List Mgmt. 2022 List Management and trading thread

[Scorpus]

I saw this format on the West Coast board and thought it might help understand our current list position

 

[DJ75]

As a quick response to the above ...

• I think Ned has upside, that is what I said ... I still believe that. He is like Sholl in that way - not well-rounded, but has potential in certain attributes that count. Will he step up? I dunno, just think he has improvement in him that the others I mentioned do not.
• I'm not weighing in his first rounder at all. I think he deserves a spot on our list, maybe that sits outside of the best 22 next year ... maybe he sits just inside that.
• I would not play him as a permanent small forward, no. He needs to be a small utility player that can switch into the middle, on the wing and some time up forward,
• I believe other clubs would want him, but trade value is not a good guide to worth. Ben Brown? Peter Wright? Nakia Cockatoo?

Look, I am not arguing that he was a well spent pick when drafted ... I am saying he has some upside - could become an AFL level player - and I would not throw him out with the bathwater.

Any critique of Ned is utterly pointless. His selection comes down to one point - Nicks loves him.
That's it.

 

[thebirdman 24]

He just needs to significantly improve the following and he’ll be a star befitting his 1st Round draft selection.

• speed from below to significantly above average
• strength from poor to average
• ground ball skills from poor to excellent
• kicking skills from weak/poor to above average
• ability to stick a tackle from non-existent to good
• ability to read the play from poor to very good
• improve overhead marking for his size from mediocre to very good

Ned can tackle...assuming he has 2 others to help bring the opponent down.

On SM-A325F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[DJ75]

Ned can tackle...assuming he has 2 others to help bring the opponent down.

On SM-A325F using BigFooty.com mobile app

And didn't give away the free kick to start with

 

[baldandbroke]

Well you made the claim some clubs would, so you are crystal balling anyway so you might as well provide some more insight as to actually who would, that’s obviously going to require you to think and admit besides maybe a couple of scrubber sides, there isn’t anyone wanting a sanfl quality footballer who is short, slow, can’t kick more than 40 and has no poise.

OK GK ... what is the point of me naming teams exactly? Whichever team I named you would claim it was wrong ... even though you have no idea and are just making an uninformed guess like me.

I understand that you think he is a waste of space. That you rate him at the very bottom of our list, I do not.

 

[crow2crow]

As a quick response to the above ...

• I think Ned has upside, that is what I said ... I still believe that. He is like Sholl in that way - not well-rounded, but has potential in certain attributes that count. Will he step up? I dunno, just think he has improvement in him that the others I mentioned do not.
• I'm not weighing in his first rounder at all. I think he deserves a spot on our list, maybe that sits outside of the best 22 next year ... maybe he sits just inside that.
• I would not play him as a permanent small forward, no. He needs to be a small utility player that can switch into the middle, on the wing and some time up forward,
• I believe other clubs would want him, but trade value is not a good guide to worth. Ben Brown? Peter Wright? Nakia Cockatoo?

Look, I am not arguing that he was a well spent pick when drafted ... I am saying he has some upside - could become an AFL level player - and I would not throw him out with the bathwater.

hes not top 26, if you want to keep him as depth beyond that so be it.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Gold Coast last year was at the centre of salary cap space being moved, with Darcy Macpherson

44

Darcy Macpherson

Age

28

Ht

175cm

Wt

76kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.1

4star

K

9.3

4star

HB

5.8

4star

M

3.4

3star

T

4.9

5star

MG

187.8

3star

D

11.0

3star

K

6.3

3star

HB

4.8

3star

M

2.1

2star

T

2.5

3star

MG

137.3

2star

D

11.6

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

2.2

3star

T

4.8

5star

MG

113.6

2star

and pick No.19 offered to North Melbourne to take his salary off the books at the Suns before Macpherson decided to stay at the Suns.

 

[George CantStandYa]

OK GK ... what is the point of me naming teams exactly? Whichever team I named you would claim it was wrong ... even though you have no idea and are just making an uninformed guess like me.

I understand that you think he is a waste of space. That you rate him at the very bottom of our list, I do not.

The point is you’ll struggle to find clubs even though you made the comment and if you do name clubs it will be the bottom clubs which backs up my opinion.

But on to your comment about where you rate him, in our normal side barring injuries, where do you rank him?

 

[1990crow]

View attachment 1512680View attachment 1512683

Gold Coast last year was at the centre of salary cap space being moved, with Darcy Macpherson and pick No.19 offered to North Melbourne to take his salary off the books at the Suns before Macpherson decided to stay at the Suns.

Ah I see. Benefits Collingwood this year to get rid of Grundy so all good.

 

[baldandbroke]

The point is you’ll struggle to find clubs even though you made the comment and if you do name clubs it will be the bottom clubs which backs up my opinion.

But on to your comment about where you rate him, in our normal side barring injuries, where do you rank him?

You'd find clubs at the right price - a price I think means you wait and see. He is no-ones target right now.

2023 - add in Rankine- and we see good progression in Taylor, Nankervis, Cook, Parnell, Pedlar ... at the current Ned levels, I reckon he's around that 25th-30th on our list.

There would need to be decent improvement for him to get back into the 22 in 2023, some of those newbies are moving up at a good clip.

 

[George CantStandYa]

You'd find clubs at the right price - a price I think means you wait and see. He is no-ones target right now.

2023 - add in Rankine- and we see good progression in Taylor, Nankervis, Cook, Parnell, Pedlar ... at the current Ned levels, I reckon he's around that 25th-30th on our list.

There would need to be decent improvement for him to get back into the 22 in 2023, some of those newbies are moving up at a good clip.

So even based by your own ranking, are you surprised then he is rated so poorly by many on here?

He’s not even making your team and we are still young and developing.

 

[baldandbroke]

So even based by your own ranking, are you surprised then he is rated so poorly by many on here?

He’s not even making your team and we are still young and developing.

Yes - I'm surprised posters like you rate him as not being worthy of a list spot.

He is young and developing, or do you think he has no upside at all - no room for improvement?

 

[George CantStandYa]

Yes - I'm surprised posters like you rate him as not being worthy of a list spot.

He is young and developing, or do you think he has no upside at all - no room for improvement?

Just think about what you are saying, you are defending him and yet can’t fit him in a young and developing side next year.

He has been on the list for four years and has played more games than any other young player on our list and despite that development you have him as a depth player. Crikey, he must be a good prospect.

Can he improve, I’ve pretty much covered it early on. He will not get quicker with development, he will not be able to develop to kick over 40 metres. He’s not going to grow. He might eventually develop some poise, but with the other weaknesses in his game, he will never be much more than depth and that being the case, eventually he will find himself off the list if he’s not a regular.

 

[MRB37]

Ah I see. Benefits Collingwood this year to get rid of Grundy so all good.

AFL were ropeable at us and the Saints when we tried a salary dump move a few years ago.

 

[MRB37]

Yes - I'm surprised posters like you rate him as not being worthy of a list spot.

He is young and developing, or do you think he has no upside at all - no room for improvement?

He's the scarecrow, he doesn't have a footy brain and those instincts are not something you can teach. He's all effort and no method, that will massively limit his ceiling and how much he can improve.

 

[Bob Neil]

View attachment 1512680View attachment 1512683

Gold Coast last year was at the centre of salary cap space being moved, with Darcy Macpherson and pick No.19 offered to North Melbourne to take his salary off the books at the Suns before Macpherson decided to stay at the Suns.

I know there's absolutely no media speculation to suggest in any way that this is happening but I still maintain that we should be into Brodie Grundy as a salary dump opportunity. We must have salary room now and for the next 1-3 years and if we were willing to take on his whole salary surely Collingwood would be willing to give us a decent pick (late 1st round) to compensate us.

If we could do that trade AND we were then able to trade out ROB for a 2nd rounder then we've just created two good picks out of thin air and get a major ruck upgrade for probably around $350K per year in salary ($1m for Grundy less estimated $650K we currently pay ROB).

I think we're in the perfect scenario to be in on this salary dump action and I'd be disappointed if we're not.

 

[baldandbroke]

Just think about what you are saying, you are defending him and yet can’t fit him in a young and developing side next year.

He has been on the list for four years and has played more games than any other young player on our list and despite that development you have him as a depth player. Crikey, he must be a good prospect.

Can he improve, I’ve pretty much covered it early on. He will not get quicker with development, he will not be able to develop to kick over 40 metres. He’s not going to grow. He might eventually develop some poise, but with the other weaknesses in his game, he will never be much more than depth and that being the case, eventually he will find himself off the list if he’s not a regular.

What I am saying is I don't understand the hate. Sure he is not a great player by any stretch ... but people are so triggered by him being on our list to the point that he is a regular on posts about who we need to get rid of right now. Like trade for a bag o' peanuts / pay him to play elsewhere / pay out his contract / get him off the list ... you started with no other decent club would want him on their list.

My initial point was that there were plenty of others on our list that deserved some of that venom before Ned. Don't try and rephrase the discussion to being about Ned's kicking depth and his height.

 

[MRB37]

I know there's absolutely no media speculation to suggest in any way that this is happening but I still maintain that we should be into Brodie Grundy as a salary dump opportunity. We must have salary room now and for the next 1-3 years and if we were willing to take on his whole salary surely Collingwood would be willing to give us a decent pick (late 1st round) to compensate us.

If we could do that trade AND we were then able to trade out ROB for a 2nd rounder then we've just created two good picks out of thin air and get a major ruck upgrade for probably around $350K per year in salary ($1m for Grundy less estimated $650K we currently pay ROB).

I think we're in the perfect scenario to be in on this salary dump action and I'd be disappointed if we're not.

From what I was told today, Pies want a 1st and 2nd rounder for Grundy still. They ain't giving him away, no matter what the salary situation is.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

What I am saying is I don't understand the hate. Sure he is not a great player by any stretch ... but people are so triggered by him being on our list to the point that he is a regular on posts about who we need to get rid of right now. Like trade for a bag o' peanuts / pay him to play elsewhere / pay out his contract / get him off the list

IMHO ....there's 2 reasons

a) There's always got to be a Club Scapegoat .....was Doughty, then McKay ....now Mchenry & Jones
I'd suggest most club boards each have a player with a target on his back

b) There's always a slight on the club ....poor coaching, management, drafting & development .....taking aim at Jones, McHenry, and Keays, provides the ammunition to support this ......and that Hamish is a poor recruiter

Sure the club has stuffed a few things ....seriously though, each time, the remedial plan has been exemplary .....post Tippett, post camp, and post seasons where we've finished 12th .....the action has been decisive

I'm no club apologist .....but I am a realist ....I'll kick a head if required ( Burton !!!)

 

[WaynesWorld19]

From what I was told today, Pies want a 1st and 2nd rounder for Grundy still. They ain't giving him away, no matter what the salary situation is.

Muddy scenario ....the trade value will be dependent on how much of Grundy's Contract is worn by COLL .....if they're wearing $300K you'd imagine it'll be a 1st & 2nd, due to his age

 

[MRB37]

Muddy scenario ....the trade value will be dependent on how much of Grundy's Contract is worn by COLL .....if they're wearing $300K you'd imagine it'll be a 1st & 2nd, due to his age

From what I was told they pissed off Melbourne cause the negotiations had been built around the Pies paying $500K of Grundy's salary and getting a 1st and 2nd in return. Now the Pies have come back with only wanting to pay $300K cause they need the extra money, but still want the same compensation.

$200K might not sound like a lot, but probably causes some headaches in the short term for the Demons, especially with the big deals they've given out already.

 

[WeedsMullet84]

From what I was told they pissed off Melbourne cause the negotiations had been built around the Pies paying $500K of Grundy's salary and getting a 1st and 2nd in return. Now the Pies have come back with only wanting to pay $300K cause they need the extra money, but still want the same compensation.

$200K might not sound like a lot, but probably causes some headaches in the short term for the Demons, especially with the big deals they've given out already.

Mind boggling that the Pies think they’ll be getting much for him if someone is paying the majority of his salary. They really haven’t worked out the whole salary dump rules, where value generally goes out the window if you need the cap space


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[Ramify]

Yes - I'm surprised posters like you rate him as not being worthy of a list spot.

He is young and developing, or do you think he has no upside at all - no room for improvement?

I'm a pretty harsh critic of the lad and have been from early days.
From where I'm sitting, he's gone backwards over the past 2 years to a point where he no longer shows the little he did when he first arrived on the scene. That little glimmer that once gave quite a few posters some hope.

I blame complacency for this. A direct result of being gifted games without having to earn them. Crap development and I'm now in doubt he's salvageable to any great degree.

 

[Crow till I die]

From what I was told they pissed off Melbourne cause the negotiations had been built around the Pies paying $500K of Grundy's salary and getting a 1st and 2nd in return. Now the Pies have come back with only wanting to pay $300K cause they need the extra money, but still want the same compensation.

$200K might not sound like a lot, but probably causes some headaches in the short term for the Demons, especially with the big deals they've given out already.

Gee..maybe we could take fritsch off their hands for a nominal pick to help their salary position out to fit Grundy in.

Having said that, if the cost is a 1st and 2nd Collingwood want, can't port somehow reignite their interest as it would hobble them for years lisibg that draft capital and taking on $700k for the next 5 years for a ruck

 

[George CantStandYa]

What I am saying is I don't understand the hate. Sure he is not a great player by any stretch ... but people are so triggered by him being on our list to the point that he is a regular on posts about who we need to get rid of right now. Like trade for a bag o' peanuts / pay him to play elsewhere / pay out his contract / get him off the list ... you started with no other decent club would want him on their list.

My initial point was that there were plenty of others on our list that deserved some of that venom before Ned. Don't try and rephrase the discussion to being about Ned's kicking depth and his height.

The “hate” is the frustration that he is a regular in the team and yet he’s not very good plus what we gave up for him.

If he’s not a regular then yes he doesn’t deserve to be on our list because he is have very few Afl qualities.

Don’t try and rephrase the question? You’re not serious are you? You’ve been talking about his development, well I’ve just pointed out he’s had more development than any other youngster on our list and you’ve just ignored it. His height, lack of speed and his kicking depth absolutely come into it when discussing his value to our team and his likelihood of ever being anything more than a trier.

 

[crow2crow]

I know there's absolutely no media speculation to suggest in any way that this is happening but I still maintain that we should be into Brodie Grundy as a salary dump opportunity. We must have salary room now and for the next 1-3 years and if we were willing to take on his whole salary surely Collingwood would be willing to give us a decent pick (late 1st round) to compensate us.

If we could do that trade AND we were then able to trade out ROB for a 2nd rounder then we've just created two good picks out of thin air and get a major ruck upgrade for probably around $350K per year in salary ($1m for Grundy less estimated $650K we currently pay ROB).

I think we're in the perfect scenario to be in on this salary dump action and I'd be disappointed if we're not.

I love it but it won't happen