our pick ends up.
Click to expand...
Drafting is only half the picture. I agree with what you're saying, but to ignore our trading is to ignor Steele, Crouch and Jones.
 

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gringo2011 said:
Looks okay now but so did Acres and Dunstan at the same point. Paddy and Hugh were our star bookends and Billings was going to be better than Bont.
Click to expand...

Acres barely played for his 1st 2 seasons & then showed flashes of inconsistent but exciting play... Dunstan never improved after his 1st.... Paddy & Hugh injury write offs.... Billings was never in front of or going to be better than Bont.

Whereas

Clark has shown he'll be a star
Winx too.
Coff was brilliant last year... has probably got ahead of himself but too talented to not make it.
Roma is a star
Gresh is a star with no luck
Paton was looking like being a lock for 200+ games

Plus good early signs with Bytel and Byrnes.

We can be as miserable as we want to about the current predicament but blaming our recent drafting is way off the mark IMO.
 
aussierulesrules said:
It wasn’t really a massive call at all, especially from a long term POV.

Sam Maclure (who we supposedly run our info through since Lethlean arrived) was actually the one who reported it, pre draft in 2018:

www.theage.com.au

Draft night: the story behind the picks
The live trading of picks for the first time will add a whole new element to the national draft, but we take a look behind the scenes into the thought processes of clubs as they prepare for draft night.
www.theage.com.au
www.theage.com.au

“The Saints look set to take Max King at pick four, despite the difference of opinion internally.

National recruiting boss Chris Liberatore is a huge fan of South Australian midfield gun Connor Rozee, while head of footy Simon Lethlean has kept a close eye on King for years.

King – seen by many recruiters and list managers as the best player in the draft – would almost certainly have been taken at pick one had he not torn his ACL earlier this year.

It’s expected that Lethlean will win that debate, take King with four and then work on how to lure his brother Ben – likely to be taken at six by Gold Coast - back to Victoria in two years”

So Lethlean supposedly took the guy who many rated as the best in a genuine “superdraft”, who also happened to grow up 5 minutes from Moorabbin, and barrack for the club, and who also happened to have a twin brother, who also barracked for the club, and who would be a good chance of being drafted by an interstate club (thus being more “poachable” in coming years).

As for Paddy v Petracca, the mistake there was that we went tall over small for a different reason. Being that we thought it would cost too much to trade in a “tall”, so we’d just draft one of our own.

On the other hand I think we went with Max because he was “best available”, a “generational talent”, and also happened to be tall. And have a twin brother who also barracked for the club as a potential bonus.
Click to expand...
Spot on
 
ScrappyDo said:
In the last few years, we've lost Koby, Freezer and Hanners.
This year it's Gresh and Jones.

Some will say it's bad management but at least they've been trying to do something about it.
Click to expand...


Freezer was a known injury risk as was Hanners It's a bit rich to call that bad luck, that is poor list management and possibly overrating our medical department. Richo was not that big a fan of Koby, he seemed to be in and out a fair bit.
 
gringo2011 said:
Freezer was a known injury risk as was Hanners It's a bit rich to call that bad luck, that is poor list management and possibly overrating our medical department. Richo was not that big a fan of Koby, he seemed to be in and out a fair bit.
Click to expand...
It's a combination of a few things. Koby was no world beater but he was a solid GOP, hard at it, and would be handy right now.
I think the mistake with Hanners was to try and get him back to %100. We should have accepted a lower training base and just kept him going.
Freezer was a worthwhile punt that maybe just required more patients.

I fear that Gresh will go the way of Freezer too if we don't back off his regime and stick him back in the forward line.

And you're right. We do over rate our medical department in so much as their ability to turn sh1t into sugar. Most bodies are not able to withstand the rigors of AFL, and pushing potentially good footballers to breaking point is a practice that need to stop.
 
bird_man said:
I reckon if that draft was done again today, the only player taken ahead of King would be Walsh (or possibly Ben)
Click to expand...

I reckon if that draft was done again then Gold Coast would draft the twins with picks 2 & 3.

It was a no brainer on draft night, especially as player retention was threatening the existence of the club. Still can’t believe they didn’t do it.
 

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Yawkey way said:
You make a compelling case where do we sign?

I think every Victorian club will be queuing up with a high first and extras for a young mid who averaged 17.4 possessions, 2.1 clearances per week and smashed the score board with 2 goals and 3 behinds for the year.

You were garbage last year and the state of your team reflects his top 10 finish in the b&f, cerra looks ok and that’s about it.

Your obsession with hill speaks volumes, you’re desperate to get a proven match winning premiership player back into your team. I think we’ll keep our contracted player thanks, when he’s good he’s great and when he’s not we need someone to blame.

Seriously the going rate on Cerra would be around what Caldwell cost the bombers, pick 29 and a future second for Caldwell, pick 44 and 74.
Click to expand...
Back in reality Cerra averages 21.6 possessions this year and uses the ball brilliantly. Yep keep Hill and his contract fine .Im sure it won't stop you bringing in new recruits at all.
 
bird_man said:
I reckon if that draft was done again today, the only player taken ahead of King would be Walsh (or possibly Ben)
Click to expand...
St Neil said:
I reckon if that draft was done again then Gold Coast would draft the twins with picks 2 & 3.

It was a no brainer on draft night, especially as player retention was threatening the existence of the club. Still can’t believe they didn’t do it.
Click to expand...
The part no one wants to actually mention - because it completely distorts reality of how good would stkilda be now had we taken Petracca over McCartin

But if we drafted Petracca at 1 - we wouldn’t be finishing low enough to have drafted King. We probably miss out and take Smith.

So we still have this issue where we have no talls in the forward line outside of Bruce Membrey and Marshall - which are all inconsistent at best as forwards. We never would have been in the running for Cameron. So we are trying to trade and poach one of the kings (can’t get both) or a McKay and that’s a lot of money.

The truth is that some will say we would be in a better position if we had Petracca and say Smith - where as I am of the belief that we are better off having Max - bringing in Ben and finding midfielders via other means. Mids might win you a flag on the day. But unless you have a west coast 05/06 midfield or maybe a Brisbane 4some. Then you need some amazing luck to win one without a bonafide superstar forward in the side.
 
sherrif said:
Back in reality Cerra averages 21.6 possessions this year and uses the ball brilliantly. Yep keep Hill and his contract fine .Im sure it won't stop you bringing in new recruits at all.
Click to expand...
Did you miss where we openly said we need to take our first round pick.

Also you have no idea what our salary cap position is or will be so give the speculation a rest. What we know is that you haven’t come to terms with cerra, he’s out of contract and carlton are in the frame. I wasn’t winding you up with his value, that‘s what I believe you can expect if he nominates carlton.

You’re best hope is a bidding war but it’s really down to cerra and his manager, it’s hard on the dockers but that’s how things stand.
 
stavro#4 said:
The part no one wants to actually mention - because it completely distorts reality of how good would stkilda be now had we taken Petracca over McCartin

But if we drafted Petracca at 1 - we wouldn’t be finishing low enough to have drafted King. We probably miss out and take Smith.

So we still have this issue where we have no talls in the forward line outside of Bruce Membrey and Marshall - which are all inconsistent at best as forwards. We never would have been in the running for Cameron. So we are trying to trade and poach one of the kings (can’t get both) or a McKay and that’s a lot of money.

The truth is that some will say we would be in a better position if we had Petracca and say Smith - where as I am of the belief that we are better off having Max - bringing in Ben and finding midfielders via other means. Mids might win you a flag on the day. But unless you have a west coast 05/06 midfield or maybe a Brisbane 4some. Then you need some amazing luck to win one without a bonafide superstar forward in the side.
Click to expand...

Garbage , Petracca was rubbish before we got King.
He's not the messiah.
If we'd taken Petracca instead of McCartin, we'd have one better player.
 
SaintsSeptember said:
Garbage , Petracca was rubbish before we got King.
He's not the messiah.
If we'd taken Petracca instead of McCartin, we'd have one better player.
Click to expand...
Suggest you review Petraccas 2018 season. Pretty decent.

We only finished 2 points behind Brisbane that year aswell.
 
Winmar2Lockett said:
Acres barely played for his 1st 2 seasons & then showed flashes of inconsistent but exciting play... Dunstan never improved after his 1st.... Paddy & Hugh injury write offs.... Billings was never in front of or going to be better than Bont.

Whereas

Clark has shown he'll be a star
Winx too.
Coff was brilliant last year... has probably got ahead of himself but too talented to not make it.
Roma is a star
Gresh is a star with no luck
Paton was looking like being a lock for 200+ games

Plus good early signs with Bytel and Byrnes.

We can be as miserable as we want to about the current predicament but blaming our recent drafting is way off the mark IMO.
Click to expand...


I'd say all of them look amazing on potential but there are a million stories of potential that never got actualised. North had a similar bad luck with injuries and wasn't allowed as an excuse.
 

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stavro#4 said:
Suggest you review Petraccas 2018 season. Pretty decent.

We only finished 2 points behind Brisbane that year aswell.
Click to expand...
20 disposals and just a tick under a goal a game.

Was a sliding-doors moment though so it’s pure guesswork as to what would have happened since, had we picked Petracca over Paddy.
 
aussierulesrules said:
20 disposals and just a tick under a goal a game.

Was a sliding-doors moment though so it’s pure guesswork as to what would have happened since, had we picked Petracca over Paddy.
Click to expand...
You are right. But that also strengthens the point I’m making about the stupidity of saying if we had drafted A over. B or C instead of D how we would be successful now.

Chances are that if we take a bont over Billings we aren’t in the McCartin Petracca convo or in the king convo etc etc.

It’s why you can only look forward.
 
stavro#4 said:
The truth is that some will say we would be in a better position if we had Petracca and say Smith - where as I am of the belief that we are better off having Max - bringing in Ben and finding midfielders via other means. Mids might win you a flag on the day. But unless you have a west coast 05/06 midfield or maybe a Brisbane 4some. Then you need some amazing luck to win one without a bonafide superstar forward in the side.
Click to expand...

Have you heard anything about Gold Coast’s mindset in relation to Ben King?

Would they be open to trading him early if they believed he was likely seek a trade at the end of his contract?

Or will they, as a matter principle, enforce his contract, regardless of whether they believe he will re-sign?
 
St Neil said:
Have you heard anything about Gold Coast’s mindset in relation to Ben King. Would they be open to trading him early if they believed he was likely seek a trade at the end of his contract?

Or will they, as a matter principle, enforce his contract, regardless of whether they believe he will re-sign?
Click to expand...
All I’ve heard and I mentioned this the other week to a few in a PM is that the confidence of King being a saint is really high from those at the club. Like - happy to share with stkilda people and not just internally confident type of high.

I think Gold Coast are putting everything in the “make finals and he’ll stay” basket and they are a way off that this year.

I do truly believe that if Ben says to the Suns that he is going home and coming to us regardless of anything. That there is a chance we could land him this year.
 
stavro#4 said:
The part no one wants to actually mention - because it completely distorts reality of how good would stkilda be now had we taken Petracca over McCartin

But if we drafted Petracca at 1 - we wouldn’t be finishing low enough to have drafted King. We probably miss out and take Smith.

So we still have this issue where we have no talls in the forward line outside of Bruce Membrey and Marshall - which are all inconsistent at best as forwards. We never would have been in the running for Cameron. So we are trying to trade and poach one of the kings (can’t get both) or a McKay and that’s a lot of money.

The truth is that some will say we would be in a better position if we had Petracca and say Smith - where as I am of the belief that we are better off having Max - bringing in Ben and finding midfielders via other means. Mids might win you a flag on the day. But unless you have a west coast 05/06 midfield or maybe a Brisbane 4some. Then you need some amazing luck to win one without a bonafide superstar forward in the side.
Click to expand...

Not much evidence that you need good forwards. JRoo and smalls, Boyd and smalls, Collingwood, Geelong and Sydney didn't have a superstar forward when they they won. Hawks won without Buddy, Swans didn't with him. We didn't with Rooey etc. Lynch helped the Tigers but hardly made the difference either.

You need some stars regardless. Having Petracca would have been amazing and adding stars never goes astray.
 
stavro#4 said:
All I’ve heard and I mentioned this the other week to a few in a PM is that the confidence of King being a saint is really high from those at the club. Like - happy to share with stkilda people and not just internally confident type of high.

I think Gold Coast are putting everything in the “make finals and he’ll stay” basket and they are a way off that this year.

I do truly believe that if Ben says to the Suns that he is going home and coming to us regardless of anything. That there is a chance we could land him this year.
Click to expand...

Thank you for sharing. It is greatly appreciated.

You are a very important and valued contributor to this board.
 
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