List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part II

George · Aug 24, 2021

Continued in Part III

List Mgmt. - 2021 Trade Thread - Part III

We are onto Part 3.

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Delisted;
Oscar Clavarino
Sam Alabakis

Traded;
-

Retired;
Jake Carlisle
Dylan Roberton
Shaun McKernan
James Frawley

Current Players Out of Contract;
7. Luke Dunstan (RFA) - Link
13. Jack Lonie - Link
25. Dean Kent - Link
39. Darragh Joyce - Link
41. Paul Hunter - Link

To see the full list (it gets updated regularly) visit this thread;

List & Contract Status

SENIOR LIST 1. Jack Higgins 2. Marcus Windhager 3. Zak Jones 4. Lance Collard 5. Brad Crouch 6. Sebastian Ross 7. Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera 8. Bradley Hill 9. Jack Steele 10. Mitchito Owens 11. Hunter Clark 12. Max King 13. Ryan Byrnes 14. Liam Stocker 15. Paddy Dow 16. Daniel Butler 17. Isaac...

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Restricted and Unrestricted Free Agency Window
Friday October 1 – Friday October 8

Trade Period
Players: Monday October 4 – Wednesday October 13
Picks: Monday October 4 – tbc (approx. Friday November 19)

List Lodgement 1
tbc (approx. Thursday October 28)

Delisted Free Agency Window 1
tbc (approx. Friday October 29 - Monday November 8)

List Lodgement 2 (Final date for primary list delistings)
tbc (approx. Tuesday November 9)

Delisted Free Agency Window 2
tbc (approx. Wednesday November 10 - Friday November 19)

St Kilda Death · Sep 12, 2021

Of these kids being discussed,
I think bytel has the highest ceiling, could be anything. Floor of a dunstan type, 150 gamer at worst.

Leo also could be anything, electric with the ball, needs to work on the physical side though or his career may be short.

Reckon Byrnes is the least likely to reach star level but has already shown enough versatility to be around for a long time.

CaptainRisky · Sep 12, 2021

Joffaboy said:
Didn't come in late because of cricket. Jack Billings apparently said have a look at him.
Was a bit of a speculator and had paid off. Took a few seasons but this season was excellent

No doubt he had a great season

CaptainRisky · Sep 12, 2021

BrutThough said:
Saying one attribute a player has is top level - so in this case Sinclair and his vision/footy smarts - isnt saying that he is an elite player. It's just praising one aspect of his game.

There are a lot of things he's had to work on over the journey to get himself to the level he is now. But he's had the natural smarts since day 1.

Sugar coat it anyway you want , you said Elite , anyway i have scones to bake

Gosaints12 · Sep 12, 2021

CaptainRisky said:
Sugar coat it anyway you want , you said Elite , anyway i have scones to bake

Save me one?

Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Dr Spaceman · Sep 12, 2021

CaptainRisky said:
Sugar coat it anyway you want , you said Elite , anyway i have scones to bake

Can go any baked good.

Diehard Saint · Sep 12, 2021

triggering bro said:
I just look at their skill sets.

Byrnes looks like he could play just about anywhere. He fights hard for the footy & can run & spread. Could even play him forward or as an attacking running back based on his athletic profile. I really think he can reach Jack Steven levels.

On the other hand Bytel looks a bit one paced capable of being a contested pig but low impact/low metres gained type.

Would love nothing more than for Bytel to prove me wrong!

Every team needs a good ball pig, but his hands look very good. A different player from Byrnes possibly, but hopefully can also develop another string to his bow. Needs some quick development considering he lost a year to his back injury and then another couple to covid. Hope he gets played now that Dunstan appears gone.

CaptainRisky · Sep 12, 2021

Dr Spaceman said:
Can go any baked good.

With cream and jam

gringo2011 · Sep 12, 2021

Joffaboy said:
Was touted as a FRDP and then was out a year with his back.
Debatable if that will affect his career.

Ok. Very big caveat on this. It was a very lowly Essendon VFL team and we absolutely pumped them. I was about to go at 3/4 but stayed specifically to watch Bytel absolutely tear it up in the guts, he must have got every clearance for the qtr, about 7, there was one he didn't as he was on the bench.
His disposal must have gone @ near 100%.

He was the closest thing to Bont I had seen in a Saints jersey.
Look I am a mug punter, and it was VFL. Plenty can kill it at VFL and spud it up in the seniors, the opposition was ordinary but Bytel was more than a prospect. Hanners played that game and Bytel made him look second rate.

His game v Freo was a good start, needs to get about 8 more possessions so a 25 possession 8 tackle 2 goal game would be eye catching.

He made me a believer that day v Essendon.

Yeah, I've seen Lonie look like a mini Joel Selwood at Sandy. Guys like Freezer and Templeton look better than most AFL listed players in the VFL. It's a poor guide to form. He's had shithouse development with Covid and medisub duties stopping his progression. He's played a handful of games at any level since he was 16.

gringo2011 · Sep 12, 2021

St Kilda Death said:
King, gresh, Clark, Coffield, Billings in the first round.

Marshall, Sinclair, Paton, Sharman, Bytel, Byrnes, Connolly, Wilkie, highmore later picks.

trading in Steele, higgins, crouch, Howard, Butler, Jones, hill, membrey.

not bad recruiting for the last 8 years. Even when injuries ruined mccartin, Goddard, hanners and Jake.

problem is all we have to show before that. Whereas melb already had viney, MacDonald and max the pussy destroyer Gawn on their list prior to 2013.
and that’s where I think we are at, a couple of stars and a bit of tall depth behind the 8 ball.

I think the last 3 years have been good. King looks a worthy first rounder. A lot of those others before that are not quite more than B graders.

If you look at the 2017 list -so the list before the last three drafts, Marshall, Steele, Membrey and Sinclair the only ones above B graders. Ross, Dmac, Webster, Gresham, Billings, Ross, Dunstan, Lonie, Geary, Battle and Joyce are the others we have left. Steele is the only elitish one. After this year we will have likely delisted or moved on 33 out of 45 listed in 2017.

Mangus · Sep 12, 2021

None of Bytel Byrnes or Connolly are probably in our best 22 as of today all no doubt got games this year due to the injuries of others and as an investment in their development. All need a couple more proper pre-seasons to be genuine AFL players, by all accounts, we stuffed our pre-season last year and to me Bytel in particular stagnated he desperately needs to develop his running to be able to be a contributor outside of the stoppages. Currently he is invisible in general play, a big preseason is required as he needs to develop an engine.

It is a bit of a theme with all our kids Clark and Coffield included. Some players have the capacity for the hard work required some think just doing the bare minimum is enough. Steele has turned himself into a machine by hard work hopefully that is the standard the young guys are aspiring to now. Might pay to train Bytel up to play the run with role like we did with Steele initially otherwise it will be pretty tough if he needs to hold his place purely on his own production. Give him a role with clear instructions something to train for and see if he can build his game from there. Of course this is only feasible if he can build his running capacity to go with the opposition mids.

For me when projecting the future for the three Bytel has the hardest path to lock in a regular spot but the upside if he makes it is the most impactful to the teams improvement.

Connoly is the one I enjoy watching the most he plays footy with dare and excitement I think he is more like Hill than Sinclair but like both of them he will need to become a running machine to make the most of his talent. He is not a mid he is a wing HBF and specifically an attacking one. It took Sinclair years to find the right role and the physical maturity to be a consistently good player. Early days he was undersized and one of the worlds worst tacklers and didn't have a defined role now he is a complete player and the key outlet from Half Back. Hopefully, the coaches work out a way to make the most of Leo's strengths with the ball in hand while they build the physical skills needed to defend and compete.

I see most others really rate Byrnes he is the one I have the hardest time working out what his ultimate role will be. I haven't seen him play much if any genuine mid so not sure if he has that scope at AFL level. I haven't particularly noticed him win contested ball or be the first receive and break from stoppage. He seems generally good at most aspects of the game, relatively quick but I haven't seen the standout skillset. At the moment he is spending time on the Flanks I don't see that as a long term role for him but have not seen him prove he can play on ball as well. He is not a huge guy and I expect that is what is preventing them playing him on ball for now, hopefully he can transition as that on ball role was what got him drafted.

gringo2011 · Sep 12, 2021

Mangus said:
None of Bytel Byrnes or Connolly are probably in our best 22 as of today all no doubt got games this year due to the injuries of others and as an investment in their development. All need a couple more proper pre-seasons to be genuine AFL players, by all accounts, we stuffed our pre-season last year and to me Bytel in particular stagnated he desperately needs to develop his running to be able to be a contributor outside of the stoppages. Currently he is invisible in general play, a big preseason is required as he needs to develop an engine.

It is a bit of a theme with all our kids Clark and Coffield included. Some players have the capacity for the hard work required some think just doing the bare minimum is enough. Steele has turned himself into a machine by hard work hopefully that is the standard the young guys are aspiring to now. Might pay to train Bytel up to play the run with role like we did with Steele initially otherwise it will be pretty tough if he needs to hold his place purely on his own production. Give him a role with clear instructions something to train for and see if he can build his game from there. Of course this is only feasible if he can build his running capacity to go with the opposition mids.

For me when projecting the future for the three Bytel has the hardest path to lock in a regular spot but the upside if he makes it is the most impactful to the teams improvement.

Connoly is the one I enjoy watching the most he plays footy with dare and excitement I think he is more like Hill than Sinclair but like both of them he will need to become a running machine to make the most of his talent. He is not a mid he is a wing HBF and specifically an attacking one. It took Sinclair years to find the right role and the physical maturity to be a consistently good player. Early days he was undersized and one of the worlds worst tacklers and didn't have a defined role now he is a complete player and the key outlet from Half Back. Hopefully, the coaches work out a way to make the most of Leo's strengths with the ball in hand while they build the physical skills needed to defend and compete.

I see most others really rate Byrnes he is the one I have the hardest time working out what his ultimate role will be. I haven't seen him play much if any genuine mid so not sure if he has that scope at AFL level. I haven't particularly noticed him win contested ball or be the first receive and break from stoppage. He seems generally good at most aspects of the game, relatively quick but I haven't seen the standout skillset. At the moment he is spending time on the Flanks I don't see that as a long term role for him but have not seen him prove he can play on ball as well. He is not a huge guy and I expect that is what is preventing them playing him on ball for now, hopefully he can transition as that on ball role was what got him drafted.

Byrnes was a Jack Steven clone at Sandy Dragons, a zippy mid who could slot a running goal. I think that's his long term projection. I'd play Bytel at Sandy until his form is breaking down the door. Dunstan played his best footy after being starved of opportunity. Clark and Coff look like they expect to be gifted games.

Ducky Tie · Sep 12, 2021

Mangus said:
I see most others really rate Byrnes he is the one I have the hardest time working out what his ultimate role will be. I haven't seen him play much if any genuine mid so not sure if he has that scope at AFL level. I haven't particularly noticed him win contested ball or be the first receive and break from stoppage. He seems generally good at most aspects of the game, relatively quick but I haven't seen the standout skillset. At the moment he is spending time on the Flanks I don't see that as a long term role for him but have not seen him prove he can play on ball as well. He is not a huge guy and I expect that is what is preventing them playing him on ball for now, hopefully he can transition as that on ball role was what got him drafted.

I think he's a genuine midfielder eventually. His versatility at this stage is really useful as it gives him different ways of holding a spot. He's looked solid as a half forward and had stints on the wing. Long term though he looks like a genuine midfielder, I think. His lack of contested ball to this point is more of reflection of the role he's playing than his ability. In his draft his at Sandringam, he got 25 touches a week - 12 contested. That kind of ratio suggests he'll have no issues finding the right balance between inside/outside. He's got some zip, kicks it well and I think his accumulation will increase the more midfield time he gets. He really only had two games this year where he got more than one or two centre bounces. He got 20 & 21 in those two games where he did get some more midfield time. He's one I'd have in the starting 22 next year. He can cover different positions and he's a nice conduit between midfield and forward.

Joffaboy · Sep 12, 2021

Browny2Carlisle said:
I don’t know how others don’t see it but to me Jack Bytel looks so much like another young Jack who went on to become one of the best kids in the game and captain St kilda

Would like them to use Bytel as they did a young Jack Steele. as a tagger on their best mid. Richo cops it from this forum but that development of Steele has made him what he is today. Kudos to Richo for that credit where it is due.

Bytel could do much worse to be led to the ball by the likes of Oliver, McRea, Merrett, Dangerfield, Fyfe etc.

Ephemeral Hope · Sep 12, 2021

Ducky Tie said:
I think he's a genuine midfielder eventually. His versatility at this stage is really useful as it gives him different ways of holding a spot. He's looked solid as a half forward and had stints on the wing. Long term though he looks like a genuine midfielder, I think. His lack of contested ball to this point is more of reflection of the role he's playing than his ability. In his draft his at Sandringam, he got 25 touches a week - 12 contested. That kind of ratio suggests he'll have no issues finding the right balance between inside/outside. He's got some zip, kicks it well and I think his accumulation will increase the more midfield time he gets. He really only had two games this year where he got more than one or two centre bounces. He got 20 & 21 in those two games where he did get some more midfield time. He's one I'd have in the starting 22 next year. He can cover different positions and he's a nice conduit between midfield and forward.

The only issue being is we are about to be bringing in 3 genuine midfield prospects, one of whom will be a top 10 pick. All three of them expecting to compete for Byrnes’ spot. Eventually might come too late for a value pick midfielder when there’s ready to go top midfield prospects coming through

ScrappyDo · Sep 12, 2021

triggering bro said:
I didn’t read joffas review however I’m aware of his injuries.

Round 1 next year he’ll be 22. Needs to be aiming for regular senior footy & find it 20+ times.

Despite reading fans stating that before injuries he was tracking along with Walsh & Smith as one of the best mids of his draft class I haven’t seen it yet.

Maybe the recruiters knew something hence why he went pick 40? Plenty of injured juniors still go high so I don’t think we can use that excuse in isolation.

Walsh and Smith had their running game down pat which is obviously what's valued these days.
IIRC as our pick approached and he was still on the board we tried to trade up but noone was buying. Luckily he fell to us anyway, Libba and the commentary all said they couldn't believe he slid so far.
I agree he needs to get a wriggle on but he'll have his chance next year and we'll see where he sits after that.

ScrappyDo · Sep 12, 2021

Joffaboy said:
Would like them to use Bytel as they did a young Jack Steele. as a tagger on their best mid. Richo cops it from this forum but that development of Steele has made him what he is today. Kudos to Richo for that credit where it is due.

Bytel could do much worse to be led to the ball by the likes of Oliver, McRea, Merrett, Dangerfield, Fyfe etc.

That's exactly what they've been doing.

BrutThough · Sep 12, 2021

ScrappyDo said:
Walsh and Smith had their running game down pat which is obviously what's valued these days.
IIRC as our pick approached and he was still on the board we tried to trade up but noone was buying. Luckily he fell to us anyway, Libba and the commentary all said they couldn't believe he slid so far.
I agree he needs to get a wriggle on but he'll have his chance next year and we'll see where he sits after that.

Not sure how true it is, but the rumour was Essendon were very keen on him but Dodoro decided to be clever and bid on Mosquito earlier than expected but Hawthorn didn't match it so they missed out and we took Bytel 2 picks later.

triggering bro · Sep 12, 2021

ScrappyDo said:
Walsh and Smith had their running game down pat which is obviously what's valued these days.
IIRC as our pick approached and he was still on the board we tried to trade up but noone was buying. Luckily he fell to us anyway, Libba and the commentary all said they couldn't believe he slid so far.
I agree he needs to get a wriggle on but he'll have his chance next year and we'll see where he sits after that.

Despite injuries & covid interruptions he’s been in a pro environment & spent three years under the iron to build up his body. He needs to be aiming for regular senior footy next year. I mean how long do you give them? I think by the fourth year as a midfielder (rucks/talls different) expectations start to rise.

Joffaboy · Sep 12, 2021

gringo2011 said:
Yeah, I've seen Lonie look like a mini Joel Selwood at Sandy. Guys like Freezer and Templeton look better than most AFL listed players in the VFL. It's a poor guide to form. He's had shithouse development with Covid and medisub duties stopping his progression. He's played a handful of games at any level since he was 16.

Same game Lonie kicked four or five without breaking a sweat.

Can only report what I saw. SASaints was also there that day. I have watched plenty of VFL with the likes of Dnstan, Acres, Hanners a couple of times and a few other seniors playing mid for the Saints.

Have been going to VFL for many years. Have never seen a mid play like he did that day. he was actually better after Hanners went off for the last qtr. Does it mean he is the next Bont? Hardly. All I am doing is reporting from my limited knowledge as a football supporter and the impression made on me by his performance.
I don't know if he will convert it to seniors performances, as a few have pointed out, he hasn't as yet, and even with 8 tackles and 2 goals, 17 possessions for an inside mid wont cut it, even though I thought his game was pretty good for a young bloke.

With Dunstan not there next year, it is his opportunity to take. Up to him, I think he has what it takes and I am sure everyone here will want him to make it.

It's not an ego thing, I didn't spot him, just saw him play this year. The kid has had less than 20 games, lets see him after a few more.

Saint_Dos · Sep 12, 2021

Ephemeral Hope said:
The only issue being is we are about to be bringing in 3 genuine midfield prospects, one of whom will be a top 10 pick. All three of them expecting to compete for Byrnes’ spot. Eventually might come too late for a value pick midfielder when there’s ready to go top midfield prospects coming through

Not convinced they compete for just Byrnes spot.
From this season, The Dunstan/Bytel/Hanners role is up for grabs
Kent, DMac/Leo, Coff & Seb's roles are also up for grabs

We have Gresh, Clark and Billings to come back in but that still leaves some space for them to move into.

Combine that with the fact most draftees arent ready to go until mid season means there is plenty of time for him to cement his spot

Ducky Tie · Sep 12, 2021

Ephemeral Hope said:
The only issue being is we are about to be bringing in 3 genuine midfield prospects, one of whom will be a top 10 pick. All three of them expecting to compete for Byrnes’ spot. Eventually might come too late for a value pick midfielder when there’s ready to go top midfield prospects coming through

If he's good enough, he'll make it. If he isn't, he won't. I expect he'll be in front of our draftees this year in terms of selection next year. If he's not then that's a good problem to have. Plenty of dominant teams over the last decade or so have shown the asset of having lots of midfielders who can push forward. Dogs roll Bont, Macrae, Liberatore, Dunkley, Treloar and Smith through their midfield. Bulldogs did it with Dusty, Cotchin, Edwards, Prestia, Lambert, Bolton, Graham etc. Peak Geelong had Ablett, Bartel, Selwood, Corey, Kelly, Ling, Chapman, Johnson etc.

Having plenty of midfielders is good if there are several that can rotate forward. It's what limits Bytel at this stage. Byrnes to me looks like a really useful asset to a midfield with how he uses the ball and the speed he has.

Joffaboy · Sep 12, 2021

ScrappyDo said:
That's exactly what they've been doing.

As I said, I am just a mug punter

. Gimme a break Scrappy, hard to tell on TV. I can read the game and who is on who much better live.

Joffaboy · Sep 12, 2021

triggering bro said:
Despite injuries & covid interruptions he’s been in a pro environment & spent three years under the iron to build up his body. He needs to be aiming for regular senior footy next year. I mean how long do you give them? I think by the fourth year as a midfielder (rucks/talls different) expectations start to rise.

Rehab the whole of 2019
Covid 2020 where he played a few games - no VFL
Covid 2021, played a few games - about 5 VFL games

Coming into his fourth season, but really it is 2.5 seasons fit. How long did it take Dunstan and DMAC to come good? At 21 Steele was not much better than Bytel.

Anyway isn't it refreshing to be talking about the likes of Bytel, Byrnes, Connelly, and Sharman instead of bemoaning that we don't have any kids and we don't really need to talk about our established players.

It is a really good chat.

Ephemeral Hope · Sep 12, 2021

Saint_Dos said:
Not convinced they compete for just Byrnes spot.
From this season, The Dunstan/Bytel/Hanners role is up for grabs
Kent, DMac/Leo, Coff & Seb's roles are also up for grabs

We have Gresh, Clark and Billings to come back in but that still leaves some space for them to move into.

Combine that with the fact most draftees arent ready to go until mid season means there is plenty of time for him to cement his spot

That is true but also consider that after being in the system for a couple years you’re not too exciting for supporters anymore and if the club’s in trouble it’s more exciting to break in case of emergency and debut a draftee

gringo2011 · Sep 12, 2021

Ducky Tie said:
I think he's a genuine midfielder eventually. His versatility at this stage is really useful as it gives him different ways of holding a spot. He's looked solid as a half forward and had stints on the wing. Long term though he looks like a genuine midfielder, I think. His lack of contested ball to this point is more of reflection of the role he's playing than his ability. In his draft his at Sandringam, he got 25 touches a week - 12 contested. That kind of ratio suggests he'll have no issues finding the right balance between inside/outside. He's got some zip, kicks it well and I think his accumulation will increase the more midfield time he gets. He really only had two games this year where he got more than one or two centre bounces. He got 20 & 21 in those two games where he did get some more midfield time. He's one I'd have in the starting 22 next year. He can cover different positions and he's a nice conduit between midfield and forward.

His kicking was a bit iffy as a junior, I think kicking on the run makes it messy, he's good currently because he's generally disposing on the outside and standing still. I'm not sure the kicking is going to stand up when he returns to the middle. That said Treloar can't kick well but he make shit happen. I'm not as obsessed with clean disposal as some. Melbourne aren't super clean but the run and carry like a ferret on amphetamines. Geelong play accurate and clean, so do West Coast. Both have struggled recently as sides emulate Richmond moving the ball too quick for sides to set up.

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