List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part II

George · Aug 24, 2021

Continued in Part III

List Mgmt. - 2021 Trade Thread - Part III

We are onto Part 3.

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Delisted;
Oscar Clavarino
Sam Alabakis

Traded;
-

Retired;
Jake Carlisle
Dylan Roberton
Shaun McKernan
James Frawley

Current Players Out of Contract;
7. Luke Dunstan (RFA) - Link
13. Jack Lonie - Link
25. Dean Kent - Link
39. Darragh Joyce - Link
41. Paul Hunter - Link

To see the full list (it gets updated regularly) visit this thread;

List & Contract Status

SENIOR LIST 1. Jack Higgins 2. Marcus Windhager 3. Zak Jones 4. Lance Collard 5. Brad Crouch 6. Sebastian Ross 7. Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera 8. Bradley Hill 9. Jack Steele 10. Mitchito Owens 11. Hunter Clark 12. Max King 13. Ryan Byrnes 14. Liam Stocker 15. Paddy Dow 16. Daniel Butler 17. Isaac...

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Restricted and Unrestricted Free Agency Window
Friday October 1 – Friday October 8

Trade Period
Players: Monday October 4 – Wednesday October 13
Picks: Monday October 4 – tbc (approx. Friday November 19)

List Lodgement 1
tbc (approx. Thursday October 28)

Delisted Free Agency Window 1
tbc (approx. Friday October 29 - Monday November 8)

List Lodgement 2 (Final date for primary list delistings)
tbc (approx. Tuesday November 9)

Delisted Free Agency Window 2
tbc (approx. Wednesday November 10 - Friday November 19)

BrutThough · Sep 27, 2021

Grav said:
IMO height & weight equals strength & when in a tight situation, strength is what helps gets you of it.

A player can be as big and strong as you want but if they lack skill or footy smarts, they will never be a match winner.

You cant just shove someone into the midfield because they are tall and expect them to be good because they are the height of Bont or Petrecca. Coffield's natural skill set lends him to being an intercept defender. We've seen them try to make Battle a midfielder because of this obsession with tall wings yet he sucks at it because it doesn't match what he is good at.

gringo2011 · Sep 27, 2021

sunny3193 said:
They’ll be scaring 17 teams you know.
SA will be after Lukosius for a start.

I know, they will be chasing the foxes from the chook shed for the next few years. It will be a shame if they get broken up, I think they've put together a great stockpile of talent this time. Hopefully they show a bit next year and players buy in. I reckon they are 2 years off finals but the talent they have should be able to compete with anyone when they do. I think if Witts had stayed fit they might have shown a lot more this season.

True Believer · Sep 27, 2021

blktreacle said:
Are there actually any new rumours
Or are you all bickering about what the saints need like teenage girls bickering over the hottest guy in school?

On SM-A526B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Ummm, the second one I think............

bird_man · Sep 27, 2021

Joffaboy said:
Has not got a small tank. Has played very few games in 2 years. His 4th qtrs in the VFL, have been his best, one I saw looked like he was playing against under 16's.

VFL is a different game, but looking at the way he would often drop off in 2nd half at AFL level tell me he's still got a lot of work to do on his tank.

It's no surprise considering how little footy he's played though.

It's a shame the VFL season was cut short, 8 or so games playing full games in the middle at VFL level would have been great for him.

gringo2011 · Sep 27, 2021

HunterClarksHeadband said:
We desperately need my boy Hunts to just come out of nowhere next year. If Bytel, Clark & Coff can pull something out of their ass and just all of a sudden be some of the best players in the team a lot will change for us. A lot of the 2017 kids need to just take the next step & if they can do it, thats where our main source of growth will come from tbh.

We're officially the biggest losers in the comp now that the Dees have broken their drought. We quite simply have to get it done with this crop, Jack Steele needs to be the one holding up that cup.

Those guys are definitely in the age and experience band that steps up. Gresham is 2 season behind so still has that ability to step up too. The only issue is that if he breaks down again he's almost done. You have to a be a super player to last 3 years on a list with the majority of it lost to injury and get re-contracted.

I agree with who ever it was that all the adoration these guys get before they have achieved anything has made them lazy cruisers. They already have their heads on the membership cards and up on walls. Coff and Clark are from the same draft as Naughton, Balta, Oscar Allen, Tom Mc Cartin, Petty, Worpol, Grian Meyers, Jayden Stephenson and Andrew Brayshaw. Tim Kelly, Liam Ryan and Fritsch all older players taken in that draft too.

They are right on that cusp of making a huge leap or becoming another couple of additions to our GOP pile. Both have the talent but it's time for us to stop blowing smoke up their arses and send them off to the reserves if they don't work hard enough. Put their posters up in the toilet if they want to have a foot in each camp.

gringo2011 · Sep 27, 2021

JediSaint said:
I thought we are looking a Kreugar from he Cats

It sounds like he's going to the Pies as a forward.

g_TRAIN · Sep 27, 2021

Saintbloke said:
Coff is not a midfielder at AFL level- so forget it, and nor is Clark. We need to recruit midfield quality.

Probably agree on Coff but it's too early to make that call on Clark.

Petrecca is a perfect example, was below Clark's level until 2020 before he stepped up big time.

Before that, he was just a talented HFF that would never quite put it all together. Similar to Clark only he's been more HBF

Rors · Sep 27, 2021

bird_man said:
Steele, Miller and Merrett all in the AA side this year and taken between 15-30

I think if there was ever a draft to get a gun mid at 11 this is the one.

A draft full of midfielders with the possibility of Vic kids sliding due to lack of footy.

Steele is an interesting one.

Im of the firm belief that he is the player he now because of his early development at GWS under the guidance of Leon Cameron, Lenny Hayes & Luke Power, and on-field mentoring from Cal Ward & Ryan Griffen through the Giants academy & his first 2 years

Who’ve our young mids been coached by & learnt from? Richo & Kingsley as coaches, with Ross, Stuv on field. Eeewwww

gringo2011 · Sep 27, 2021

bird_man said:
What makes you say Clark isn't?

Well he's not yet. He could be but he's getting let off because he showed some promise. It's the same as we always do. Bank a guy who's done **** all. He's lazy and one way, he won't or can't chase and he doesn't defend when he doesn't have the ball. I love Hunter but he's not working hard enough. He's in the top 5 player at the club on talent but he cruises. He looks really slow but that could be fitness. I have watched him closely live and players can get away from him so easily he looks noticeably slow. There is a reason that despite getting good numbers he's not a first picked mid every week. It's up to him now, step up or get pushed out to depth.

Minga · Sep 27, 2021

Trade Radio on Ben King:

Rors · Sep 27, 2021

gringo2011 said:
Well he's not yet. He could be but he's getting let off because he showed some promise. It's the same as we always do. Bank a guy who's done fu** all. He's lazy and one way, he won't or can't chase and he doesn't defend when he doesn't have the ball. I love Hunter but he's not working hard enough. He's in the top 5 player at the club on talent but he cruises. He looks really slow but that could be fitness. I have watched him closely live and players can get away from him so easily he looks noticeably slow. There is a reason that despite getting good numbers he's not a first picked mid every week. It's up to him now, step up or get pushed out to depth.

It’s not like there hasn’t been a spot in the midfield up for grabs for a young up & comer of late either. Midfield development at StKilda has been beyond abysmal.

Look at our current ‘best’ starting midfield

Ryder Steele Crouch Jones

All recycled blokes & haven’t even been able to get Hannebery on the park either which would make 5. The midfield has been so ordinary, even a guy like Dunstan who’s been on the outer for years was able to step straight in & make an impact. Gresham’s basically been injured for 2 years, so going forward I would hope that he could rotate in & out of the mids with Higgins.

Billings won’t help the midfield either - he’s a wing/half forward - we have to accept that now, he’s not going to be a Chad Wingard.

Clark is the one who needs to work out what he wants to be. Needs to work harder on strength & fitness to be more consistent to be that Pendlebury-type class mid

saint_ · Sep 27, 2021

Rors said:
It’s not like there hasn’t been a spot in the midfield up for grabs for a young up & comer of late either. Midfield development at StKilda has been beyond abysmal.

Look at our current ‘best’ starting midfield

Ryder Steele Crouch Jones

All recycled blokes & haven’t even been able to get Hannebery on the park either which would make 5. The midfield has been so ordinary, even a guy like Dunstan who’s been on the outer for years was able to step straight in & make an impact. Gresham’s basically been injured for 2 years, so going forward I would hope that he could rotate in & out of the mids with Higgins.

Billings won’t help the midfield either - he’s a wing/half forward - we have to accept that now, he’s not going to be a Chad Wingard.

Clark is the one who needs to work out what he wants to be. Needs to work harder on strength & fitness to be more consistent to be that Pendlebury-type class mid

Clark and Coffield should look to Sam Walsh for inspiration. Sam is a year younger than those two, with a year less inexperience in the AFL system, but already has an All-Australian under his belt by working incredibly hard on his game and fitness. Just a freak.

bird_man · Sep 27, 2021

gringo2011 said:
Well he's not yet. He could be but he's getting let off because he showed some promise. It's the same as we always do. Bank a guy who's done fu** all. He's lazy and one way, he won't or can't chase and he doesn't defend when he doesn't have the ball. I love Hunter but he's not working hard enough. He's in the top 5 player at the club on talent but he cruises. He looks really slow but that could be fitness. I have watched him closely live and players can get away from him so easily he looks noticeably slow. There is a reason that despite getting good numbers he's not a first picked mid every week. It's up to him now, step up or get pushed out to depth.

I'm not banking on anyone becoming anything.

The discussion was around who COULD become quality mids, not who is.

Chef Ratts · Sep 27, 2021

blktreacle said:
Are there actually any new rumours
Or are you all bickering about what the saints need like teenage girls bickering over the hottest guy in school?

On SM-A526B using BigFooty.com mobile app

The latter...

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Joffaboy · Sep 27, 2021

bird_man said:
VFL is a different game, but looking at the way he would often drop off in 2nd half at AFL level tell me he's still got a lot of work to do on his tank.

It's no surprise considering how little footy he's played though.

It's a shame the VFL season was cut short, 8 or so games playing full games in the middle at VFL level would have been great for him.

i always caveat my Bytel discussions with that very fact. The way he ran out games in the VFl would lead me to believe he has got a good tank, the way others swa him at AFL not running out a game would suggest that the tank while there, is not full. A good injury free preseason after three years of little football (one year out in 2019 due to back) should fill it up.

He has no excuse to be fit as a Mallee Bull. He has been given the opportunity to take an inside midfield position or more specifically Crouch back into the guts and him of a Half Forward running through the middle.

Watching the second half of the first round WCE game, his disposal was amazingly good. Has an absolute bullet like foot.

gringo2011 · Sep 27, 2021

Joffaboy said:
i always caveat my Bytel discussions with that very fact. The way he ran out games in the VFl would lead me to believe he has got a good tank, the way others swa him at AFL not running out a game would suggest that the tank while there, is not full. A good injury free preseason after three years of little football (one year out in 2019 due to back) should fill it up.

He has no excuse to be fit as a Mallee Bull. He has been given the opportunity to take an inside midfield position or more specifically Crouch back into the guts and him of a Half Forward running through the middle.

Watching the second half of the first round WCE game, his disposal was amazingly good. Has an absolute bullet like foot.

He's the opposite of Dunstan, his disposal is Steele quality but his production is low in the seniors. He's got the ability to step up but he's still very inexperienced. He looks gym fit not park fit. Steele needs to get him out running laps.

ScrappyDo · Sep 27, 2021

Jade Buddha said:
I think Bytel could be pivotal next year. He should get a run at it with Dunstan gone.
There was something about his last game that looked angry or agitated. Think he might have a point to prove. His skills in close are very good, first few games showed that.

Jay Beast said:
Hope we see a more expansive game from him, hurting the opposition by foot and getting on the scoreboard

Saint believer said:
Being in Hobart I got to see the Saints v freo game also saw Nth geelong Briscoe and gcs.

I was really interested to see a few of the Saints in person.

Lots looked good Sharman mark right in front was very impressive.
The one I was disappointed in was bytel. While he got two goals he just looked too slow and a small tank compared to others. This maybe because of the limited game time towards the end of the season but I expect he has a lot of work to do in his tank and his speed to respond while in the middle.
Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

The kid is an Alpha midfielder but may end up more like Cunnington than Fyfe.
One thing is for certain, and that's that our list team are backing him in preference of Dunny so we all may as well get on board.

Personally l just don't think running with the likes of Mundy is an easy task on the best of days, and we'll see better when he's let off the chain.
Ratts says it's for his development and fair enough, it worked ok for Steele, though only 2 seasons ago he was copping criticisms for being limited, C-B grade, etc.
Kids take time. Trac took 6 years after all.

Crusty Undies · Sep 27, 2021

Grav said:
Looking at the so called Big Three match winners in the AFL, was interested in their size & noticed all over 90kg of muscle, compared to our midfielders.
Will note Jack Steele is there at 187cm 91kg

Match Winners

Petracca 186cm 97 kg
Bontempelli 193cm 93kg
Martin 187cm. 91 kg

Who we are pinning our hopes on.

Clark. 186cm. 83kg
Bytel 189cm. 84kg
Gresham. 177cm. 80kg
Byrnes. 181 cm. 83kg

Players that possibly could step up & size is there.

Coffield. 191cm. 88kg
Battle. 193cm. 92kg

Do the coaches get in Coffs & Battles ear & entice them to be the next match winner of the comp, or do we draft someone & wait another couple of years for them to develop? I hope it’s the former as time goes by so slowly.

Gary Ablett Jr. is 182cms and never more than 85kgs in a season. He's the best player in AFL history and it's not even close. Height and weight are nice but frankly; skill, game sense and resilience are all far more important and they're 3 traits that GAJ had in spades more than any of the players you've listed here. I understand why we all envision this idea of a big bodied mid and they're definitely the flavour of the late 2010s with Fyfe, Cripps, Bont etc. But I think we're just getting a touch to obsessed with their physical characteristics and forgetting that all those players are also really flipping good footballers regardless of their size too.

Diehard Saint · Sep 27, 2021

Joffaboy said:
i always caveat my Bytel discussions with that very fact. The way he ran out games in the VFl would lead me to believe he has got a good tank, the way others swa him at AFL not running out a game would suggest that the tank while there, is not full. A good injury free preseason after three years of little football (one year out in 2019 due to back) should fill it up.

He has no excuse to be fit as a Mallee Bull. He has been given the opportunity to take an inside midfield position or more specifically Crouch back into the guts and him of a Half Forward running through the middle.

Watching the second half of the first round WCE game, his disposal was amazingly good. Has an absolute bullet like foot.

Bullish on both him and Byrnes. Hope Steele, Crouch and those guys are getting around them a lot. (Just look what Steele did for Brucey’s fitness).

Joffaboy · Sep 27, 2021

gringo2011 said:
He's the opposite of Dunstan, his disposal is Steele quality but his production is low in the seniors. He's got the ability to step up but he's still very inexperienced. He looks gym fit not park fit. Steele needs to get him out running laps.

This is it exactly. How much more of an oppurtunity can a young bloke get. the club is copping critisism for moving on a player whom basically Bytel will step in for.
I know it is a bit more complicated than that. Bytel is a bit more mobile than Dunstan and should be able to play the Crouch role that he played in the latter half as a HF going through the guts. he can also go forward. But basically he is a mid predominately.

I don't think this is a pivotal year for him but he has no excuse not to be the fittest he has ever been and string together a large number of consistent games a where he is getting 20 plus possessions. We need to see the development onver2022.

botts · Sep 27, 2021

gringo2011 said:
He's the opposite of Dunstan, his disposal is Steele quality but his production is low in the seniors. He's got the ability to step up but he's still very inexperienced. He looks gym fit not park fit. Steele needs to get him out running laps.

Bytels numbers are pretty bog standard for effectively a second year player. I think someone on the forum put up his numbers against lennys and they were almost the same. That’s not a knock on him. I think he is actually tracking really well. Big preseason and he should start round one in the middle

CursingFijian · Sep 27, 2021

Moral Decay said:
this is the bit that interests me, both Oliver and Petracca have looked at their weaknesses and done the hard yards to change them, whether it be fitness, skills, strength or game approach.
Will Gresh, Coff and Hunter do the hard work to get the best out of themselves, time alone will tell, we do have the examples of Sinclair, DMac and Steele but football is littered with unrealized talent.

The transformation with Petracca and Oliver seems more mental than physical. I remember those two strutting around high fiving each other and carrying on like they were the beez kneez while the Demons continued to lose every week.

Somewhere along the line they have both recognised that they were NOT at their very best or at the level of other uber elite AFL players.

They both seem to have dialled back their cockiness and have applied themselves to being not just great athletes and players but great team players. It actually is good to see. I have no idea who you credit for driving that transformation, but hats off to both players for being the change.

Bill Mohr · Sep 27, 2021

BrutThough said:
They had barely any injuries this year to have to bring in the next man up.

It's easy to have that system when it is never tested.

Just cant see the point of your 2 posts frankly- making something out of nothing ( it never happened) and implying they had it easy to justify how average the dees would be if their football system had broken down. Get over it it. They won the flag by 12 goals. We never made the 8.

Bill Mohr · Sep 27, 2021

CursingFijian said:
The transformation with Petracca and Oliver seems more mental than physical. I remember those two strutting around high giving each other and carrying on like they were the beez kneez while the Demons continued to lose every week.

Somewhere along the line they have both recognised that they were NOT at their very best or at the level of other uber elite AFL players.

They both seem to have dialled back their cockiness and have applied themselves to being not just great athletes and players but great team players. It actually is good to see. I have no idea who you credit for driving that transformation, but hats off to both players for being the change.

Yes, great to watch those guys. They are chasing the pill non -stop

Bill Mohr · Sep 27, 2021

JediSaint said:
I thought we are looking a Kreugar from he Cats

Gone to the Pies

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