Analysis 2021 trade thread

[mpal6]

Cant agree more his injury was worse than Cams, and my basketball following mates reckon it takes the tall lanky types longer to recover from acl injuries. Combine that with the athletic nature of the way he played, reckon we need to steel ourselves for a season without him.

Makes sense us trying to get a first ruck and sort of showed interest in Briggs. Will release Oscar forward and BigO next to Daniher/McStay would be pretty formidable.

We should still keep trying Payne/Andrews as swingmen next year so we have depth in this tall forward area. Otherwise it'll be again back to one injury to another tall forward and the cupboard is bare. Almost thinking McStay can go into this swingmen rotation so we have more magnets that can switch between forward and defense arcs.

 

[jackess]

Makes sense us trying to get a first ruck and sort of showed interest in Briggs. Will release Oscar forward and BigO next to Daniher/McStay would be pretty formidable.

We should still keep trying Payne/Andrews as swingmen next year so we have depth in this tall forward area. Otherwise it'll be again back to one injury to another tall forward and the cupboard is bare. Almost thinking McStay can go into this swingmen rotation so we have more magnets that can switch between forward and defense arcs.

Until the ball hits ground level and then we're screwed

 

[mpal6]

Until the ball hits ground level and then we're screwed

That's why we have Oscar there, he'll just mark it. It'll never hit the ground !!

On a pragmatic note, we're wedded to that three tall forward line setup and will see it through for at least 1 more year. Hence take the good with the bad.

 

[BangyBangy]

So, now that Birch has retired, who do you think the new whipping boy will be in 2022?

 

[jackess]

That's why we have Oscar there, he'll just mark it. It'll never hit the ground !!

On a pragmatic note, we're wedded to that three tall forward line setup and will see it through for at least 1 more year. Hence take the good with the bad.

Works ok because McStay is good at ground level and Hipwood can run all day. Not sure playing Oscar down there will help much

 

[mebevan]

I think we need to address 2 areas and exploit another.

1. Midfield. Not sure if we can fill this in with other listed players or need to look outside. The way footy is going is you need fast hard youth that can run hard and win contested footy then kick quick balls into the forward line. I think we still need that strong body on the inside. I think this is where the CEY thinking was but i think we need more speed. This may have been where the thinking was for putting Rayner closer to the ball before he got hurt. Perhaps we could look at a combo of Rayner, Matho, Robbo, Dev to fill this but we need a more hardened speed player on the inside.

2. BigO backup. I like Fullarton and I think he is getting better with each game. We need to harden him up in preseason. Get some skill coaches in to get him using his body more. Get some psych coaches getting his head in a more aggressive frame. He looks too nice to me. Needs some mongrel. Would look to get another more experience ruck option in just to cover for 1 year.

3. Play 'Fagans Paddock'. With a fit forward line we have some real power there. We need to send daniher and mcStay high up the half forward flank. Joe hopefully taking marks close to the 50 that he can slot and mcStay quickly moving the ball on. We then need to slingshot it in quickly to charlie and mcCarthy who should have a more open 50. Linc is easily the best set shot so try to hit him up on the chest and charlie when we need to get ball to ground and he can chase it down. To be fair we have played this strategy a bit. Will give the mids a good marking outlet to the wings.

 

[mpal6]

So, now that Birch has retired, who do you think the new whipping boy will be in 2022?

Midfielders that won't run both ways consistently and help defend the opposition spread - Bailey, Neale etc. We can beat all teams up to bottom half of top 8 using our scoring power, but to beat the top end we need effort across the board.

 

[mpal6]

Works ok because McStay is good at ground level and Hipwood can run all day. Not sure playing Oscar down there will help much

Daniher was at his best when he led up the ground and was able to launch it from 60-70m. BigO will be easily a better mark at goal square than Fullarton. More importantly it gives Charlie the space within F50 at ground level.

Daniher may not have the running power of Hipwood but I feel this structure can work too.

 

[jackess]

Daniher was at his best when he led up the ground and was able to launch it from 60-70m. BigO will be easily a better mark at goal square than Fullarton. More importantly it gives Charlie the space within F50 at ground level.

Daniher may not have the running power of Hipwood but I feel this structure can work too.

Oscar being in the goal square won't give Charlie more space

 

[jackess]

I don't think we need a second ruck.

1. Our current midfield setup gets the ball forward often enough to give us an opportunity to kick goals. I don't think playing Fullarton or Joe or even McStay hurts our midfield that much.

2. Our forwardline is the best in the AFL. I don't want to throw off the structure by playing an immobile ruckman down there.

 

[mattsmob]

If Fullarton is only rucking 10-15% of gametime is it really that detrimental? If Fullarton is replaced by some of the veteran names getting thrown around we may have a marginally better ruck for a small percent of gametime but for the rest of the game we’re at a disadvantage around the ground. And if we’re bringing someone in specifically to crash a pack then we’re setting the bar very low.

 

[chopperduck]

Probably worth remembering that Starcevich still only averaged 12 disposals a game for us this year. He is not a conduit out of defense and whilst he might improve that side of his game he still remains primarily a defense first and second player. I want to improve the defensive side of our defensive unit but I think we need to consider the offensive side as well.

Agree with this. I am wondering though with Birch now gone on whether we can turn his spot into a more offensive type defender position.

 

[JasRulz63]

So, now that Birch has retired, who do you think the new whipping boy will be in 2022?

I suspect it'll be back to Lester.

 

[Dalions]

I suspect it'll be back to Lester.

NNOOOO!!!

 

[bungalow_bill]

I suspect it'll be back to Lester.

If Fullarton plays it will be him for sure,at least for a few on here

 

[morsie]

not a short term fix need a mature backup ruck
Need someone more mature then Fullarton
We not playing Archie in front of Fullarton so you get both needs in one player

Fullarton is a conundrum.He is a talent but is a talent in search of a position.I would try and turn him into a Tom Lynch (Adelaide model ) running cetre half forward.I dont think he is ever going to be adequate as a ruckman unless he can play like Luke Jackson.

 

[chopperduck]

Bringing in a player as injury cover for 1 year is about the dumbest list management decision I've heard. It makes, 0 sense. You would need someone good enough to make it worth while, but it is just an injury cover so you don't want to be paying them much. Also the person needs to be happy to move interstate for a 12 month contract. Better off just making do with what we have, put more development time into Fullerton.

 

[chopperduck]

Starc moving to midfield... why. Why would you take someone who is an AA quality small defender and try put them into a position they are entirely unproven in. Whoever replaces him in the backing probably does a worse job, and he probably does a worse job in the middle then if you just went after another actual mid.

Continue to develop his back half game and get him a bit more dangerous with the ball. He doesn't need 25 touches a game. If he averages 12, try push this upto about 15 without losing his defensive output. Imagine being a forward, being shut out of the game and your opponent gets like 15 touches and involved with 3 or 4 scoring chains... that is complete domination.

 

[mebevan]

Bringing in a player as injury cover for 1 year is about the dumbest list management decision I've heard. It makes, 0 sense. You would need someone good enough to make it worth while, but it is just an injury cover so you don't want to be paying them much. Also the person needs to be happy to move interstate for a 12 month contract. Better off just making do with what we have, put more development time into Fullerton.

If Oscar goes down with a season ender in round 1 do you trust playing the entire season inc finals with Fullarton as primary ruck? Seems a bit risky if you want to have a full crack while zork, rich and neale are still around.

 

[BangyBangy]

If Oscar goes down with a season ender in round 1 do you trust playing the entire season inc finals with Fullarton as primary ruck? Seems a bit risky if you want to have a full crack while zork, rich and neale are still around.

This is essentially what has kept Archie on the list for all these seasons.

I have no problem with the club trying to find a solution to our ruck playing structure & stock. I just think it's not as easy or straight forward as a few on here make it out to be.

 

[mpal6]

This is essentially what has kept Archie on the list for all these seasons.

I have no problem with the club trying to find a solution to our ruck playing structure & stock. I just think it's not as easy or straight forward as a few on here make it out to be.

Archie will go this year and we will be left with Oscar, Fullarton, HSmith and Lane. That's poor depth for a potential contender.

I'm firmly in the "we need a second ruck" corner. Let's see what the club does during trade window.

 

[Nuggo]

Perhaps Archie won't be cut until it is clear what is happening and hence it may be some time before all is revealed. Probably the case with a few players on the fringe of being cut.

 

[BangyBangy]

Archie will go this year and we will be left with Oscar, Fullarton, HSmith and Lane. That's poor depth for a potential contender.

I'm firmly in the "we need a second ruck" corner. Let's see what the club does during trade window.

I agree with you, but that's a different position than lets get a mature ruck / big body to take a mark and crash some packs until Hipwood returns which a few on here are proposing.

We're looking for ruck depth. So you're either poaching another clubs ruck depth to do the same role at our club, or you're hoping to grab a player overlooked for the draft that is now showing something in a lower league that no one else has seen, or picking up a retired / delisted player you think still has a few years left even though the club that showed them the door doesn't think so, or taking a kid in the draft & hope he's a freak developer lol.

My best hope I guess is a player who is third banana at their club who has no problem being second banana at the Lions.

 

[Sanchez365]

Daniher was at his best when he led up the ground and was able to launch it from 60-70m. BigO will be easily a better mark at goal square than Fullarton. More importantly it gives Charlie the space within F50 at ground level.

Daniher may not have the running power of Hipwood but I feel this structure can work too.

The other thing I felt Danniher did really well was delivering inside 50 to Charlie when about 60-70 out. He has such a long kick that he can get it in over the back that little bit easier for someone like Cameron to run onto.

Should also be worth noting that Hipwood is pretty quick for his size and Is really a very tall HFF. I think that's the type we should be looking to replace him with, rather then an extra ruck. A stop gap measure of a Gunston would be pretty much straight out of the Fagan playbook, although I hope we develop someone as that third tallish type that can get a bit more defensive pressure going.

 

[twhowler]

The other thing I felt Danniher did really well was delivering inside 50 to Charlie when about 60-70 out. He has such a long kick that he can get it in over the back that little bit easier for someone like Cameron to run onto.

Should also be worth noting that Hipwood is pretty quick for his size and Is really a very tall HFF. I think that's the type we should be looking to replace him with, rather then an extra ruck. A stop gap measure of a Gunston would be pretty much straight out of the Fagan playbook, although I hope we develop someone as that third tallish type that can get a bit more defensive pressure going.

I don't hate the idea of Andrews forward with Payne down back. But Harris and Daniher not much pressure on the opposition once it hits the ground.
Surely the most logical player to try as the third forward, if it's not Fullarton, is Lester? Very small sample size, but I thought he was very good when he came on in the final. Presented well on the lead, kicked a nice goal. And when he went back was rock solid in defence so you could still do the Andrews forward switch (which frankly we should try a lot more, not just in the last quarter of the season). McStay also a good option as back-up ruck if Fullarton doesn't play.