List Mgmt. 2022 List Management and trading thread

[Scorpus]

I saw this format on the West Coast board and thought it might help understand our current list position

 

[Mego Red]

ok, maybe I was a bit loose in my language for the trivially pedantic

He’s not delivered at 100 cents on the dollar at any point.

He demanded and got an above market contract from us, exploiting supporter exodus fears and when the market for him fell away due to injury & an inability to play through a tag, proceeded to serially underperform in a massive way throughout

Them’s the facts.

I'd probably say it in a nicer way - but I wouldn't disagree.

 

[Sanders]

I'd probably say it in a nicer way - but I wouldn't disagree.

To be perfectly honest, I don’t have much against him - it’s fully within his right to extract what he can. And he should.

What does raise my hackles a little bit is this mythology around him being a great club man. He’s not. He’s all business. Fine, no problem

Rory Sloane is all about getting his, and if I was advising a young player today I’d probably tell them to do the same. Just don’t tell me about what a great club man he is

He’s good with fans, seems a nice guy, plays the right way, but he’s all business. All the time

 

[George CantStandYa]

To be perfectly honest, I don’t have much against him - it’s fully within his right to extract what he can. And he should.

What does raise my hackles a little bit is this mythology around him being a great club man. He’s not. He’s all business. Fine, no problem

Rory Sloane is all about getting his, and if I was advising a young player today I’d probably tell them to do the same. Just don’t tell me about what a great club man he is

He’s good with fans, seems a nice guy, plays the right way, but he’s all business. All the time

This is exactly how I feel. There is no way we would have wanted to give him the 5th year but he had us by the balls and squeezed.

Even now, there has to be a part of him that knows him not being on the list next year benefits the club, but will this enter his thinking? Unlikely, it’s up to the club behind the scenes to make him understand over the next 4 months that it’s in both their interests for him to retire, once we pay him of course

 

[George CantStandYa]

Slippery Pete

Wrong thread

 

[Sanders]

This is exactly how I feel. There is no way we would have wanted to give him the 5th year but he had us by the balls and squeezed.

Even now, there has to be a part of him that knows him not being on the list next year benefits the club, but will this enter his thinking? Unlikely, it’s up to the club behind the scenes to make him understand over the next 4 months that it’s in both their interests for him to retire, once we pay him of course

He’s never the guy you hear about restructuring his contract to help the team; like say a Tex has.

Tex bleeds for the club, the team, everything - Rory not so much.

That he selfishly wanted to go around as captain again this year bothered me. He’s not a good captain, never was, and here he was not wanting to give it up when time was getting past him.

Rory is a popular player, rightly so. Everybody likes how he goes about it, but cut him open and he bleeds Rory

 

[Gtowncrow]

To be perfectly honest, I don’t have much against him - it’s fully within his right to extract what he can. And he should.

What does raise my hackles a little bit is this mythology around him being a great club man. He’s not. He’s all business. Fine, no problem

Rory Sloane is all about getting his, and if I was advising a young player today I’d probably tell them to do the same. Just don’t tell me about what a great club man he is

He’s good with fans, seems a nice guy, plays the right way, but he’s all business. All the time

It's the difference between amateur and professional sport.

 

[Golumless]

Don’t think we would. He’s already out of the midfield, in a years time we our team we should have developed further, what are we going to do, drop one of the players close to 50 games for Sloane? If we did, Nicks should resign.

Also depends on injuries/where we are at.

I could easily imagine a scenario Sloane comes back for the second half of the year if we're not on finals pace. Or Nick's and co. have run out of patience with a McHenry/Rowe/Murphy (if we're unwilling to keep him as a midfield rotation) type.

 

[George CantStandYa]

Also depends on injuries/where we are at.

I could easily imagine a scenario Sloane comes back for the second half of the year if we're not on finals pace. Or Nick's and co. have run out of patience with a McHenry/Rowe/Murphy (if we're unwilling to keep him as a midfield rotation) type.

He would have already taken up a list spot and hampered our list management by then.

As for the examples you've given, none justify playing him, both impact on the development of our squad in a rebuild.

 

[Interloperer]

Sloane is a great of the club, but is in my opinion the worst captain the club has had. He's the worst combination of the McGuinness/Goodwin (It's "his turn") and Van Berlo (Weird coach's pet yes-man) eras.

At his early 2017 peak, on top his onball work, he was scoring more than ever. There was talk of increased forward stints as he ages, bringing his wisdom and nouse to the role. In reality the opposite happened and as his form dropped, he regressed into a strictly on ball player who rarely got forward.

Also, not enough is said about how his ascent to power coincided with team morale collapsing and the squad falling apart.

That said, I think there are coach's with a healthy tinge of antagonism that could have used Sloane's self-pride and natural abilities to get the best out of him, in a new role or otherwise. With somebody other than Nicks I would even still consider that possible now with ACL injury recovery ahead of him.

Either way I hope he plays out his contract and goes out kicking and screaming. The fans and club need to have it hammered into them that the majority of good players are looking out for themselves first and do their work in exchange for money. And the tail-end of such a contract is a part of the package that comes with that.

He would have already taken up a list spot and hampered our list management by then.

As for the examples you've given, none justify playing him, both impact on the development of our squad in a rebuild.

"Being deep into year 4 (year 6 by the official AFC timeline) of a rebuild and still not awarding positions in the side on merit" is not a compatible position with "We extended the contract of the coach because of the amazing job he's doing"

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

Also, not enough is said about how his ascent to power coincided with team morale collapsing and the squad falling apart.

Nah, he got made captain because we were sliding backwards. He was the clear number 2 during all of Walker’s captaincy, when we were making finals.

 

[LoBu]

Sloane is a great of the club, but is in my opinion the worst captain the club has had. He's the worst combination of the McGuinness/Goodwin (It's "his turn") and Van Berlo (Weird coach's pet yes-man) eras.

At his early 2017 peak, on top his onball work, he was scoring more than ever. There was talk of increased forward stints as he ages, bringing his wisdom and nouse to the role. In reality the opposite happened and as his form dropped, he regressed into a strictly on ball player who rarely got forward.

Also, not enough is said about how his ascent to power coincided with team morale collapsing and the squad falling apart.

That said, I think there are coach's with a healthy tinge of antagonism that could have used Sloane's self-pride and natural abilities to get the best out of him, in a new role or otherwise. With somebody other than Nicks I would even still consider that possible now with ACL injury recovery ahead of him.

Either way I hope he plays out his contract and goes out kicking and screaming. The fans and club need to have it hammered into them that the majority of good players are looking out for themselves first and do their work in exchange for money. And the tail-end of such a contract is a part of the package that comes with that.


"Being deep into year 4 (year 6 by the official AFC timeline) of a rebuild and still not awarding positions in the side on merit" is not a compatible position with "We extended the contract of the coach because of the amazing job he's doing"

To be fair at a personal level he hasn't had a run at it due to constant injuries since Nicks took over.

As a leader, I doubt anybody else would have prevented us finishing last in 2020*

On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[GreyCrow]

How long are LTI breaks? I thought it was a 12 week injury was considered LTI.

Or has it changed to 6 weeks?

Thinking Sloane stays on our list next year as per contract. This year fits the 1st criteria.

His injury given a full 12 months takes him into round 6 next year.

Opportunity to have a look at a few players as LTI replacements for this year next year

 

[Vader]

How long are LTI breaks? I thought it was a 12 week injury was considered LTI.

Or has it changed to 6 weeks?

Thinking Sloane stays on our list next year as per contract. This year fits the 1st criteria.

His injury given a full 12 months takes him into round 6 next year.

Opportunity to have a look at a few players as LTI replacements for this year next year

Has always been an 8 week minimum, unless it's been changed recently? Note that this is how long the player must remain inactive (unable to play at any level) after they are placed on the list - weeks already spent on the sideline don't count.

Sloane is gone for the rest of the season, so he definitely qualifies.

If we placed Seedsman on the list today, he wouldn't be able to play at any level until R15. I suspect his concussion issues are serious enough to justify that... but the club no doubt has more information than I do.

 

[Vader]

My apologies, it turns out that it's only 6 weeks. Here's the relevant section from the 2021 AFL Rules document, and I doubt it would have changed in 2022:

26.4 Duration on Long Term Injury List
(a) An injured Player transferred to a Club’s Long Term Injury List is ineligible to play in the AFL Competition or a State Body competition for a minimum period of 6 weeks, commencing from the day on which the General Counsel gives his approval for the injured Player to transfer to the Club’s Long Term Injury List.
(b) A Club is unable to transfer an injured Player to its Long Term Injury List, after 2.00pm on the Thursday following Round 18 of the Home and Away Matches in each year (or after such other time determined by the General Counsel).

 

[Interloperer]

Nah, he got made captain because we were sliding backwards. He was the clear number 2 during all of Walker’s captaincy, when we were making finals.

Not saying he caused, or even necessarily contributed to it. But it's a process that arguably peaked in 2019 when he was co-captain, and is ongoing. The playing list has burnt down around him and he seems quite content to roll with it.

Also second-in-charge/vice-captain is a different role to captain. You can be good at one and not necessarily the other. Useless Adelaide coach Robert Shaw is the same person as premiership assistant Robert Shaw.

To be fair at a personal level he hasn't had a run at it due to constant injuries since Nicks took over.

As a leader, I doubt anybody else would have prevented us finishing last in 2020*

On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Definitely. His best is still comfortably in the top 5/10 in the squad. But he's objectively not delivering his best, and in my opinion was not delivering the least-worst performance possible with his injuries. Because he is not being challenged appropriately by the coaching staff.

I also think he's rationalised his inability to break a tag as "self-sacrifice". easy to believe in 2017 when the moment he isn't tagged, he's ripping the game apart again. Less so with every year since.

As a leader I don't think he contributes anything notable, good or bad. I've said before that I think the club only understands 'rebuilding' in the cargo cult sense and only really wants the lower onfield expectations it brings. As a result, all they want out of a captain is a good babysitter. Similarly, I think Sloane feels that captaincy is a role he's earned from his past performances (again, fine if he can do the job) and doesn't feel any need to rock the boat. It's an ideal match.

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

Not saying he caused, or even necessarily contributed to it. But it's a process that arguably peaked in 2019 when he was co-captain, and is ongoing. The playing list has burnt down around him and he seems quite content to roll with it.

Which process? Turning over the list doesn’t really have much to with Sloane.

Also second-in-charge/vice-captain is a different role to captain. You can be good at one and not necessarily the other. Useless Adelaide coach Robert Shaw is the same person as premiership assistant Robert Shaw.

Definitely. His best is still comfortably in the top 5/10 in the squad. But he's objectively not delivering his best, and in my opinion was not delivering the least-worst performance possible with his injuries. Because he is not being challenged appropriately by the coaching staff.

I also think he's rationalised his inability to break a tag as "self-sacrifice". easy to believe in 2017 when the moment he isn't tagged, he's ripping the game apart again. Less so with every year since.

As a leader I don't think he contributes anything notable, good or bad. I've said before that I think the club only understands 'rebuilding' in the cargo cult sense and only really wants the lower onfield expectations it brings. As a result, all they want out of a captain is a good babysitter. Similarly, I think Sloane feels that captaincy is a role he's earned from his past performances (again, fine if he can do the job) and doesn't feel any need to rock the boat. It's an ideal match.

I partially agree with this lat part, feels like Sloane is still captain because they’re not sure the next guy in line ready. I wouldn’t say it’s about not rocking the boat.

 

[LoBu]

As a leader I don't think he contributes anything notable, good or bad. I've said before that I think the club only understands 'rebuilding' in the cargo cult sense and only really wants the lower onfieldThat's expectations it brings. As a result, all they want out of a captain is a good babysitter. Similarly, I think Sloane feels that captaincy is a role he's earned from his past performances (again, fine if he can do the job) and doesn't feel any need to rock the boat. It's an ideal match.

I'm not in disagreement broadly, but I would suggest he is widely respected as a leader within the playing group, and he has overseen a cultural change and led during a rebuild that appears to be going well off field (rentention) and on field (game plan and effort with the promise of more wins).

There's not much more we can ask for right now is there?

Next year I don't think he will be captain, but his legacy may be his role in beginning the next 'era' for AFC, leaving the club in a better position than when he took over.



On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Interloperer]

Which process? Turning over the list doesn’t really have much to with Sloane.

Turning over the list involved in form players being frozen out of the squad and/or established players being set up to fail by a broken matchday strategy. Walker would have likely advocated for the players or at least tried to keep them playing well together.

I partially agree with this lat part, feels like Sloane is still captain because they’re not sure the next guy in line ready. I wouldn’t say it’s about not rocking the boat.

I think 'not rocking the boat' is just how Sloane operates. Which is why Sloane got overlooked for Walker when Walsh wanted someone to unite and galvanise an under-performing squad into performing at the level they were capable of. But now that the situation is "Look this is going to suck, just don't make it any harder than necessary," He's first choice.

I'm not in disagreement broadly, but I would suggest he is widely respected as a leader within the playing group, and he has overseen a cultural change and led during a rebuild that appears to be going well off field (rentention) and on field (game plan and effort with the promise of more wins).

There's not much more we can ask for right now is there?

Next year I don't think he will be captain, but his legacy may be his role in beginning the next 'era' for AFC, leaving the club in a better position than when he took over.



On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

I think it's far from settled whether either of those things are going well. Regardless Sloane will be long gone by the time that judgement is assessed

Also, he became co-captain after a year the club was expected to contend for the premiership but was prevented from doing so largely by (self-inflicted) injury crises and off-ield issues. He became sole captain after a year the club only missed the finals on the last day. AFC are a long way from being close to that good again.

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

Turning over the list involved in form players being frozen out of the squad and/or established players being set up to fail by a broken matchday strategy. Walker would have likely advocated for the players or at least tried to keep them playing well together.

I think 'not rocking the boat' is just how Sloane operates. Which is why Sloane got overlooked for Walker when Walsh wanted someone to unite and galvanise an under-performing squad into performing at the level they were capable of. But now that the situation is "Look this is going to suck, just don't make it any harder than necessary," He's first choice.



I think it's far from settled whether either of those things are going well. Regardless Sloane will be long gone by the time that judgement is assessed

Also, he became co-captain after a year the club was expected to contend for the premiership but was prevented from doing so largely by (self-inflicted) injury crises and off-ield issues. He became sole captain after a year the club only missed the finals on the last day. AFC are a long way from being close to that good again.

Tex was still co-captain in late 2019 when the fractures in the group peaked. And the rumours would indicate Tex was more responsible for our our downward spiral than Sloane.

 

[Mego Red]

So - Fogarty trades.

You would have to think that Collingwood would be curious. Perhaps for one of Poulter, Arlo Draper or Cooper Murley?

 

[George CantStandYa]

You’d hope with our cap space we are into a target or two, we’ve seen how much value Dawson has provided. But if we go a mid, with our stacked midfield, how do we develop Berry, Schoenberg, Pedlar and co?

 

[GreyCrow]

You’d hope with our cap space we are into a target or two, we’ve seen how much value Dawson has provided. But if we go a mid, with our stacked midfield, how do we develop Berry, Schoenberg, Pedlar and co?

Move Crouch on

 

[Golumless]

You’d hope with our cap space we are into a target or two, we’ve seen how much value Dawson has provided. But if we go a mid, with our stacked midfield, how do we develop Berry, Schoenberg, Pedlar and co?

Same question if we draft a mid with a 1st round pick.

The cream will rise and find a way to force themselves in, and if we're doing really well, even our discards will have solid careers.

 

[ABAB]

Move Crouch on

Agree, he is still contracted until next year so will be willing to pay some of his salary as a sweetener (maybe this was our list management strategy by offering him only 2 years after being a FA). He will be a very handy inside midfielder for a premiership contender who would have a late first rounder this year.

 

[ams4crows]

With the list situation at the moment we'll be lucky to take two picks in this year's draft.