List Mgmt. 2022 List Management and Trading Thread - Part 2

[Scorpus]

Updated list position



And 2024 as it stands

Spoiler

 

[Mostyn]

There is a window for moving players from the senior to rookie list - but it's between the ND and RD, so we can't use it to free up positions that we could use in the ND.

It appears we'll have no choice but to delist, then re-draft in the RD.

What am I missing?

After adding Turner and prior to Brown's retirement, we were 36 & 7 (plus 2 Cat B rookies). That was one too many, obviously.

Brown, Frampton, Rowe, Davis and Turner coming off the list and Rankine on make us 34 and 5.

Pick 23 and Michelanney in the draft makes us 36 and 5, and the upgrade of Strachan and Butts from rookie to main list makes us 38 and 3. We can then take one rookie pick, which could potentially be Turner. 38 & 4, which works.

What have I misunderstood?

 

[DJ75]

Yup, the same team also has turned over ~55% of their list in that time period (and ~75% of their > 50 gamers in 2019).

The lack of moves we made, and how many OOCs next year (seeing a large crop of our 2019/2020/2021 draftees are part of that), is primarily a consequence of how much we've burned our list to a crisp in the previous three years.

Not sure what that has to do with no list spots available in 2022, but 22 players OOC in 2023?
Surely when offering 2 and 3 year deals, they looked at that?

 

[Vader]

What am I missing?

After adding Turner and prior to Brown's retirement, we were 36 & 7 (plus 2 Cat B rookies). That was one too many, obviously.

Brown, Frampton, Rowe, Davis and Turner coming off the list and Rankine on make us 34 and 5.

Pick 23 and Michelanney in the draft makes us 36 and 5, and the upgrade of Strachan and Butts from rookie to main list makes us 38 and 3. We can then take one rookie pick, which could potentially be Turner. 38 & 4, which works.

What have I misunderstood?

We were 37/6/2 at the start of proceedings (after Turner, before Brown), not 36/7. I think you've miscounted the senior list - possibly due to us selecting Nankervis in the PSD, taking us to 37 on the senior list.

Starting Position (as at R23): 37/6/2 (senior/CatA rookie/CatB rookie)
Brown, Frampton, Rowe, Davis, Turner: 34/4/2
Rankine: 35/4/2
Strachan, Butts: 37/2/2

That will leave us with 1x senior, and 2x Cat A rookie list vacancies, once the rookie upgrades are complete.

 

[dylan123]

Given that his retirement is forced by injury, he would be entitled to 100% of his 2023 contract. We're already paying out Brown's negotiated settlement in the 2022 salary cap. We probably don't have room in the 2022 cap for paying out both players.

Am I missing something here? But would we not have rolled over to the 2023 salary cap which Seedsman's contract is due to expire anyways so we'd be paying him in full regardless? So wouldnt the difference be another 100-150k on our cap by selecting an additional player?

 

[Mostyn]

We were 37/6/2 at the start of proceedings (after Turner, before Brown), not 36/7. I think you've miscounted the senior list - possibly due to us selecting Nankervis in the PSD, taking us to 37 on the senior list.

Starting Position (as at R23): 37/6/2 (senior/CatA rookie/CatB rookie)
Brown, Frampton, Rowe, Davis, Turner: 34/4/2
Rankine: 35/4/2
Strachan, Butts: 37/2/2

That will leave us with 1x senior, and 2x Cat A rookie list vacancies, once the rookie upgrades are complete.

Prior to the midseason draft, I understood us to be 36 & 6, and we moved Seedsman to the LTI list and added Turner as a rookie list member.

Sounds like we actually were 37 and 5, then added Turner.

 

[Dangarman]

Can we just put Seedsman back on the LTI list to free up a spot?

 

[Mutineer]

do you happen to remember what he ran at combine?

Not off the top of my head but he certainly wasn't under 3.00 sec which is not elite speed.]

You only need to watch him play to see his game is built on evasiveness and footy smarts not "elite speed".

 

[Vader]

Am I missing something here? But would we not have rolled over to the 2023 salary cap which Seedsman's contract is due to expire anyways so we'd be paying him in full regardless? So wouldnt the difference be another 100-150k on our cap by selecting an additional player?

If we delist Seedsman this year, and don't re-draft, then we need to include his 2023 salary in the 2022 salary cap.
If we delist and re-draft, then it goes in the 2023 salary cap.

We may not have room to include his 2023 salary in the 2022 cap, noting that Brown's payout is already being included in the 2022 cap.

 

[Vader]

Prior to the midseason draft, I understood us to be 36 & 6, and we moved Seedsman to the LTI list and added Turner as a rookie list member.

Sounds like we actually were 37 and 5, then added Turner.

Correct - we were at 37/5 before adding Turner to the rookie list.

 

[Mutineer]

Given this is the list management thread - let me see if I have this right.
We have a decent F/S prospect that we might not be able to select, because we have no space on our list. A team that has finished 14, 15th and 18th the last 3 years.
A team that somehow has 22 players out of contract next year.

List management.....that's the job right?

What utter tripe, if they intend drafting Max they will have a plan.

 

[Vader]

Can we just put Seedsman back on the LTI list to free up a spot?

2 problems with this...

Firstly, we can't put players on the LTI list until after the final List Lodgement date (i.e. after the drafts).
Secondly, even if we could, we would only be able to sign a rookie as his replacement - putting players on the LTI list doesn't create vacancies which can be filled via the ND.

 

[Vader]

What utter tripe, if they intend drafting Max they will have a plan.

I suspect they're working on Plan B right now.

I suspect Plan A was trading Crouch, which would have created the senior list vacancy we need. That didn't happen, so now they need a Plan B.

I suspect Plan B will involve delisting Seedsman, and re-drafting him in the RD. However, Seedsman still sees himself as an AFL player (still in the denial phase of the grieving process), so it's going to take a bit of HR work to convince him to accept that his career is over.

 

[Bearded Clam]

Not sure what everyone is stressing about.

all they will do is move one or two of the following to the rookie list..

mcpherson
crouch
Seedsman

absolutely no one is going to snatch one of these guys out from under us in the process.. no one would want them..

because crouch is shit and has been on the shelf for anyone to purchase for two years running and hasn’t had a taker.. and McPherson and seed are injured and possibly at the end of their careers..

 

[Jarman3]

I suspect they're working on Plan B right now.

I suspect Plan A was trading Crouch, which would have created the senior list vacancy we need. That didn't happen, so now they need a Plan B.

I suspect Plan B will involve delisting Seedsman, and re-drafting him in the RD. However, Seedsman still sees himself as an AFL player (still in the denial phase of the grieving process), so it's going to take a bit of HR work to convince him to accept that his career is over.

Delisting and rookie-ing him doesn't really affect his career in that sense, does it? Ie he still gets paid the same amount, is still eligible for selection etc etc. Didn't DMac basically do the same thing for his last year or two on the list? And he was still playing just about every damn week right up to the end.

 

[Vader]

Delisting and rookie-ing him doesn't really affect his career in that sense, does it? Ie he still gets paid the same amount, is still eligible for selection etc etc. Didn't DMac basically do the same thing for his last year or two on the list? And he was still playing just about every damn week right up to the end.

I think the bigger plan is to put him on the inactive list, so they can sign a replacement via the PSSP or MSD. That DOES impact his ability to play.

 

[DJ75]

What utter tripe, if they intend drafting Max they will have a plan.

Do we? Looking forward to seeing what it is.

Still doesn't explain how we find ourselves in a position where we have so few list spots this year and so many OOC next year. Should have been staggered.

 

[Vader]

Do we? Looking forward to seeing what it is.

Still doesn't explain how we find ourselves in a position where we have so few list spots this year and so many OOC next year. Should have been staggered.

You forget that we've been signing players all year. What we're looking at now is the end result, not the start-of-year list as it is with 2023.

 

[Mutineer]

Do we? Looking forward to seeing what it is.

Still doesn't explain how we find ourselves in a position where we have so few list spots this year and so many OOC next year. Should have been staggered.

Happens when you have so many young/youngish players on the list being assessed...surely you can see that.

 

[arrowman]

I think the bigger plan is to put him on the inactive list, so they can sign a replacement via the PSSP or MSD. That DOES impact his ability to play.

Sloane and Seed were both put on the inactive list in May, "for the remainder of the season". I can't find the rules for the inactive list anywhere, but I'm guessing it's always "until the end of the season" unlike the LTI list? And there's no mechanism for a player to come off the inactive list, and resume playing, before the end of the season?

Which means, as you say, if he's put (back) on the IA list, that's it for 2023 (and probably for good). But not if he goes on the LTI list.

 

[Vader]

Sloane and Seed were both put on the inactive list in May, "for the remainder of the season". I can't find the rules for the inactive list anywhere, but I'm guessing it's always "until the end of the season" unlike the LTI list? And there's no mechanism for a player to come off the inactive list, and resume playing, before the end of the season?

Which means, as you say, if he's put (back) on the IA list, that's it for 2023 (and probably for good). But not if he goes on the LTI list.

Correct, as far as I know.

** I wasn't even aware of the "Inactive List", until the club put Gibbs on it after his retirement.

 

[arrowman]

** I wasn't even aware of the "Inactive List", until the club put Gibbs on it after his retirement.

Well, I've been looking, and the "Inactive List" doesn't appear in either of the AFL's Rules or Regulations documents online. It seems all we plebs know about it is what's mentioned in the media.

 

[Thetrader15]

Well, I've been looking, and the "Inactive List" doesn't appear in either of the AFL's Rules or Regulations documents online. It seems all we plebs know about it is what's mentioned in the media.

They probably made that up when Geelong needed some more flexibility in their playing list.

 

[Vader]

Well, I've been looking, and the "Inactive List" doesn't appear in either of the AFL's Rules or Regulations documents online. It seems all we plebs know about it is what's mentioned in the media.

Nothing in the CBA either.

 

[Rags_118]

I had assumed that we are now effectively 37/2/2 and needing to delist/rookie Seeds to be able to take a 2nd pick in the National Draft. This is following our retirement/trades/de-listings and the required upgrade this year of Strachan and Butts who were picked up as Rookies in 2018 (2019-22 4 seasons as rookies).

However, Ben Keays

2

Ben Keays

Age

28

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.1

3star

K

5.8

2star

HB

7.3

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

3.9

5star

G

0.4

3star

D

13.7

3star

K

8.7

3star

HB

5.0

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

3.7

4star

G

0.3

3star

D

13.0

4star

K

4.8

2star

HB

8.2

5star

M

1.4

2star

T

4.4

5star

G

0.4

3star

was selected as a rookie in 2019 (2020-22 3 seasons) and I don’t think he has ever been upgraded to the Senior List. He doesn’t feature in any of the national draft rookie upgrade lists. Presumably he needs to be upgraded next year.

Therefore I assume that we are actually 36/3/2 with 2 main list spots & a single rookie list spots for 38/4/2. Demoting Seeds would only make sense if we want to keep the option of 3 selections in the ND (including the PSD) open.

Am I wrong?

 

[Bearded Clam]

I had assumed that we are now effectively 37/2/2 and needing to delist/rookie Seeds to be able to take a 2nd pick in the National Draft. This is following our retirement/trades/de-listings and the required upgrade this year of Strachan and Butts who were picked up as Rookies in 2018 (2019-22 4 seasons as rookies).

However, Ben Keays was selected as a rookie in 2019 (2020-22 3 seasons) and I don’t think he has ever been upgraded to the Senior List. He doesn’t feature in any of the national draft rookie upgrade lists. Presumably he needs to be upgraded next year.

Therefore I assume that we are actually 36/3/2 with 2 main list spots & a single rookie list spots for 38/4/2. Demoting Seeds would only make sense if we want to keep the option of 3 selections in the ND (including the PSD) open.

Am I wrong?

I think we already upgraded keays a year or two ago..